Oppo, I Think I Made a Grave Mistake Buying Tires Today (Update!)

"Luken10" (luken10)
05/29/2014 at 20:28 • Filed to: Tires

I managed to grab myself a set of brand new Toyo Proxes R888 for half off today! They grip unbelievably well, and don't even ride all that bad. You might be asking yourself, "Well what the hell is the problem then?!" (Update!) Also a new technical question about tire wear.

Here's the thing. This tires are sitting on my daily driven Protege5. COMPLETE OVERKILL, but I have tracked it once and plan on tracking it again. You would think, "okay, great track day tires." However, I will be driving this car mostly every day. I put 12,000 miles on my car last year and the treadwear rating on these tires is ridiculously low.

I went into America's Tire looking to buy a set of Continental DW's, but came out with these for the same price. All I was thinking was "TRACK DAY BRO, CANYON CARVING BRO, NO MORE UNDERSTEER BRO!" Can anyone chime in and let me know if I can make these last, or should I go do the sensible thing and buy something with a treadwear rating that is more than 100...

(Updated Bits) So I went back into America's Tire to either exchange the tires or see if I could negotiate the price lower. Ended up getting another $100 off! Deals like that don't show up often, so I am keeping them. A good drive up in the mountains the other night showed me the light.

So now for the technical question. After the drive in the mountains the tires are showing some wear. I just want to make sure this is normal, or if I need to do something with my alignment.

The rubber on the outside shoulders isn't smooth after my spirited drive. Is there something different I should be doing?

DISCUSSION (91)

Crocket Bernet > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:30

Get steelies and put some prius tires on those bitches. Save the gooduns for the track day bro.

Jayhawk Jake > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:31

It's going to be such a waste to burn through them on the highway...

mcseanerson > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:31

Yes sensible advice. That's what we do here.

Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:32

Bro, track day bro. Sign up for the soonest autocross and rock that shit. Screw practicality

Biased Plies > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:32

Unless you can afford to replace them frequently, which sounds impractical, I'd get a set of something else to go along with them.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:33

Best tires I've ever bought.

No Prius Needed > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:33

Put space savers all around and turn understeer into snap oversteer!

Soloburrito > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:35

Have you driven with them in the rain yet?

BKRM3 > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:36

that's fine and all, if the place where you live doesn't have cold...or rain

McMike > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:36

I did the same thing back in the 80s with a set of Yokohama A-008s. They were soft and wore out FAST. I didn't even get two years out of my first set.

I did what any sensible Jalop would have done.

Bought another set.

Kinja'd!!!

dogisbadob > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:37

The P5 is awesome.

Conti's DWS and the Kumho Ecsta 4X should serve you well if you decide to get different tires.

Luken10 > Velocity- Peuguette Connoisseur
05/29/2014 at 20:37

I know, right?? My car is cosmetically stock, and would be a totally sweet sleeper on the track!

Biased Plies > mcseanerson
05/29/2014 at 20:38

Fuck it, he bought track day tires, time to trade the Protege in for a Miata Exige.

Luken10 > McMike
05/29/2014 at 20:40

If I can get a full year out of these I will be more than happy! I tend to go the more sensible route with my purchases, but my inner Jalop was tingling to experience top of the line tires!

mcseanerson > Biased Plies
05/29/2014 at 20:40

used tires for the meantime bro. Go to the junkyard and they might even have a set of wheels with decent tires on them. My local pick and pull will sell you a set if you can find it for $100

Luken10 > Crocket Bernet
05/29/2014 at 20:42

I looked into that, but it's around another 400 dollars to go that route. Money I don't have available for car purchases right now. :(

Luken10 > Biased Plies
05/29/2014 at 20:44

The cost of buying a new set of cheap wheels/tires is really not in my budget right now. It's really a one or the other type of situation. I am just having a hard time finding out how long these will last. No one really daily drives on them.

lonestranger > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:45

Is it your DD? Way overkill. Probably useless in even moderate rain, too.

Luken10 > dogisbadob
05/29/2014 at 20:46

Thanks, I love this hatchback!

I was really looking to stick with summer tires. I have heard good things about the tires you mentioned, but I'm not sure if I am ready to give up grip.

Luken10 > Soloburrito
05/29/2014 at 20:47

Nope, and to be honest I don't plan on it. I live in Southern California, so rain isn't much of a concern.

Luken10 > Jayhawk Jake
05/29/2014 at 20:48

That's what is eating away at me right now. I try to drive the canyon roads once a month or so, but I definitely put way more highway commuting miles on the car.

