Sports Activity Coupe: A Niche Too Far?

"Road Magazine" (roadmag)
05/31/2014 at 11:54 • Filed to: Niche, Sports Activity Coupe, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche

At first I liked it, something very different, not seemingly practical, but cool and unexpected. I like it when a major manufacturer goes out on a limb and tries something that doesn't exist on the market and actually follows through with it. I am of course referring to the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! X6. First displayed in 2007 as a concept at the Frankfurt Auto Show in Germany. It hit the showroom floors in 2008 and immediately divided the automotive community.

Still to this day many people still look at it like me. "It looks cool, but why on earth would you purchase one?" It's like saying that you like SUV's, but not how big they are AND don't like small SUV's either. In my mind, the buyer of a vehicle like the X6 has to have some very head strong ideas about only half of their requirements of a vehicle, then be completely ignorant to the other half of said requirements. Yes, there are plenty of cars on the market that are completely useless when it comes to about 80% of what most people require from a car. But those cars are usually quite exceptional when it comes to the few things they do well; a stroll through your local !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! or !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! dealership will highlight this point.

BMW have chosen to see only the positive side of this divided community and release a 4 series model of the Sports Activity Coupe genre that they have created. The !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! debuts this year in line with the rest of the 4 Series Coupe line up. Were the sales numbers from the X6 that convincing? Or are BMW taking the Steve Jobs and Apple approach to car sales. Where Apple would say "There's an App for that" , you could tell a sales person what you're looking for in a vehicle and he would reply "There's a BMW for that" .

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In 2013 BMW only saw around 6,000 units sold across North America and about 8,000 across Europe. The North American Market has stayed fairly consistent since 2008 but the European market saw a whopping 19,000 units sold in 2009 with a steady decline in numbers since then, presumably as the novelty of such a vehicle wears off. The introduction of the smaller X4 seems to make a bit more sense for a vehicle of this nature but when you add !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! with the upcoming MLC/GLC and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! with their Cayenne Coupe this segment is suddenly looking very crowded for the numbers that the X6 is putting up.

Have the manufactures stopped asking us, the consumers, what we would like in a vehicle and just gone ahead, dictating to us niches that no one asked for? I can only imagine the minerals that it took the Marketing Manager at BMW to stand up in a meeting and say "Build it, and they will come" . Forget about what the consumer wants, just give them more options than they thought they needed and no one will ask any questions. "Oooooh! that looks nice, I guess I do need a full size SUV that can't carry 4 people AND a set of golf clubs." Perhaps the goal of the manufactures is to no longer satisfy our desires, but to cover as many bases as possible with the least amount of platforms. Get them in to the showroom and give them zero reason to shop any other brand.

If I may, just for a second, take my "grumpy old man waving his cane at nothing in particular" hat off and look at the up side to all this. It would seem that we are now more spoiled for choice than we have ever been in the market place. There is a vehicle out there to tick nearly any sequence of boxes that you can come up with, and in the X6s case, some that you didn't. Are you buying a vehicle based on what your eyes and your heart tell you? Or are you going in armed with a head full of logic? Seems that the grey area between these two questions is growing ever larger. Not so when it comes to the Sports Activity Coupe. I think that your logic stays safely locked up in the glove box of your current car when you go shopping for one of these.

By Lachlan Wornes @ !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

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DISCUSSION (100)

djmt1 > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 12:00

As far as I'm concerned, manufacturers can have as many niche products as they like. Different People have different tastes. I see people here bitching constantly about the 4 Series Grand Coupe but that is the BMW, I like the most. I hate that brand snobbery is still a thing and that so many people see it as erosion but if you truly love cars you should judge them individually and not on the badge they belong to.

Pdexter > djmt1
05/31/2014 at 12:44

I totally agree with this. I personally don't care the least about the naming craziness and niche models. If anything more choice is always good.

I will say that many of these new cross-overs are quite far from my taste, with 4 of my previous cars being wagons, and so will likely be my next one. Even so, I do actually quite like the looks of some of these cross-overs.

Jay_Hoff > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 12:48

It was taken too far when Lambo scrapped their sexy sedan for one.

Kinja'd!!!

Doctor-G-and-the-wagen > djmt1
05/31/2014 at 12:59

I judge that individual car to be a redundant waste of space.

wbizarre - OEM fetishist > djmt1
05/31/2014 at 13:00

I see the X6 as similar to "personal luxury coupes" of days past. They were enormous on the outside, but didn't use that space efficiently at all. It was all about being in style and making a statement. Crossovers are in style today. People buy crossovers even when they don't need them. Cars like the X6 are catering to that type of customer - the ones who don't buy sport utilities for utility. You don't even have to make up a niche for people to make irrational decisions. I'd say having a big ol' pickup-truck or a Chevy Suburban in a city like Manhattan makes even less sense than an X6.

djmt1 > Doctor-G-and-the-wagen
05/31/2014 at 13:04

I agree but if people want Chelsea Tractors over estate cars, power to them.

