Is it really too much to ask...

"cletus44 aka Clayton Seams" (cletus44) 06/29/2014 at 08:58 • Filed to: None

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...to have ONE car comparison where the American car is up against equally priced rivals? I hate reviews where the American car is always the underdog just because it has equal power to cars costing $50k more. I want to see a review where they pit a Corvette Z06 against the best EQUALLY PRICED competition out there. /rant.

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 06/29/2014 at 08:59

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Shit like this. I mean think about what each of those other manufacturers offers for a paltry $60,000.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 06/29/2014 at 09:00

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If you're looking at european reviews it is too much to ask. The american car is always the underdog and is always "good value, but unrefined and not suited for europe" no matter what it is.

PS9 > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 06/29/2014 at 09:00

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Real buyers will not inconvenience their choices in this way. It's not the rest of the world's fault that the pickings for new cars from 'murica get slim past the $100k bracket.

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 06/29/2014 at 09:02

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Preach man. Always had this complaint as well.

E92M3 > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 06/29/2014 at 09:12

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Usually these comparisons are showing what a bargain the American car is. You can do a comparison dollar wise in your head. An Audi A5 with a few options is $60k. Doing a performance comparision between an A5 and a corvette is just silly. A base cayman starts above $60k.

davedave1111 > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 06/29/2014 at 09:19

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Thing is, no-one over here would buy a Corvette for any reason other than value for money due to the dreadful interior and general build quality. If you're only spending two-thirds of the price of an R8 to get a Corvette, then fine, no problem that you'll only keep it a year or two instead of three or four years. When you put the Corvette up against something similarly priced, though, you have to be willing to trade a hell of a lot of stuff for the Corvette's straight-line speed.

Bear in mind that a base model Corvette is (roughly) a price-competitor with things like the Mazda MX-5 and the Toybaru twins and you start to see the problem. In all respects other than the astonishing engine, the Corvette is behind its price-competitors.

On top of all that, with European fuel prices to contend with, the only people who can afford to run a Corvette can afford supercars.

Mark - Sixpots None The Richer > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 06/29/2014 at 09:32

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Take it as a compliment that there's no equally priced competition. The combination of a huge engine and a - I mean this in a very neutral way - basic sportscar is just not available in Europeland. At least from the well known and established manufacturers. There's always the odd firm building cars on a chicken farm somewhere.

One of the reasons might be that taxes and gas prices make V8 ownership virtually impossible for "normal" people.

Yes, of course you can buy cars with big engines over here. But people who can afford to finance the maintance and running costs aren't really interested in a bang for the buck bargain the Corvette is. And let's not forget: After you have imported a Corvette on your own, they are not as cheap and tempting anymore. Combine this with the lack of dealerships and support and they aren't really a sensible choice.

More importantly, and you don't have to understand this, the Corvette has a very questionable image in Germany (maybe Europe in general). It's perceived as an unreliable, not really sporty pimp-mobile.

You know how image works. Those stereotypes might be 30 years old, but the average "rich guy" who is interested in a sportscar will have those in mind and walks straight into the Porsche dealership.

You should also never forget that a lot of people are buying cars not only for themselves, but for the people who see them driving it. Image is very important. The Corvette's image is not at all comparable to for example a Porsche.

The new Corvette is a step in the right direction and don't be fooled by your own stereotypes because in Europe we're not only watching Top Gear. The last two Corvette generations were showered with very well-meaning reviews. Therefore I think said image will change...slowly.

Svend > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 06/29/2014 at 09:34

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The thing is when TGUK, etc... do a comparison yes it's matched engine and performance wise but if you match price here in the U.K., say a Corvette Z06 at £60,000 and match it with a similar priced Porsche, say a Porsche Cayman GTS at £55,397.

Prices in the U.K. will differ a lot compared to the same cars in the U.S. where a Corvette Z06 can be had for $53,000 and the Porsche Cayman GTS at $75,200.

Comparisons will never match on price for every market but engine and performance can still be matched similarly.

Eazy-O > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 06/29/2014 at 09:56

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If you're talking about US journalists, fine. I have nothing to say. I guess you, the journalist market, need to show them this. Maybe pour your rant into an email and write to publications instead of casting it off into a void.

Now, as for Europe... Have you seen prices? A Stingray starts at 69.990 EUR, which converts to 95.340 USD.

Add 3k EUR and you're rolling in a 340HP Cayman GTS. Lotus has odd pricing, but you can get a 350HP Exige S for that kinda dosh. It won't change much. Corvette will rape them in straight line speed, the Cayman will get praise for its engineering and build quality, while Lotus will take the handling and frugality cake.

Yay, obvious? What you want is a European Corvette to compete with, and we simply don't make those. You guys re-invented the Corvette to be the underdog. When people hit midlife crises around here, they buy a used Porsche or a small boat or a motorbike. Or just blow it on a load of/blow their load on teenage hookers. :D

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > Eazy-O 06/29/2014 at 10:03

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I actually am an auto journo but I don't get to pick what comparos we run. I understand the price differential in Europe but in the US, it would be nice to see dollar to dollar comparisons more often.

And I'd be totally okay with an Exige/Cayman/Corvette comparo but it just always seems that they're up against $130k 911's and R8's.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 06/29/2014 at 10:16

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That's the point. There is NO equally priced competition. The Vette has always been the bargain sportscar. To have a fair chance, the Euros must be priced much higher to get the same power and performance.

It's entirely because of the cultures and economies of the respective continents. Gas is super expensive in Europe so their cars aren't actually all that fast compared to equally priced cars here. To get the same performance you have to pay huge amounts of money over there.

As others have said, it's really a compliment that the Vette is so fast for so little money.

djmt1 > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 06/29/2014 at 10:28

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I'm confused, you're moaning about a lack of price comparisons for American reviews but then show British review as evidence.

Also Price isn't everything.

Also Also isn't there an unwritten rule among journalists not to criticize each other's work?

Nobi > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 06/29/2014 at 11:07

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On the flip side, I'd much rather see similar cars reviewed rather than similarly priced. If it was just based on price, you could potentially have a Mercedes E class, a Ford F250 dually, and a Corvette all competing. Apples to oranges to walnuts. While I agree with what Top Gear was trying in the leading picture, they severely skewed this test to the BMW and Nissan. Of course the M6 is fast and comfortable. It's got just about every option BMW can throw on a 6 series. The ZL1 is more it's type. The GTR is a technological wonder. It'll turn a mediocre driver into a good one, and a good driver into a scary fast one. The Z/28 is a bare bones, barely street legal, track car. So find some things like it that you can compare it to. I'd compare it to a M3 GTR, CLK black, and a TVR if those were still around. They seem more within the same boundaries of what a Z/28 is and what it's trying to be.

cletus44 aka Clayton Seams > djmt1 06/29/2014 at 11:10

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The pictures just popped up on my facebook and it happened they were British. I'm not criticizing their work, these are well done reviews and the cars are quasi-comparable in performance but I'd like to see comparisons with cars of equal price.

djmt1 > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 06/29/2014 at 11:15

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Thanks for the clarification.

I get what you are saying but it seems that car reviews aren't really buying guides anymore and more bench marking setting and ego massaging.

Redd, the RX-7 that could > cletus44 aka Clayton Seams 06/29/2014 at 11:56

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They do that because if they did what you are suggesting, the American car would almost certainly win.