The Transporter > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:49

Should have got some Hooosiers for TRACK DAY BRO!

Luken10 > Biased Plies
05/29/2014 at 20:50

Trust me, if I had the means I would do that in a heartbeat. I am just trying to make the best of my car in my current situation.

promoted by the color red > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:50

Are you running with a stock suspension? I have heard horror stories of people running R-comps going beyond what the stock suspension could handle and ending upside down.

Luken10 > BKRM3
05/29/2014 at 20:51

To be honest, it's generally always warm and sunny where I live. At least I have that going for me!

Biased Plies > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:53

Sounds like it might be best to see if you can flip them for a quick [small] profit on them. The Miata crowd might be interested since the wheel sizes might be comparable (15"?).

Luken10 > promoted by the color red
05/29/2014 at 20:53

I have Mazdaspeed suspension installed. Still nothing near what a track set up would offer. I have never really thought of that, though. I'll have to look into this!

daender > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 20:55

There's a local auto-crosser/track-day guy who daily drives his BRZ on Dunlop ZII's, they're holding up pretty well and he's looking to get about 20k out of them. Just treat them well and they'll be fine.

Luken10 > Biased Plies
05/29/2014 at 20:55

16". Selling them is actually a decent idea, I just feel like I would have a really hard time finding a buyer. The America's Tire store was sitting on them for a year.

Luken10 > mcseanerson
05/29/2014 at 20:57

I live in Southern California. It seems like any junk yard around here would charge triple that amount. I may just call around though. I can afford 100 bucks!

dogisbadob > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:02

I hear you on the grip, but if treadlife is a concern, then all-seasons might suit you better. They are probably the best compromises between grip and treadwear.

Grand touring summer tires exist, perhaps they have more grip and a slightly shorter life than the performance all-seaosns, but they're not available in your size :(

Luken10 > daender
05/29/2014 at 21:03

There's some good news. The Protege5 weighs about the same as a BRZ. I think the Dunlop's aren't quite as track focused as the Proxes. The Proxes have a tread wear rating of 100 and are not recommended for street use, while the Dunlop's have a tread wear rating of 200 and not quite as extreme warnings for street use. I know you can't directly compare two company's tread wear ratings, but it is a little disconcerting.

Luken10 > No Prius Needed
05/29/2014 at 21:03

And not to mention much cheaper!

Luken10 > E30Joe drives a Subaru
05/29/2014 at 21:04

Do you happen to daily drive them? I am trying to figure out how long I can expect them to last.

Luken10 > The Transporter
05/29/2014 at 21:06

Hoosiers weren't half off BRO!

Biased Plies > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:10

It's worth a shot. Forums might be your best bet.

Luken10 > dogisbadob
05/29/2014 at 21:10

As long as they last me a year I am good to go. Sometimes I do think how nice it would be to buy a set of tires that lasts 50,000 miles. I already miss RWD, so I'm not sure if I am ready to open up to all-seasons with open arms haha.

The Transporter > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:12

Track day NO!

Luken10 > lonestranger
05/29/2014 at 21:12

The manufacture recommends not driving them in the rain. It doesn't rain enough where I live to be a huge concern. Totally overkill, but for the same price as regular summer tires, it was hard to pass up!

TurboSloth > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:12

COMPLETE OVERKILL

TRACK DAY BRO, CANYON CARVING BRO, NO MORE UNDERSTEER BRO!

You just went full Jalop. Remember, overkill is underrated.

Luken10 > TurboSloth
05/29/2014 at 21:14

I did just go full Jalop didn't I? "Never go full Jalop!"

Squid > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:17

You might be able to get a year out of the tires. Don't expect any more than that. Keep an eye on your pressures and rotate them often to keep the wear even. So really I look at as have fun with the tires and just start putting money away now for the next set of tires. If you want them to live, you'll need to rotate them more frequently than other tires but they should give you more grip than you could ever need in your car. Just don't try doing burnouts and drag launches because you'll end up with broken half shafts and shit.

I say drive on em and then start putting money away to get a more reasonable set of tires in the future. You know that is the best option and what you should do. . .

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:22

I got less than 6 months out of a set of Bridgestone Potenza RE760 Sports, but I also drove 25,000 miles in that time.

I thought about a set of AD08s, but they probably wouldn't last the summer, the way my car burns through the miles. (Now, if I get that OCONUS contracting gig and get to take the Mazda... She's getting AD08s.)

fifanatic > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:30

Do you only have one set of wheels? You could always buy a really, really cheap set of wheels and then throw your DD tires on them...

