"SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman" (dasborgen)
06/23/2014 at 10:54 • Filed to: BMW, M3, TUrbo
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"SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman" (dasborgen)
06/23/2014 at 10:54 • Filed to: BMW, M3, TUrbo | 6
| 27 |
S55B30 power is vastly underrated
Hey guys,
Was able to get our new 2015 M3 over to the dyno today for a little test and tune action. It has around 100 miles on the clock... Fuel is 91 octane + a can of octane booster to bring octane up to around 93 octane.
To start I did a few baseline runs in 4th and 5th gear. The best of which was 427rw in 5th gear. Boost was around 19.5psi peak, timing around 9 degrees up top, and I was fairly disappointed with the output. I'm not sure what might be holding back power but we'll have to dive in to that as we get further in to the R&D process.
Not satisfied I decided to whip up a Stage1 alpha tune and after some work had boost up to 24psi and power up to a more respectable ~480rw.
Work continues!
Battery Tender Unnecessary
> SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
06/23/2014 at 10:57 |
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Steve Dinan is on record saying you can increase a BMW's power by 25% without changing anything internal and get 100k miles out of it before it needs major work, says that's held true since he started. It's what BMW leaves on the table to make them reliable "long term"
Party-vi
> SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
06/23/2014 at 11:00 |
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Look, it's not that BMW is underrating their engines, it's that BMW's EfficientDynamics has gotten drivetrain loses down to 1% :3
AutoSavant
> Battery Tender Unnecessary
06/23/2014 at 11:03 |
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That's probably to keep the transmission from needing major work before the warranty is up. Those engines are built to withstand way more than the trans can handle reliably.
macanamera
> SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
06/23/2014 at 11:07 |
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Makes no sense. He was "disappointed" that it dyno'd 427 to the wheels stock?
Chris Clarke
> SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
06/23/2014 at 11:27 |
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Octane Booster incorrectly calculated. One point of octane boost equals .1 not 1. Should try actual 93, which I assume is what the manufacturer calls for anyway.
BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
06/23/2014 at 11:41 |
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Hmmm, so that would equate to roughly 491bhp at the flywheel stock.
The only thing that concerns me is that it was done on 93 octane equivalent. If the standard fuel is 91 octane, the engine might adjust the advance to make more power, thus not giving an accurate reading of what the engine produces under stock conditions.
Cixelsyd
> macanamera
06/23/2014 at 11:43 |
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Seriously. It's rated by BMW for 425 HP and it's putting 427 to the wheels and he is disappointed?
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macanamera
> Cixelsyd
06/23/2014 at 12:03 |
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Doesn't make sense. Something about this is false.
Leon711
> BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
06/23/2014 at 12:08 |
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Something ain't right, it's still rated at 425hp in the UK where I'm sure BMW will ask for 98 octane minimum, what will it do on BP ultimate 102?
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Cixelsyd
> macanamera
06/23/2014 at 12:20 |
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What is false is the factory HP estimate. BMW has a long and well known reputation for intentionally under rating the HP output of their cars. Though this figure does seem like a pretty big understatement, even for BMW
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macanamera
> Cixelsyd
06/23/2014 at 12:23 |
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No, I don't buy the guys attitude. When a car is rated at 425, and you dyno it and get 427, you aren't disappointed. Ever. That does not make sense.
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Cixelsyd
> BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
06/23/2014 at 12:23 |
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93 octane isn't exactly some experimental race fuel though. It comes straight from the pump as the Premium at the gas stations I go to. I fill up on it once a week. As long as it's being done on street gas with no modifications to the engine, I would consider it to be "stock" performance.
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BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> Cixelsyd
06/23/2014 at 12:26 |
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You're right, it's a tiny change, but it's a change from BMW's stock specs regardless.
If it specified 93 octane, that would be different.
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BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> Leon711
06/23/2014 at 12:28 |
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True, although fuel in the US is rated on a slightly different scale to ours. Our 95 octane is roughly equivalent to their 91, and our 98 is their 93.
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Leon711
> BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
06/23/2014 at 12:31 |
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so it is, I guess it's just another thing where the americans don't follow the rest of the world.
Manuél Ferrari
> macanamera
06/23/2014 at 23:06 |
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Also is it a good idea to do dyno runs and experiment with tuning a car that has 100 miles on it? Shouldn't you break it in first?
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macanamera
> Manuél Ferrari
06/23/2014 at 23:19 |
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Well, that goes without saying. Full gear dyno runs in a car w 100 miles on it is just dumb in the first place, of course.
That and the "can of octane booster" thing. Who are these guys?
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Manuél Ferrari
> macanamera
06/24/2014 at 00:32 |
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I have no idea who they are! Where do they get the money to do this to a brand new M3? The poor car should have gone to a loving owner.
PS9
> Manuél Ferrari
06/24/2014 at 01:51 |
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For a small fee, I can 'liberate' the car. Just mail it to P.O. Box 212, and you will never be connected to anything. Untraceable. I have never been caught.
For an additional and considerably larger fee, I can liberate the car's captors of their remaining time on this earth. No remains will be found.
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Manuél Ferrari
> PS9
06/24/2014 at 01:52 |
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These services seem professional and reasonable!
I will keep them in mind if I ever need to make someone go for a really long walk
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PS9
> Manuél Ferrari
06/24/2014 at 01:56 |
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Just keep in mind that I don't work sundays. Never have I missed mass or communion, and I'm not gonna start.
What? Contract killers are people too.
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Manuél Ferrari
> PS9
06/24/2014 at 01:57 |
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That's totally reasonable. You need time for church and for family.
wabbalosthiskey
> macanamera
06/24/2014 at 01:59 |
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No it's not at all. The only thing that needs "breaking in" in a modern roller or OHC engine is the piston rings, which happens in minutes from startup (read, before it hits a dealer lot), not hundreds of miles...And there is no better way and place to do it than on a dyno. Hot and cold, pressure and vacuum. By going overly easy on a new set of rings, you allow the material to glaze over and prevent it from ever seating properly which results in poor ring seal for the life of the motor. Same exaggerated thing happens with washing the cylinders down with excess fuel which trying to fire a new motor; at a certain point of trying they will almost never seat unless you can dry things out so much they virtually grind themselves down and bed in. Seen that happen many times over the years.
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PS9
> Manuél Ferrari
06/24/2014 at 01:59 |
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Church, yes. Family, no. Not anymore, anyway.
Don't ask.
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macanamera
> wabbalosthiskey
06/24/2014 at 09:00 |
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Sorry, this is not true. I recently had a brand new M3, and BMW gives you detailed break-in procedures through 1200 miles I think. Why would they do that if it was not necessary?
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wabbalosthiskey
> macanamera
06/24/2014 at 11:06 |
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To desensitize new owners for a month while they get used to things. It's sort of funny but I believe it to be very true. Had lots of new cars including BMWs. There are a number of things that certainly need to be broken in in order to prolong the life and maximize functionality (ie. brake pads), but engines aren't one. Fire it, bring it up to temperature (the most important thing you can do for an engine, old or new), and let it rip.
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macanamera
> wabbalosthiskey
06/24/2014 at 14:38 |
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Source? I want to believe this.