I for one...

"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura)
06/03/2014 at 14:11 • Filed to: None

Can't wait for the next generation, Alpha-based Camaro. It's going to be sub-3500lbs and already has the IRS all of the pony-fans have been clamoring after for so long.

DISCUSSION (45)

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 14:16

You're just loving these jabs at the Mustang, aren't you?

yamahog > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
06/03/2014 at 14:19

You mean "FATSTANG?" What about the "WHALLENGER?"

/fatjokes

spanfucker retire bitch > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 14:19

Despite the somewhat inflammatory post, the Alpha based Camaro should be exceptional as it should mean a ton of weight loss.

Also, as important as IRS is, the Camaro has a leg up on the other pony cars for a different reason. Optional Magnetic Shocks.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > yamahog
06/03/2014 at 14:22

I'm kinda enjoying it though... I love the Mustang but it's nice to give it some shit after the wringing the Camaro got.

That being said, I still want a 2015 'Stang.

Victorious Secret > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 14:26

The Camaro having the IRS before didn't really mean much until GM put some serious engineering into the setup and started offering magnetic shocks.

Just because it has IRS doesn't mean it would be good.

The same way that the Mustang being LRA didn't stop it from chomping up the ass of a M3 on the hallowed track where all Jalopbros spend their time.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 14:29

already has the IRS all of the pony-fans have been clamoring after

Or, y'know, not. Unless these were perhaps the "pony fans" that debate the relative merits of Applejack and Twilight Sparkle.

Contention: the "just fine as it is" argument has been compelling since the earliest days of the Stang, when IRS was first experimented with, only losing critical mass *50 years later*.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
06/03/2014 at 14:30

I didn't take quite so much joy in it until someone made a whole reply post telling me to shut my cakehole. I have a lot of love for the older Mustang (particularly the 05-10) and am one of the few people that didn't bitch about the LRA. I also didn't complain about the Camaro's weight, because I understood it was a different car from the Mustang. Now that people are seeing the outcome of their whining, and trying to sweep the problems under the rug, I can't help myself.

It's like you said, it's just funny that the Camaro got so much crap, yet all the Mustang guys are clamoring to dispute that it's happening to the Mustang now too.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > yamahog
06/03/2014 at 14:31

HEY!

No fatshaming here. This is a safe place where the Mustang can have all of the Pie and Cakes that it wants.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Victorious Secret
06/03/2014 at 14:31

That's... kind of my point...

Axial > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 14:31

As long as it doesn't follow Ford's lead with blanding up the looks (yeah, yeah, opinions man), I am very excited for the Alpha-based Camaro as well.

The new IRS on the 'Stang combined with what has been Chevrolet's advantage in chassis tuning is going to make for one hell of a competition.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
06/03/2014 at 14:33

I mean, it's all anyone could talk about. When the new 2010 came out, everyone was disappointed it had the LRA still. No one has talked about anything else it feels like.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 14:37

If they could cram a V8 in that little thing I don't care what it looks like.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > spanfucker retire bitch
06/03/2014 at 14:38

I'm just saying, there were so many people that continually bashed the Mustang because of the LRA. Probably the same people that wanted to bash the Camaro based on its weight. And the same that give the Toyobaru a hard time due to its lack of power.

Basically it's all bitching about the things that make these cars dynamically different. If the Mustang goes up in weight, but gains the IRS, I really don't see any progress. I see it as Ford admitting that the Camaro was better, and trying to copy it.

The EcoBoost engine isn't enough to undo a whole car or make it a special and unique snowflake. It's just another powertrain option.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Axial
06/03/2014 at 14:40

I don't know about bland, but they don't look as special, that's for sure. I think it's too much of a copy-paste-marginalize type of thing.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 14:41

It's weird: all these US motojournos losing their shit over that, you'd almost think they'd osmotically absorbed some "IRS IS NEEEEDED.... BRAAAINS" from the Euro ones. I'm unconvinced the US pony car market as such ever had that inclination beyond just a fringe minority, but if IRS means expanding that market, then... fine. I'm just not convinced it's not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
06/03/2014 at 14:43

It's the ATS platform, and I don't know what's possible with it. I don't think the ATS is getting any V8s, but I don't know what the future GM engine lineup looks like either. I would really like a scaled down pushrod with all the trimmings. Think like the Silverado's 5.3, but with a little less stump-pulling, and little bit more revving.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
06/03/2014 at 14:48

Well, here's been my observation. Every person that has ever said "I'll never buy a Mustang as long as they have a live rear axle" probably wasn't going to buy one anyways. As has been pointed out to me several times, the LRA was never a track problem as much as it was a daily driver problem. This kind of switch over is bascially Ford throwing in the towel, and for people that have no real interest in a Mustang.