Luken10 > DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully
05/29/2014 at 21:37

I was seriously considering the Bridgestone's as well, but they came out to the same price as the Proxes. Tread life wasn't really on my mind at the time. 25,000 miles seems really great for a set of ultra performance tires.

Good luck getting your contracting gig!

Luken10 > fifanatic
05/29/2014 at 21:39

By the time I buy another set of cheap wheels and tires I am really out of my budget. Plus I like having a good amount of grip should I find a nice road somewhere.

fifanatic > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:41

What about just some steelies?

HideyoshiJP > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:41

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Just start saving for the next set. Maybe something more reasonable, like an ultra high performance or max performance summer tire.

fifanatic > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:43

Thou shalt love thy steelies. (32nd commandment)

Luken10 > Squid
05/29/2014 at 21:44

If I could find some proof of these tires lasting more than a few thousand miles I would be pretty set on keeping them. I just don't want to be in a situation where I didn't have enough time to save up for another set should they wear out too quickly.

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:46

I just threw the stockers back on, for now. However, I'm planning on getting something sticky under the 3 again, ASAP.

Rico > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:46

Try to find a used tires place, you can get some good tires with rather minimal wear (use a tread gauge) for about 200 bucks.

Rico > dogisbadob
05/29/2014 at 21:48

+1 on the Kumho Ecsta 4x, have a set on my C300 with about 400 miles on them now and they've been fantastic.

Life and Times of Magoo: The People's Champ > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:48

As a fellow P5 owner I have nothing but biased responses.

#twistiesallday

E30Joe drives a Subaru > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:49

I did.

Not long. If you drive gingerly they last a summer maybe. My odo was broken (LOL E30's) and I ran two sets for the rear and got away with one in the front for about 5 months driving about every other day maybe 30 miles a day. They do not last long at all if you drive hard, which I did.

Squid > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 21:52

People get them to last a full season of auto crossing which is ridiculously hard on tires. Just rotate them every 1,000 miles and learn your lesson to not take the bait of R comp tires. . . But then I have no idea how long they really do last. I know that a few Miata guys have used them on the streets but I don't know how many miles they got on them.

I guess the smart thing to do would be to trade them in and get a set of star specs and stay away from the super soft sticky icky tires.

Luken10 > Squid
05/29/2014 at 22:04

I definitely took the bait haha. It isn't really the same price as other tires when you have to replace them twice as often. I am getting varied results searching forums. Anything from 4,000 to 18,000 miles on a set.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 22:08

I adore those tires. Amazing in the dry, surprisingly decent in the wet as well. Very very soft and will get chewed up for daily driving very very quickly.

Luken10 > fifanatic
05/29/2014 at 22:09

I'm not against steelies, it's just by the time a find a set and put some tires on it will cost me another 300-400 bucks. Everything used gets overpriced in Southern California.

dogisbadob > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 22:10

Then you probably want the Dunlop Direzza DZ102. It's a performance summer tire with a rather high treadwear rating of 460—that's the same rating as my (all-season) SP Sport Signatures! It's also higher than the all-season Kumho I mentioned earlier.

Luken10 > HideyoshiJP
05/29/2014 at 22:12

Hahah, I want to believe this! My sensible side is eating away at me though! I don't want to wear through these before I have enough time to save up for the next set.

Luken10 > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig
05/29/2014 at 22:13

Exactly how quickly? If I can't get a year or around 12,000 miles I will probably take them back.

Luken10 > dogisbadob
05/29/2014 at 22:19

I also noticed the very high tread wear rating on the Dz102. It has me concerned about how grippy they actually are. They are too new to have a good amount of reviews in order to know for sure.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 22:25

You MIGHT get that out of them if you have a good alignment and keep them rotated properly. I use mine as track tires. The rubber compound is very soft, the same compound as Nitto NT01's and very sensitive to temperature. I keep them in my room when I'm not using them, and I use a tire trailer to transport them to the track (that part is probably overkill) but I want them to last for as many seasons as I can because I'm poor haha.

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 22:33

On the flip side — sometimes you buy tires for your driving style. I had shitty all-seasons and nearly Darwin'ed myself, no rain or adverse road/weather conditions involved.

Squid > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 22:35

You got till your next oil change to save up for another set of tires. . . hahaha, I know when my buddy ran Azenis on his Mustang they were treated as year tires and got replaced once a year basically around 13-14,000 miles. The R888 is a much grippier and softer tire and I would be impressed if they lasted over 10,000 miles.

