Why is The WIC Program Flawed? (MAJOR RANT THAT MAY BE POLITICAL)

"JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!" (jqj213)
05/30/2014 at 15:46 • Filed to: rant, political, gov, government

WARNING: THIS IS A RANT. It is regarding government programs intended to help people. You may not agree with my views here. You may not care at all. If you want to read, go ahead. If not, enjoy the Audi above and keep scrolling.

So as many of you know, I bag groceries at a supermarket down in Florida. Because of this, I get to see many people every day from all walks of life. One moment I'm bagging groceries for the guy who daily drives a Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder. The next, I'm bagging for the single mom driving the beat to hell Nissan Quest. And one thing they always tell us to do is treat everyone with equal respect. Everyone should feel welcome in our store, no matter what their situation is. And I'm usually really good about this.

So last night, we had a lady come through the line with her younger daughter. She was wearing relatively nice clothes, but had a brand new Coach purse, was wearing a diamond ring easily worth $2500, a very nice pair of diamond earrings, and a rather expensive looking gold watch.

So we ring all of her stuff up, and she goes to pay. She is using her WIC card (Women, Infants, and Children). For those not familiar with the program, it is "a federal assistance program of the Food and Nutrition Service of the United States Department of Agriculture for healthcare and nutrition of low-income pregnant women, breastfeeding women, and infants and children under the age of five" ( !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ). It is usually used by the parents that aren't very wealthy and need help buying food. And I'm fine with this program. I believe in helping those less fortunate. What I have a problem with is someone like the lady described earlier.

What ends up happening is about $10 worth of groceries did not meet the "WIC requirements" and the lady was getting very angry. Meanwhile, we notice as she puts her card back into her Coach wallet, she has at least $200 cash (in a variety of bills), and about 8 credit cards, ranging from Visas to Amex to Discovery. And she is bitching about $10. Now she is wanting to speak with a manager. The store is busy, there is a line behind her. Manager comes over and explains the issue. We have to go through her items one by one to find out what didn't work. It was a pack of cheese, some juice, and a few cans of vegetables. So we remove those items, and it works. Now I help her out to the car.

She is driving A BRAND NEW Honda Odyssey Touring Elite. This fully loaded, top of the line minivan MSRPs at about $45,000. It was so new, she still had temporary tags on it. Loading stuff in, I notice the Starbucks cup in the front cupholder and some groceries from the local organic food market.

She complained about $10. She refused to spend $10. but she has all this money.

Here comes the anger, WHY THE HELL IS SHE ON WIC? This is a program meant for those who barely have a dollar to their name. And see them all the time. And I feel bad for them. But for this lady, who clearly has money, to be using the system and bitch about $10 which I know she has, really pissed me off. Am I crazy here?

Sorry for ranting. Thanks for listening.

DISCUSSION (26)

Party-vi > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 15:50

Wow. I was going to say, " fake coach purse, gold-plated watch, CZ ring and earrings, etc." but you got me at the new Honda minivan. Just. Wow. If people can scam the system the will. Doesn't matter where or how, individuals will find a way.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 15:51

Fraud. Fraud happened. Had you gotten the license plate, you could've reported her. I've heard that sometimes people in a shelter will receive assistance but then again you're also told to keep a low profile if you're in a shelter for abused women/children so there's some form of lying going on.

dogisbadob > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 15:51

Batshit babe contest? :p

It is Florida, so hit like that is to be expected. No really though, too bad you can't report her. I was going to entertain the possibility of Chinese knockoffs for the bag and ring until I saw the new car. WTF?

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Party-vi
05/30/2014 at 15:52

It just really bothers me since the people that actually need it get fucked by people like her

Mazarin > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 15:53

Government program flawed!? AND people are gaming the system for monetary gain!?!? I don't believe it.

thebigbossyboss > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 15:55

I was going to say knock off jewels too. ...and then the Van. Maybe she borrowed it from someone...although since you saw $200 in her purse....everyone hates welfare frauds.

Nibbles > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 15:56

Y'know what kind of people have money? People who bitch about having to drop ten bucks when its not entirely, absolutely, life-threateningly necessary

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 15:58

Hence why I hate all government programs. You'd be surprised how many times your story is repeated.

deekster_caddy > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 16:00

I'd guess she lives with a ... (boyfriend, unofficial husband, whatever) with money, who clothes and feeds her and her daughter, but they keep their finances separate so she can get the freebies. Alternatively, maybe she bought the card from some meth head and gave them cash. That's been known to happen. She doesn't get that the card has limits.

There is a lot of abuse in "the system" (any aid system). There are a lot of people who feel entitled to their freebies. There is a lot of undocumented income around. You could be a real meanie and call the plate number in to DSS or some shit. But "the system" also helps a lot of people who really need it.

I can't stand the abusers. Yeah, you don't always know the full story... but it sure sounds like this person didn't need it.

jariten1781 > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 16:03

There's tons of fraud in the WIC, SNAP, Section-8 etc. programs.

Also, WIC is technically health and income based so technically a person without income but other means qualifies. For example: Large account balance payed in a lump sum judgment a few years ago (sued a store) but not working; not married but living with a guy and technically not bringing in any income themselves; working cash only (prostitution/drugs commonly).

The health portion is really dicey. They typically test for iron deficiency to qualify and there have been lots of stories over the decades of people starving their children before the 6 month WIC checkups to make sure they'll still be 'nutritionally deficient' and keep the benefits.