My favorite sports car makes do with pushrods and leafsprings, so you know I wouldn't be one of the people looking for a change from the Mustang's old setup.

mcseanerson > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 14:53

Every time the new Mustangs weight comes up just make the slightest mention of the next Camaro and watch the Ford fanboys get all riled up.

Axial > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 14:58

The back end looks fantastic, but the front is too smooth and the sides are not shaped enough. It's not really that different from the outgoing model but it is less aggressive and I'm not sure I like that.

The current Camaro, on the other hand, got a whole lot more attractive with that face-lift.

briannutter1 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 15:05

I heard a simple solid axle conversion kit will be in the ford motorsports catalog.

SonorousSpeedJoe > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 15:06

I'm hoping that the weight loss is significant - I don't think that the particular Alpha platform (the short-wheelbase version in the ATS or the long-wheelbase version in the CTS) that the 6th-gen Camaro will be using has been specified, though the SWB platform is more likely since it already underpins the ATS coupe.

Anyhow, I'm surprised that even though the car is due out next year as a 2016 MY vehicle, we have no spy shots of any non-Cadillac test mules.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 15:40

I don't want to be one of those traditionalists that's all "gotta have a v8 or it's not a Camaro".

But it would make me considerably sad if the Camaro wasn't offered with a V8. Even if they resurrected a 305/5.0L for the job. Well. More like a scaled down 5.3L like you said, I don't think we really want the 305 of the 80s back haha.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Axial
06/03/2014 at 16:11

I think you're the first other person I've found that likes the refresh besides me.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > SonorousSpeedJoe
06/03/2014 at 16:14

I honestly doubt that they'll need to test it that much really. The CTS coupe was pretty much copy-paste from the Camaro. I imagine it will be a pretty similar process for the next Camaro from the ATS coupe.

Axial > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 16:14

Really? Most people I know like it a lot better. The tail lights should have never been half-moons, the shape just didn't work with anything else on the car.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
06/03/2014 at 16:22

I'm the same way, but to be completely honest, I never thought the Corvette engine was a good idea. I'd like to see something a bit smaller in the Camaro. A de-stroked 5.3 would be a beaut. Maybe give us 400-410hp and 375-380 tq. If they could keep the it under 3500 lbs and give us that, I'd count it as a win.

And screw the 305 from the 80s. It still makes us GM guys look bad lol.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 16:27

lol i had a feeling you'd feel that way about the old 305.

I loved the Vette Engine in the Camaro. But it should be a higher end model.

Engine line up should hold a V6, a V8, and a Bigger V8!

I think we've come up with a genius plan here to destroke the 5.3. If we can crank the revs up we'll be in great shape.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
06/03/2014 at 16:40

The Camaro has enough designations where they could make a full lineup of engines:

Camaro RS: 2.0T - The "Aluminum Duke"

Camaro LS/LT: 3.6 - Standard Model

Camaro SS: TT3.6 - A 450hp version. I know what you're saying. But stay with me here, because...

Camaro Z-28: 5.0 - Like a destroked LT1, revs to 7k like the original, and puts down around 425hp in a severely lightened body (3200-3300 lbs)

Camaro ZL1 - Find a way to shoehorn the new Z06 engine in the Alpha.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 16:42

I like where you're going with it but the TT3.6 and the 5.0 would seem redundant. You gotta think a LITTLE corporate here. I doubt they would produce a V8 with 25 less hp than a TT V6.

Otherwise I'm with you

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
06/03/2014 at 16:46

I was trying to find a way to incorporate both engines. But being that the ATS-V is supposed to get the TT3.6, it may be a good way to differentiate the two. So 305 in the SS it is!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 16:49

I think it's good for Caddy to have it's own proprietary crazy ass shit under the hood lol.