Turn them in and get some star specs and be happy. There really isn't any need for your car to have the R888 tires unless you plan on selling me the car for $499 with the R888 and we go do some LeMons racing. . .

I don't think they will be too happy dealing with the heat in SoCal over the summer.

His Stigness > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 22:38

If you're looking for crazy grip, a comfortable ride, a quiet ride, and mileage, look no further than Michelin Pilot Super Sports. They are the only performance tire with a mileage warranty, and it's 30,000 miles! GET THEM!!!

dogisbadob > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 22:46

Yeah that's just shocking considering the performance category. But I do like Dunlop tires, and the only reason I didn't suggest the SP Sport Signature is because they're not available in your size haha

No really though, it'll probably have slightly less grip than the R888, but more than an all-season like the DWS (which I heard is pretty damn good in its own right). The most-likely-slight ultimate dry handling difference shouldn't outweigh the much longer treadlife the Dunlops should offer.

The only other summer tire in your size with a reasonable treadlife but not freakishly high like the DZ102 would be Discount Tire's GT Radial Champiro UHP1, treadwear 280.

That said, I wouldn't be too worried about the DZ102's performance.

Luken10 > His Stigness
05/29/2014 at 22:54

Trust me, I looked into them. Too bad they don't come in 16". They are also a tad on the pricy side. Definitely get what you pay for though.

Luken10 > Squid
05/29/2014 at 22:59

Hahah, pretty much with the oil change. I don't understand how a few people are getting 15,000+ on these tires. Maybe they are running them till they are completely bald.

You give some good advice. I think I will try and get the Continental DW's I originally went it for. $80 dollar rebate and two free nights in a Marriott hotel really sweetens the deal.

Luken10 > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire
05/29/2014 at 23:01

I have only driven this car with summer tires. I am honestly a little worried how much understeer would become apparent if I installed all-seasons. I am all about pushing a slow car to its limits, but understeering off a mountain doesn't sound like a good time to me.

Luken10 > dogisbadob
05/29/2014 at 23:09

Sometimes I think I analyze these things way too much. I am taking days to figure out which tires to put on a $4,000 hatchback. In all honestly you are probably right. While I like to think my car handles fairly well, and I am a more than decent driver, I am not some racing driver who does manufacturer testing. In the end it won't make a world of difference.

205/50-16 fits just fine on the car, and I personally like the larger tire to fill up the wheel well a bit more. I can buy a set of Continental DW's which have stupid soft sidewalls, but plenty of overall grip. Plus, I can get an $80 rebate and two free nights in a Marriott hotel if I buy them.

Luken10 > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig
05/29/2014 at 23:13

Got to do what you gotta do! I think that I am coming to the conclusion that these will most likely not last a full year of driving.

His Stigness > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 23:26

Get bigger wheels then! You haven't lived till you've owned a set of Super Sports.

Luken10 > His Stigness
05/29/2014 at 23:35

I can't justify a $1400 wheel and tire package for a 130hp hatchback! I'll do it when I own a real sports car. Then I can really take advantage of them!

dogisbadob > Luken10
05/29/2014 at 23:51

There is nothing wrong with taking your time and analyzing the tires. Even if you're not doing the manufacturer testing, tires are an important par of the car and a place where some thought should be put into your decision. I spent almost a month researching tires for my $700 sedan.

The DW has been discontinued, and anyway the tires have to total at least $499 *not* including taxes, fees, installation, etc. to qualify for the rebate and hotel, which your DW's do not. Remember that a 205/50 sidewall is taller than a 195/50, which could make the soft sidewall even more pronounced, and this seems like something that could make you unhappy. You'd really hate the 205/65-15 tires on my car!

Your best course of actions is likely to get the DZ102, which has a $40 rebate until the end of the month. And they are cheaper than the DW.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > Luken10
05/30/2014 at 00:17

The older DZ101's are my daily driver tires. If the DZ102's are the similar, they're probably fine. Grippier than my old all-seasons, but still long lasting.

Stef Schrader > Luken10
05/30/2014 at 00:40

Hoon them. Hoon them like you've never hooned before.

I daily drive my Z2s. 'sfun, but yeah: I eat through more tires than most.

Personally, I like the steelies/spare set of sticky icky summer tires idea. Lots of less sticky options in the 180-250 TW range that will take lots of daily driving abuse. I only have to replace those Z2s about once a year on a car that's been averaging 20-30K a year in miles and frequent track use......because it's there, and I have a car.