YoungPadwan > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 16:05

This a million times this.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 16:07

My issue with WIC isn't so much the fact that people should have something to eat in the wealthiest nation on Earth (Although I would be far more willing to ask my neighbors for leftovers before I'd ever ask the government. And the sad part, I know they would feed me without even so much as a question. God Bless The South.)

My issue is that so many different special groups are given extra consideration for welfare programs. Single WASP male? Fat chance you will get EBT in any form. Got kids and are a single parent? Come right this way. Single woman with no kids? Come right this way.

I also don't have a problem with a safety net. I have massive issues with people thinking that the government *owes* them an existence by the mere fact that they were born.

Again, if it was all private charity, I don't care how they got the stuff or the van. I have my philanthropic causes, and I give to them. If I thought someone would be greatly helped by my giving, I would not hesitate in an instant.

But that's not the problem. The problem is this: you will not be allowed to choose to care (or not), but forced, through your taxes. Charity ceases to be charitable at the barrel of a gun.

You will be made to care.

Nothing > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 16:14

I've known numerous people in college graduate programs qualify for WIC/food stamps/whatever, as states (maybe not all, but the ones I've lived in) considered their degree programs as jobs. Girl I dated years ago was in school for her doctorate and shopped at Whole Foods on her food stamps while also holding down a waitressing gig.

Brian, The Life of > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 16:15

My take? Probably a welfare fraudstress. But it's important to keep this kind of fraud in perspective . It represents at most 10% but more likely 3-4% of SNAP expenditures. Corporate welfare fraud/loopholes is where the big money is lost/abused. This lady, as loathsome as she might be, and people like her are a drop in the proverbial bucket compared to corporate welfare.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Brian, The Life of
05/30/2014 at 16:22

Thats a really good point; it just isnt right

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
05/30/2014 at 16:25

And you know what, your most likely right where she is one of the ones who thinks that the gov owes her for "everything" she does, which is why she has no regrets.

And my family has been the same way. We've had points where we were eligible for food stamps but refused to take help from the government. There are so many like that who have to much pride to get the help... so when people like her, who dont really need it, swoop in and grab it, i get a little mad

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > deekster_caddy
05/30/2014 at 16:27

Its true that anything is possible and maybe she did lose her job because of the kid which is why she can get it; but it seemed like she could've gotten by without it.

She looked like the kind who felt entitled to the government's money

Brian, The Life of > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 16:28

Absolutely! NO fraud against the public trust should ever be tolerated. I just get angry that the focus and outrage always seems to be directed towards this kind of fraud instead of where the big money goes. Our energy and outrage should follow the real money.

M54B30 > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 16:28

Different states have different thresholds for WIC eligibility. my wife works with a guy who got WIC when he was in Alaska, but not South Dakota. Unlike other govt programs, WIC only has *so much* money - it's not bottomless. If you live in a state where there is more money than users, they up the acceptable income guidelines. This allows people with higher incomes to use WIC.

While it's easy to look at people like your story, you have to take a lot into consideration. The stuff she had (purse, earrings, etc) is likely counterfeit or fake. The van may have been hers (one scenario) or maybe co-signed, borrowed, a gift, etc (multiple scenarios).

We use WIC and we drive nice cars. Before we moved out here, I made 70k/year because my job required extensive overtime (we worked 70+ hours a week). That wasn't available to me out here, so our income dropped significantly. Also, WIC is very hard to scam. I noticed you said she had a WIC card, we only have paper checks that are very specific about what you can get.

Leadbull > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 16:32

Nothing is perfect in this world, including social programs. People will always find ways to cheat the system; that's humanity for you.

However... I haven't researched this particular program, but I assume the vast majority of people on it, use it fairly. Don't think that exceptions are the rule.

I personally am in favor of social programs. If I have one quip, it's that there's too many of them. I think Mr. Chapman's philosophy is applicable to more than cars.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Leadbull
05/30/2014 at 16:43

At least in Fl, the system is pretty good. You get a card and a list of WIC eligible items, whichnis quire a bit. You can get bagels, and apple juice, and fresh meats and deli cold cuts, and cereal, etx.. from what I understand, how it works is you get an allowance, like you can buy 4 things of apple juice per month and the like. Once you hit the allowance, you have to pay normally. Different people have different limits due to income or health...

I like them too, since I like helping those in need, its why I for instance donate $3 a week to charity through work. But the number of programs needs to be cut down and simplified. There are so many to keep track of. And they are always changing

mcseanerson > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 16:55

Are you sure she was the authorized signer? I have seen lot's of people go shopping for friends or family on welfare and pickup stuff for them and take it to them because they don't have a car.

mcseanerson > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
05/30/2014 at 16:59

Another problem with charity from the government is not only are we being forced to pay for it but it also makes dependents out of the recipients who will be swayed on voting decisions by who is "paying" them.

mcseanerson > deekster_caddy
05/30/2014 at 17:01

I've known lot's of people to "care" for people on disability. Lot's of them just invite someone to live with them who gets assistance from the government and gets themselves declared as their guardian and just shoves them in a room and collects a check each month.

Polly's Pocket > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
05/30/2014 at 20:56

I have NEVER seen a single woman without kids get government assistance.

samssun > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder!
05/30/2014 at 21:34

Your problem is assuming the program is "intended to help people", rather than buy votes and create more government (D)ependency.

The natural side effect is Entitlement: she has $10, but has been trained that she's owed it, so instead of appreciating the freebies, she's outraged she'd have to pay for anything.

We're taxing half of society to death to pay the other half to lay around, and no "fair share" will ever be enough to satisfy the endless demands. Then there's the cognitive dissonance of paying billions in food stamps while we have a runaway obesity epidemic.