Doctor-G-and-the-wagen > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 13:04

Kinja'd!!!

This is the only one that ever made sense, because it manages to be good at one thing (the off roading part) or both (in the form of a rally vehicle) while just about every thing else manages to be useless at all fronts (typically can't off road like a SUV, or can't handle well as an alleged coupe, etc.)

djmt1 > wbizarre - OEM fetishist
05/31/2014 at 13:08

The reasons I have heard from X6 owners is they like the way it looks over the X5 and that they wanted a big car for space and safety.

9brghtn4 > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 13:08

Oh, the name... Sports Activity Coupe, when they're neither sporty or coupes.

flopidiflop > Doctor-G-and-the-wagen
05/31/2014 at 13:09

Which space? It would be new for me if there is a certain limited amount of space for chassis variations.

Aaron James > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 13:15

I completely agree. We need far fewer choices when we are shopping for a car. In fact Manufacturers should only offer 4 models. A Small, Medium, and Large car and a Pickup truck. Choice is ruining a once great import car market.

p00pman > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 13:16

"It would seem that we are now more spoiled for choice than we have ever been in the market place. There is a vehicle out there to tick nearly any sequence of boxes that you can come up with, and in the X6s case, some that you didn't."

Except for a damn compact pickup or ute!

...please don't mention the overcomplicated POS Baja with no real bed from years past.

Mustang 'DontHitTheCrowd' GT > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 13:17

God that merc is ugly.

Joan Barreda Borts 3rd Knee > djmt1
05/31/2014 at 13:22

Completely agree, I personally hate the X6, and even more so the current X3, but I see enough in any given day to realize its a solid car for BMW.

Its different than say the Manual/Auto thing where its more and more like you don't get a choice. With this, if you're not buying it, who gives a *.*

p00pman > 9brghtn4
05/31/2014 at 13:28

or for people who are active, lol.

ThatbastardKurtis > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 13:37

Let's not forget the supposed X2 and there has been intel that BMW has looked at an X4 M as well (which could mean a X3 M as well). This brings into question, "what really is an entry level M?", and "is there such a thing, or can it exist at different levels?"

And what I mean by that is, the upcoming M2 will be the entry level M, but if they produce the X4/X3 Ms and possibly an X2 M, then that would mean that they have an entry level M car and entry level M SAV. Basically, what it seems like is that Mercedes and Audi are scrambling to fill in the niches that BMW creates, but BMW is scrambling to do what Mercedes has been doing, which is making a performance variant of each model. And this may end up hurting BMW, because as they scramble to "M-ify" each vehicle, which they do it differently than Mercedes, they end up diluting the product. And with $$ in their eyes, do they even care, pay attention to that?

Alex from Toronto > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 13:44

"coupe"

Troll is English for Troll > djmt1
05/31/2014 at 13:48

You know, as much as I am annoyed by niche products, I do agree with the 4 Series Gran Coupe.

If they make an M4 version with a manual, I might consider buying it as my first brand-new car.

djmt1 > Troll is English for Troll
05/31/2014 at 13:50

Considering they are just copying Audi and an S5 Sportback exists we can all hope.

evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse) > wbizarre - OEM fetishist
05/31/2014 at 13:56

Except the personal luxury coupe didn't pretend to be anything else. It didn't pretend to be an SUV, or offer any extra practicality. These things just offer compromises. There's less room in the rear than a sedan or an SUV, and it doesn't do anything better than one or the other. It's the car for the person who can't make up their mind. Literally all it offers is a high seating position, which is unfortunately the biggest draw of CUVs.

I know one thing for sure; I hate anyone who buys one of these.

minikupr > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 14:09

Theres actually quite a lot of them at least here in Prague, Czech Republic. Our roads are not the best so it makes sense to have an SUV. For some people, a coupe-like SUV is just more attractive and lets be honest, 99% of the urban owners of SUVs never take them off road anyway.

Axial > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 14:13

None of these are Coupes.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 14:14

I think you answered your own questions.

I don't see the point in getting upset about it...they're trying to increase sales. It has absolutely no effect on the cars you own or the other cars they make. Don't like it, don't buy it. I never got this idea that somehow we have to have irrational hate for good vehicles just because we don't want them. I'm sure they'll move some X4s, and if demand trails off, they'll kill it. Easy as that. It's a free market, that's how it works. No one is forcing you or anyone else to buy one. If it means more money for more M cars, I'm all for it.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Aaron James
05/31/2014 at 14:15

We "need" fewer choices? What? How does that make sense? Perhaps Russia circa 1984 is more your style. I prefer my world to be full of choice, diversity, and for everyone to be able to have whatever the hell they want. Not all of us want the same old 3 things over and over again.