It's good for them.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
06/03/2014 at 16:52

It is. Plus, don't need to give the Caddy haters any more ammo. With Bimmer going back to a 6 for the M3, this'll afford an apples to apples competition.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/03/2014 at 16:59

god I love the Caddys.

Though not looking anywhere near as good. I want to point out that a bunch of Lincoln's have a 1 up in engines than the Fords and now one pays attention to it.

The trick is building a high end platform as a caddy and letting people beg for it in a chevy, makes it seem more exclusive then. Instead of the other way around like Ford making a good platform then sending it upstream

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
06/03/2014 at 17:05

Exclusivity does a lot of Caddy's job for them. Did you ever read my Lincoln Parked article? It touched on that quite a bit. One of my ideas was even a Focus based sedan, but with so many key differentiators that it was worth the price hike.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/04/2014 at 09:16

I don't think I did, send me the link for it, I'll check it out.

I'm a big fan of Lincoln and Ford, I really think they need to flip things up side down like GM has though.

Everyone wants that new Caddy or GMC....but they'll take the Chevy once it finally shares the platform because it's all they can afford. It's the opposite over at Ford.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
06/04/2014 at 09:31

Here you go man:

http://heresthethingauto.blogspot.com/2013/04/lincol…

And that's why I love cars like the G8. A GXP was literally an M5 killer at Grand Prix prices. Who can say no to that?

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/04/2014 at 09:36

sure as hell not me, I love the G8. gonna go read that, and the new 2015 Lincoln MKC first drive that just got posted on truck yeah!

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
06/04/2014 at 10:21

Let me know what you think.

And I was so happy when I heard they might be adding a manual transmission to the SS next year. A 40k full sizer with a manual and 400hp V8? Sign me up!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/04/2014 at 10:28

Not might they ARE adding it from what I heard.

It had some good points. They didn't add AWD to the Focus ST because...well it doesn't fit under there... I mean you said make the Focus platform a little bigger, but still I think they'd struggle.

The big problem is really this. Lincoln has a lot of cars that get a cooler better engine than their Ford alternative, but no one knows. They have LINCOLN ONLY stuff, but no one talks about it. In that MKC review today they mention the 2.3L EcoBoost, but he doesn't call out that it's MKC exclusive and not available in the Escape. It's a 40-50 HP and Torque boost compared to the Escape and it's not mentioned as a major upgrade.

Disappointing.

The trick is like you said with the CTS getting that ONE CAR that sticks out and you can build a brand off of. They cared the CTS design elements to every car they built and they all did great.

MKC looks great at least!

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
06/04/2014 at 10:34

I love Lincoln's design language. They're really nice looking cars. It's hard to pull off sporty and classy as well as they have. But it's going to come down to how hard they want to push that. The quirky "interview" commercials are terrible. They need something like Acura's old "Let the Drummer Kick" commercial. Maybe rebrand it as 'Not Your Grandfather's Lincoln'.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/04/2014 at 10:39

Yeah. I used to work at their ad agency. I've moved on but I'm still connected to Ford/Lincoln Advertising and now Audi as well.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
06/04/2014 at 10:45

You... Didn't come up with those commercials... Did you?

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/04/2014 at 10:50

lol when I was at their ad agency I was handling International campaigns. My targeted regions for Ford were Central America (not mexico though), Caribbean, Middle East, Southern Africa, and Asia. For Lincoln I had US Islands (Guam, Puerto Rico, Northern Marianas, etc), Middle East and South Korea.

I promise you haven't seen any of my work lol.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
06/04/2014 at 10:53

Damn. So you're kind of a big deal. That's awesome that you get to use your gearheadedness to help with your job!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather
06/04/2014 at 10:55

Haha, I don't know that I'm that big of a deal! But it did seriously help in that last role. Especially because I started focusing on Ford Motorcraft parts sales in all those regions.

It was the first time the Ford people saw an Agency guy who knew all the parts better than they did.

What's terrible is I found out I was being held back from a promotion because I was DDing a Chevy. Got my Mercury Milan DD and BOOM promotion the next week. Agency didn't want me over at the Ford building all the time in my old Blazer.