I will never understand this mindset ever.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Mustang 'DontHitTheCrowd' GT
05/31/2014 at 14:16

I think they totally fucked up with that design, the X4 looks great and I love the X6 too...but the MB design is garbage.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > ThatbastardKurtis
05/31/2014 at 14:17

But what is dilution...what does that even mean...Why is it bad for their to be more M cars?

Goofnik > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 14:27

They're selling though. Want a niche that really is too far? This.

Kinja'd!!!

I have seen four different ones around where I work. Three on the same day. It may be the Nissan Murano CrossCabriolet capital of the world.

ranwhenparked > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 14:30

As long as BMW is willing to explore tiny niche markets, how about creating one for a full-size RWD 4-door hardtop with bench seats, column shifter, and a V8? That's one I can get behind.

johntesh > evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse)
05/31/2014 at 14:44

Spot on. These things are awful in bad weather etc. too, particularly snow. While I love the X6 because of how brash it is, I don't understand this segment and view it as lazy more than anything else - then again I view most new SUVs/CUVs as pretty lazy in terms of design.

David > evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse)
05/31/2014 at 14:54

I saw a YouTube interview of BMW USA marketing where she explained they're going after more men with these even-numbers. Apparently the X3 has heavily female-biased sales numbers. So, I guess you hate men.

Aaron James > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
05/31/2014 at 14:54

It went right over your head friend. My comment is dripping with pure sarcasm (tasty!). I don't understand the mindset either, hence my ridiculous comment agreeing with the article that a diverse selection is somehow a bad thing.

SweetZombieJesus > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 15:04

Hmm, I want something that's utterly no good as an SUV, AND something that's utterly no good as a sports sedan. Whatever shall I buy?

Brickman > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 15:10

Telling people you drive a SAC doesn't sound right.

Sheriff Of American Douchetown > minikupr
05/31/2014 at 15:30

Really? Last time I was visiting family in and around Prague, I didn't see many SUVs at all, at least in areas like Praha 1.

Bytemite > Troll is English for Troll
05/31/2014 at 15:36

congrats u want to buy a 3 Series for more money! No wonder bmw is going through with these redundant models, sheeple like u are willing to buy them.

wbizarre - OEM fetishist > evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse)
05/31/2014 at 16:02

Well that sucks. So you hate people who can't make up their mind? Not to rag on pick-ups again, but an indecisive person will buy an enormous truck because maybe, someday they'll need to haul something. Those purchases happen plenty. Besides which, unless you're blind it'll be obvious that the X6 can carry less stuff than an X5. The things the X6 offers are, yes a high seating position, but also presence on the road, arguably better looks than the X5, and standing out. That last one is a very important point for many people. And if you don't need the room in the back, in a way you're being more honest by getting the X6 than the X5. My point is, people buy cars for different reasons, rational or otherwise. God knows we car enthusiasts don't make rational buying decisions.

ThatbastardKurtis > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
05/31/2014 at 16:11

In essence, no it's not bad for "more" M cars...but, what type of M cars? And that is where the "dilution" comes from. BMW enthusiasts and people who are waiting to pick up their f8X M3s/M4s are anxious when many reviewers are saying that the Chassis and Engine don't fit—-the chassis needs a better engine, and waiting with bated breathe for Chris Harris review, because if he likes it, then everybody got it wrong. Apparently due to the "No dogmas" rhetoric M Division will produce no bespoked engines for production cars, but when take existing engines and crank them up to 11. Meanwhile over at AMG, AMG engineers are putting the "Murder" in Murder Mercedes.

M Division is currently testing AWD for the next M5, as AMG, which was strictly RWD for their cars went AWD for the E63 AMG, and "clawing" at Audi...so M Division is following suit.

And then there are the "badge" issues—-everything seems M tuned these days. And in fact, apparently since the M3/M4 sound the best with the M Performance Exhaust, you will have to pay for that as well—-an upgrade (right out of Porsche's book?)

Next, is the Active Sound Design, which is on the M5/M6, M3/M4 and i8 (I don't know about the i3)...and you can't turn it off. Now where does that take us?

There is no M1 successor, yet...even after yrs of toying us with rumors and Concept cars. Maybe the deal with Toyota might help that pan out. And M Division had said that they wish that they could have done like AMG and made their own car—-and now they are on their second one. It shows that who really holds away over M is the finance and marketing guys.

And lastly, the M2...which apparently will use a variant of the N55 putting out 375 hp...with Porsche having developed a 400 hp turbo flat four, and Mecedes having a 355 hp turbo four, I would think that M Division would like to show that they can throw down with the best, and having a turbo 4 would cut down on weight, and the marketing guys could trumpet that and trumpet the hp that M Division can get out of their 4 cylinder and say that M is not "dead". But, apparently, it will not go that way.

Bunty Brown > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 16:18

I'm glad they sell as many cars as they do to fuel development for things like the i8, which is essentially a spaceship. From space.

That said, although I wish more power to anyone who wants to buy this heap, or the similarly useless 4er GC, it's a Pontiac Aztek. You're telling me you would rather have this over a proper 5er sport wagon here in the states? Ugh.

Manuél Ferrari > Jay_Hoff
05/31/2014 at 16:27

That would be the coolest sedan ever.

We need it way more than a Lambo SUV

evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse) > wbizarre - OEM fetishist
05/31/2014 at 17:03

Well yes, I don't like people who can't make up their mind, but not as much as I hate anyone who would buy such a stupid car. And I agree about truck buyers, most don't need 1/10th of the capacity. Most of them could get by fine with a Ranger. But they'd rather have the big, impractical (for their needs) monstrosity because they're insecure. And everyone else pays for their insecurity when they get t-boned by one of those trucks in a sedan. But I digress.

To me, it doesn't have any more presence than an X5. I find an honest car much more attractive than something trying to be everything and nothing all at once. Like the Grand Wagoneer. That's one of the most honest luxury SUVs ever made IMO. Now THAT has presence. A roundy CUV-ish blob doesn't have presence to me. If you don't need the extra room, the most honest choice would be a sedan or hatch, not that thing. You see what I'm saying?

And there is actually a certain rationale to buying enthusiast cars. You want the most performance for your dollar. Of course looks play a role, but when you're buying a car to be your personal toy, that's a lot more reasonable than picking a family car based on looks. A sports car isn't supposed to be practical in the first place, unless it's your DD, in which case a hot hatch or sedan is a reasonable compromise.

evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse) > David
05/31/2014 at 17:06

Well, I am a guy and I still hate it. I know a guy who owns one and it's got tints and blacked out rims (a slushbox too) and he drives it like it's a sports car. Total douchefactory. So yeah, anyone who would buy that stupid thing, male or female is an idiot.

evilfacelessturtle (Hooning a Ford is Domestic Abuse) > johntesh
05/31/2014 at 17:08

Yeah they just take the basic shape of a potato and throw some hard lines and angles on it so it looks "aggressive". But nothing that shape can ever be aggressive, so they just end up ugly and confused.

GTO62 > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 17:20

I think the main reason why anyone would buy these compromised SUVs, both in looks and in utility, is simply to stand out from the rest of the crowd. A friend of a friend bought the fugly BMW 5 GT, after owning the last two generations of 7-series, simply because most of his friends had BMW 7-series and he wanted something different. Had the BMW 6-series Gran Coupe existed then, he would have bought that instead as I'm told he much prefers that design.

In that sense, these niches are important, but they add nothing new or interesting to the car landscape besides looking different (and in my opinion ridiculous). Jeremy C. has it right, even though it costed the BBC a bundle for him to conclude that.

jalop1991 > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 17:29

Apple does an incredibly good job of doing exactly that. "Screw focus groups, people don't have a fucking clue what they want. We're the experts; we'll tell them what they want and why, and then they'll know." Billions and Billions of dollars. /

David Brown > djmt1
05/31/2014 at 18:05

I've never understood the fuss about this and I've never understood why people pick on the X6, except for the boot access high lip issue.

Two words for you.

Alfa Brera.

You only buy this thing for its looks. It isn't fast or economical or built well. It is utterly beautiful to look at.

If I won a shit load of money and wanted to stock my perfect garage I would buy a V6 sv for those days I want to drive a slow, uneconomical, albatross that looks pretty and makes a nice noise.

djmt1 > David Brown
05/31/2014 at 18:12

Two words for you.

Brand Association

The fact that cars like the E39 M5 are related to cars like the X6 burns some people because idiots believe BMWs are driven exclusively by arseholes now and therefore if you drive any BMW even an old one you are an arsehole.

It's tragic but disturbingly popular of this website,

Troll is English for Troll > Bytemite
05/31/2014 at 18:58

Congrats, you have an opinion that nobody really gives a damn about! No wonder there are posts going around about having very little faith in humanity.

Seriously, you're no worse than a guy who walks up to an Android user and tells you how shameful it is that you didn't buy an iPhone. I happen to like it so stop worrying about me and worry about fixing your shit attitude.

Carwood > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 19:21

Theres nothing wrong about a vehicle that looks good and is built to suit a purpose. Frankly, if the SAV cant handle adverse terrain..im talking snow/sand/grass/light mud then I dont think there is much of a purpose for it.

ElsieBearden > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 19:35

My last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is wha I do......

www.shorx.cm/99jobs

goto(andLego); > jalop1991
05/31/2014 at 19:36

How do you spell billions?

jalop1991 > goto(andLego);
05/31/2014 at 19:45

A-P-P-L-E

Bytemite > Troll is English for Troll
05/31/2014 at 19:55

I dont have an attitude. And I wouldn't buy an iPhone if it were free. Just because you get played so easily by marketing doesn't make the people with common sense assholes. You're buying a car that is a 2 door version of the same car that is now the 4 door version again. Common sense, you don't have it.

djmt1 > Bytemite
05/31/2014 at 20:24

Looks are part of the reason why people buy cars and many of us like the coupe profile but want 4 doors so cars like the grand coupes, sportbacks and the CLS/A are very appealing, yes they cost more and are effectively the same but considering you're gonna see it everyday might as well be something you enjoy.

2tonic > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 20:25

What's sad about the BMW of today is that they not only are making vehicles like SUV's and whatever class/type/genre that the SAC fits, but that they're current iterations of the classic 3/5/7 series cars are so much softer, watered down, and overstyled than their ancestors.

BMW has lost its way trying to be appeal to a greater cross section of drivers than in the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's. In the previous decades they focussed on building engaging, feedback delivering, stimulus producing cars that appealed to consumers who wanted something more practical than a sports car but more entertaining than a milque toast sedan or luxe-barge.

When the X5 debuted, a BMW executive admitted that they were only building it because they thought it was necessary to offer an SUV in order to survive. I knew that signaled a change, but the change has been much greater than I expected. Certainly BMW has been successful in selling more and more cars in the last 10 years.

Go find a E39 5-series or E36 3-series for sale and test drive it. Even if it's not in the best of shape, you will experience a car with significantly more driver interest than its descendants; better steering feel, firmer suspension, a better mix of engine sound vs. low NVH, and an elemental exterior and interior design that is much more Teutonic than the new cars.

If BMW still made cars like their older legends, AND offered these softened and neutered new variants, that would be acceptable. They've even done away with their naturally aspirated straight six. Sad times indeed. I hope they find their way back.

Troll is English for Troll > Bytemite
05/31/2014 at 20:48

Oh, well excuse me for having different taste and actually liking a car that is a 4-door version of the 2-door version because I happen to like it. Maybe I'm not worthy for your good taste, is that what it is?

Next time you want to assert your dominance over someone, go to a playground. There are tons of 5-year-olds out there and I bet that they match your mental age very well.

Margatroid > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 21:05

You have to think like an advertiser:

It's not an SUV with less space. It's a five-door hatchback that also lets you look down on traffic, and doesn't make your bad hip hurt getting in.

Sinixstar > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 21:28

For me it would come down to how it drives - if it feels like an SUV, no thanks. If i still has some semblance of sportiness/fun to it -sign me up.
There are plenty of people here in the states that could/would use something like that, particularly on the west coast where you're never really more than an hour or two drive from the mountains. October through April in California for example, plenty of us are plowing our way through (hopefully) deep snow. AWD/4wd is pretty much a necessity.

The options are:
- AWD sedan/coupe - which is fine day to day, but when packed full of cold weather gear gets very cramped very quickly.
- An SUV - which whether it's full sized or not drives like a freakin boat.
- A Jeep wrangler, which is fun - but really sucks as a day-to-day vehicle.
- A subaru.

Something like this does actually fit a need that many of us have been trying to fill for a long time. I can drive it in the city and still find somewhere to park (unlike an SUV). I can drive it in the mountains in the snow comfortably. Even in the summer if I want to drive up and head to a lake, or do some mountain biking - I'll likely end up on some sketchy pothole filled dirt roads where cars don't fare well. As long as It handles better than most small SUVs it's still fun to drive - so day to day use doesn't bore me to death. It's not a subaru.
It may not excel in any one category - but it fits each of them acceptably well. I'll happily pay money for that. I can't tell you how many people around here drive subarus, old audi quattro estates, and other boring options - simply because there's no suitable alternative. Although I am seeing more and more Range Rover Evoque's literally every day.

So - the market is there. If it's niche market - it's a fairly large one.

wiffleballtony > Road Magazine
05/31/2014 at 22:04

When you said the Steve Jobs approach, I thought you meant they wanted to build something trendy, but overpriced, useless and completely unmoddable to the enthusiast community.

Alternator Fax > ThatbastardKurtis
05/31/2014 at 22:26

A lowered, lighted X4M will make an awesome rally car in 15 years.

HydraulicDragon > djmt1
05/31/2014 at 23:52

I'm still a little upset about Nissan having 9,000,000 SUV's and no cheap sports car other than the, admittedly, quite fun Juke.

burpbeepburp > Road Magazine
06/01/2014 at 00:10

Dear BWM, please keep making cars like the X4 and X6. Your regular cars let us know who the real asshat drivers are. These cars let us know who the incredibly stupid/imbecile asshats are (i.e. CEO's not just Managers).

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > ThatbastardKurtis
06/01/2014 at 01:13

Just real quick, I'd like to point out that the venerable S38 was basically an M30B35 with a twin-cam, 4 valve head that was fairly aggressive in design. The US market E36 M3 didn't even have a real M engine, and the S50/S52 were all derivatives of the M50 anyway. The S54 was probably one of the more "bespoke" engines they ever made, and the S65 and S85 are really about the only time M cars have had an engine entirely designed from scratch. I lament that we won't likely see that any time again soon, but it wasn't really the case before and it certainly doesn't seem to be hurting things now. The S63tu is an incredible engine, and the S55 looks to be too. All these reports of the engine not being special enough...I don't get it. It's far more powerful than the S65, still revs fairly high and builds power all the way to redline, it's light, fuel-efficient, and I for one love the way it sounds. With aftermarket exhaust, these cars should scream.

Anyway.

I really don't have a problem with the way things are headed, the cars are better than ever. The future is the future...can't really turn away from it or deny it. In about 50 years, everything will be an electric AWD autonomous car, or at least the cars most people drive will be. I'm just happy that BMW has managed to still build insane RWD sports cars this long that are still fun to drive.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Aaron James
06/01/2014 at 01:17

Oh god I'm so sorry. I see so many comments that actually are pretty much what you say that it's hard to tell sometimes.

I agree 100%...the more choices the better. I like not seeing the same 5 cars when I drive down the street.

minikupr > Sheriff Of American Douchetown
06/01/2014 at 01:37

I guess "many" is a relative term, if you are the Sheriff of an American douchetown, you are probably used to seeing a lot more Jeeps, Pick-ups and SUVs. Compared to other European cities, I would say that Prague has a very high population of SUVs. The most common are the Q7, GL and ML and the X5 and X6. And especially for how much hate the X6 gets on Jalopnik, it appears to be quite popular [or theres one guy in a black X6 following me around :) ]

djmt1 > HydraulicDragon
06/01/2014 at 02:21

Times are changing though and looks like Nissan are getting back in the game with the new pulsar and datsun models,plus I wonder how much money they actually make on the GTR and the Z cars. If Suvs, crossovers and hybrids subsidise sports cars then I'm all for them.

Sheriff Of American Douchetown > minikupr
06/01/2014 at 03:30

I'm not really sheriff of an American douchetown, im just holding the spot until the real one returns. I imagine Asian cars are still far and few seen in Prague. You may have a higher proportion of SUVs and the roads may not be the best, but it is a gorgeous lovely place. I miss it every time I leave.

Rx_37 > flopidiflop
06/01/2014 at 05:16

I think he meant space on earth....

Rx_37 > Troll is English for Troll
06/01/2014 at 05:20

Even if you do like it, it doesn't make the car any more justified as a whole. It's still a ridiculous idea.

KAG25 > Road Magazine
06/01/2014 at 05:55

Rare to see them here in Utah, but have been seeing many Audi A7's. And that car makes more sense to me anyway

DrScientist > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
06/01/2014 at 06:44

brand dilution means the brand no longer stands for what it stood for previously.

"BMW" as a brand once represented exclusivity, high quality engineering, and a sporting experienced. its tagline: the ultimate driving machine.

"BMW M" represented a more exclusive product (not necessarily luxury, but sport).

From a purely marketing perspective, it is bad for both "BMW" and "BMW M" to have many cars as it dilutes the impression of exclusivity, and dilutes sporting with SUVs. This is specific to these brands which previously did have exclusivity and sporty as cornerstones of their brand. i.e. a customer will ask him/herself, how can this car be exclusive if every doucherocket on the street has one. And every doucherocket on the street has one, because there is a different model to suit every doucherocket's douchey tastes.

So, if the "BMW" brand originally stood for "the right fit for everyone," then more cars would mean more brand support, not brand dilution. But it didn't.

Last point: while this current brand dilution could be considered bad from a marketing perspective, from a business strategy perspective, its not bad at all.

Where humans suffer from keeping up with the jones syndrome, many will fall for the need to have the ultimate, latest and best option out there. If the latest BMW 5 series, has been on market for 2 years, with a year still until a scheduled facelift, i'm going to go look at an audi or mb. BUT...

if there's a new 6 gran coupe or (ugh) 5 GT, or X6M blah blah blah, you've given me a reason to come into the BMW dealership.

So the new models may have diluted the brand essence, but have kept me loyal to the brand overall, without having to retool the factory for a new 5 series ahead of schedule.

its all about dollars and cents in the end.

Kevin Barrett > Road Magazine
06/01/2014 at 07:02

Because the wealthy need more ways to flaunt their money by buying cars that don't make sense and aren't useful in any particular way.

Aaron James > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
06/01/2014 at 07:48

It can be really hard to tell, there needs to be a sarcasm font.

KSEGGFTW > djmt1
06/01/2014 at 08:56

Not a fan of SAV's, but this makes perfect sense to me.

However, if I was in the market for a luxury SUV, I'd just stick with a Ranger, or a G63 AMG.

flopidiflop > Rx_37
06/01/2014 at 10:18

By that logic: How is a 4GC more "waste of space on earth" than a 3series. They are almost equal size. It´s like saying blue is a pointless color on cars. All blue cars are a waste of space.

Nickoli > Road Magazine
06/01/2014 at 11:30

One of the reasons that there are so many flavours of Coke is a psychological sales trick. If you don't know whether you prefer Coke or Pepsi, and you walk into a store to buy one, you find Pepsi, Coke, and Vanilla Coke, you'll make the decision "I prefer normal Coke to Vanilla Coke", and not think about the Pepsi, to reduce the number of things you have to consider. You walk out, and that Vanilla Coke that no-one but me likes has sold you a normal coke.

It's an over-simplified example, and it doesn't work every time - but more often than you'd think. I wonder if BMW, Audi and Mercedes-Benz are doing this. I imagine that people not that into cars may know that they want a German premium brand, and not really see all that much between them.

Rx_37 > flopidiflop
06/01/2014 at 11:43

Oh you're so missing the point! :(

He meant that if the 4GC wasn't here there would be more space for other cars, any other car.

Jumbojeepman > Road Magazine
06/01/2014 at 11:45

The main thing that upsets me about this SUV is they have the word coupe in the name. It has 4 doors. It's not a coupe.

chriswhotakesphotos > Road Magazine
06/01/2014 at 12:05

I still think "Sport activity coupe" sounds like something we would have made up as a joke.

chriswhotakesphotos > Road Magazine
06/01/2014 at 12:12

Wait! I figured it out.

BMW is making all their small cars bigger, and all their big cars weirder, until they can then start to shave models back off. They will eventually weird-up and snip down their lineup until they go back to having one single car, which will not be good at any particular thing, but equally bad at all of them.

ThatJeepGuy > Road Magazine
06/01/2014 at 12:23

So many of these comments read as "I refuse to allow other people to buy what they want, because their thoughts and emotions make no sense to me!"

Talk about intolerance. Pathetic.

This is an enthusiast niche vehicle, and people are walking all over it simply because it doesn't fit their definitions.

I'd consider an X6M (if I had the coin), and let me tell you why: Because I bloody well like the vehicle. It's fast, it's nice inside, it handles well for an SUV, it holds four people, and has four doors. I occasionally carry four people, and I often carry a lot of crap. I never carry four people AND a lot of crap, so folding seats work fine.

"But there are other vehicles that do all those things better!!" Yes, I get that. But the vehicle reaches my personal requirements in all those categories. I would never take it off road, or to a track, or street race it.

I like it, and if you don't, that's cool.

flopidiflop > Rx_37
06/01/2014 at 12:38

Ok sorry but that statement is so dumb.

"If the *insert car here* wasn´t here there would be more space for other cars, any other car."

"If the *insert thing I don´t like" wasn´t here there would be more space for other things I like. Because clearly the whole world must consist of only things I like."

"I don´t like diversity because only things I like should exist"

I am doing these comparisons to show you how stupid such comments are. Why complain on the internet about things you are not going to buy anyway. And if you are really geting mad about a 4GC in traffic next to you instead of another car I can´t help you anymore.

Troll is English for Troll > Rx_37
06/01/2014 at 13:17

It's a niche product. I already know how ridiculous the idea is. What's stopping me?

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Aaron James
06/01/2014 at 13:49

Seriously. Think how many conversations would go as intended for once.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > DrScientist
06/01/2014 at 13:57

M cars were always the most luxurious versions of every car they made as well...the first M5 was far and away the nicest E28 you could buy. So was the E30 M3. So was the E34 M5. So was the E39 M5. So was the E60 M5. So was the E46 M3. So on and so on...this idea that they made stripped out track cars is just a delusion.

Your first mistake is just calling everyone who buys a new M car a douche...that's pretty asinine and it's just not even funny anymore. To use it as an actual basis for a serious argument just doesn't make sense...some people can afford nice cars and buy new M cars. I don't see a problem with that.

People have wanted the best of whatever since the beginning. That's human nature. I don't see why that's a bad thing.

For them to cater to their customer base is not a problem for me...that's what every company exists for. If they didn't do that, they'd cease to exist. And that would be extremely sad.

omaxem > David Brown
06/01/2014 at 14:16

Ahh... OT, but the Brera has a GM sourced V6. It doesn't make a nice noise. Sorry.

It's still pretty though.

Aaron James > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
06/01/2014 at 14:31

No doubt there.

David Brown > djmt1
06/01/2014 at 15:14

I think the E3…

I was about to write that the E34 and E39 are my favourite M5s. But to be honest I like them all up until the new one. I have a problem with a car manufacturer piping an exhaust note to me as if it is whale song.

I would very much love an E28. Not even an M5, but just a nice 525.

And I forgot for a moment that my favourite engine configuration is a V10. AND... it is just my opinion, but the S85 makes a better noise than the VAG V10. It'll never be an LFA or Carrera GT but it beats every other V10.

I hear what you are saying about the infamous BMW driver. I'm sure a number of upwardly mobile posers bought these and earned every other BMW driver a reputation. Bastards.

Someone should start a thread for BMW drivers who are trying to reverse this impression. They could also out members of their brethren who drive like dicks.

Rx_37 > Troll is English for Troll
06/01/2014 at 15:16

Well i'm quite sure there should be a law against such behavior >:)

David Brown > omaxem
06/01/2014 at 15:16

What does OT mean? And thanks for bursting that bubble. I'd be a bit pissed off if I ever did buy one, and then found out it ran on Vectra power.

Holy shit!

Rx_37 > flopidiflop
06/01/2014 at 15:18

Hey don't complain to me, i have nothing to do with this argument. I was just explaining what that other guy meant.

Oh the joys of internet arguing :D

flopidiflop > Rx_37
06/01/2014 at 15:30

It´s alright ;) Just a general rant towards the wonders of the web ;)

djmt1 > David Brown
06/01/2014 at 15:33

My favourite M5 is the E60 as V10s are also my favourite sounding engines. I don't really have a problem with exhaust stereos if anything I'm for them because modern cars have such good sound insulation you often can't hear clearly so to offset this you need a loud exhaust that will most likely get on other people's nerves. I guess that is the price of luxury.

If you go through my history, you will see I have a real beef with the stupid brand association on this site. Jalopnik to me is a place where Petrolheads across the globe can discuss our love of cars but that stupid AOTD about worst owners pissed me off royally and my faith in the people who comment on this site has been severely stretched. It is a shame that even here we can't escape this bullshit. I'm not even a fan of BMWs so I can't really say but I'm surprised they haven't boycotted this site but I'm glad they haven't, its good that they step above this pettiness.

Also my name is David, there seems to be a correlation of people called David who like V10s here, weird.

Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken > Road Magazine
06/01/2014 at 16:08

Hmm what to choose, an almost useless SUV that used to be a truck or a car they made tall with the same useless capabilities.

Troll is English for Troll > Rx_37
06/01/2014 at 16:15

nooooo

go away u nub

David Brown > djmt1
06/01/2014 at 17:10

I wouldn't be surprised if we share many things that represent good taste.

The people who have names other than David wouldn't understand that remark, due to them having below average intelligence.

BiggsHoson > Sinixstar
06/01/2014 at 19:13

I think Subaru pretty much has it covered. There is not a lot out there that offers a relatively low center of gravity coupled with all wheel drive in a wagon. Granted, they keep getting taller and taller every year (I'm looking at *you*, Outback!!). Now if only somebody would build me a sporty awd two door wagon... Preferably in brown...

SP23 > Road Magazine
06/01/2014 at 20:38

I don't want to drive a SAC.

Sinixstar > BiggsHoson
06/01/2014 at 21:20

The older subarus were definitely great cars - had a few of them. The new ones, I just don't find to be the same. The WRXs are still fun - but I don't think nearly as versatile as they used to be. You can basically put them in the same category as an AWD sedan/coupe - with the same drawbacks. The old bug eye was a perfect balance of small fun sporty hatch with enough room to be useful. They look tiny compared to today's models though. We won't even get into the styling. It seems like subaru is trying to compete in the crossover market a bit too much these days.

I drove an Audi A3 hatch some time ago that was absolutely awesome - but it doesn't appear they even make the hatch anymore according to audi's website - which is a shame. That was also like a $40k car, which is kind of ridiculous. It was nice, it wasn't *that* nice.

Sinixstar > Goofnik
06/01/2014 at 21:20

That is a crime against all humanity. Whoever designed that monstrosity should be shot.

Stef Schrader > Road Magazine
06/01/2014 at 22:36

I think they accidentally typed "Coupe" instead of "Poop." It looks like a turd. I see four doors. Totes not a coupe.