Luken10 > dogisbadob
05/30/2014 at 01:16

I am sure the taller sidewall plays a large role in it. I had a set on my car for a year. I loved the comfort they provided during daily use, but they lacked feedback when really pushing it. The outer edges ended up showing cord after a track day because of the extreme sidewall flex. The middle section of the tire didn't wear much at all, as it still had a good amount of tread. It does bother me, but the incentives are pretty good and they should provide more ultimate grip according to all the TireRack testing. I will do some more research on the DZ102's, as it is nice to switch things up sometimes to see what is out there.

You would be correct with the total having to be $499. The real total would come out to be $472 with installation, which can be included in the total. I would most likely have America's Tire add the certificates to the price of the tire in order to meet the minimum. The Marriott promotion is something that will save me money later on. I am also part of Conti-Club, some promotional tire buying club, which will give me the $80 dollar rebate.

If you don't mind me asking, do you work in the tire industry? You have been very helpful!

CAcoalminer > Luken10
05/30/2014 at 01:56

From what I've read online, they should last at least 5,000 miles.

Luken10 > CAcoalminer
05/30/2014 at 02:21

Yeah, that seems like a good solid baseline from what I have read as well. Sadly that is really much too low for my use!

CAcoalminer > Luken10
05/30/2014 at 10:15

Yeah. It's amazing how fast tires like these go even when you're only driving them in normal situations.

dogisbadob > Luken10
05/30/2014 at 10:49

I do not work in the tire industry, just had good luck with Dunlop, that's all. Glad I could help though!

The Conti-club sounds like a good deal, even though I'm not really a fan of their tires. I used to have their ContiExtremeContact, not the DWS, but its predecessor. They were almost worn and had developed heavy sidewall cracking in less than 2 years and 20k.

His Stigness > Luken10
05/30/2014 at 12:21

That's understandable. What about the Michelin Pilot A/S 3's? Those offer more grip than leading competitor summer tires, and they have a 45,000 tread life warranty.

un-hipster > Luken10
05/30/2014 at 16:25

take the money you saved and buy a second set of steelies/rim protector tires to save your good rubber. craigslist is your friend here.

sloPro > Luken10
05/30/2014 at 21:49

yup i'm biased as well. MSP turblow swap, and track day bro!

Luken10 > sloPro
05/31/2014 at 00:27

Very nice! I have been tempted to do the turbo swap, but my motor has been rock solid so far. Wouldn't want to take my chances with reliability.

Luken10 > un-hipster
05/31/2014 at 00:29

I ended up spending what I originally intended, so it doesn't exactly leave much extra in the budget. Definitely the way to go if I had the means.

Luken10 > His Stigness
05/31/2014 at 00:39

According to TireRack's testing, they don't hold as many G's as my previous Continental DW's. Or many other summer tires. They are close, and may be more responsive, but the summer tires are better on paper. At 150 per tire they are also a little on the pricey side.

His Stigness > Luken10
05/31/2014 at 01:09

I think the Conti's are the only ones that beat the A/S 3's, everyone else falls short (Goodyear, Yoko, Bridgestone).

The A/S 3's may be more expensive, but you have to take the warranty into account, or lack of in the case of the DW. I looked into the DW when I bought my first set of tires a few years ago (but I was comparing them to the Super Sports) and not having a mileage warranty (when the Super Sports did) was a major stepping point for me. I considered the A/S Plus's because of the higher mileage, but my future boss at America's Tire talked me out of them because of the "chunking" issue they had. The new A/S 3's do not have that issue though, and they have higher levels of grip.

The Michelin's may be more than the Conti's but I know that the Michelin's are quieter, more comfortable, a better choice as an all season tire (read: better in the rain), and more economical in the long run. Take the mileage difference into consideration: I have no idea how many miles you got out of your Conti's but Michelin's never miss their mark on mileage warranties (when the alignment and tire pressures are correct). So lets say your Conti's last 20,000 miles (I'm guessing they don't), whereas the A/S 3's will last you 2.25 times longer. So cut the price of the Michelin in half and you can better compare them.

I may sound like a Michelin salesman, but I assure you I'm not, I'm just speaking from experience; I'm an auto technician and I drive tons of different cars with different tires, and Michelin's always outperform the competition, and every customer that has paid more (on paper) for Michelin's have been supremely happy.

blairl > Luken10
06/01/2014 at 23:43

DWs for the motherfucking win. I have them on my mk4 Golf and they're fantastic. They ride well, are very quiet, very effective in the rain, and they last a long time as well. Mine probably have 20,000mi on them, and they're about half worn. They also offer good steering feel, and have very high levels of adhesion once they're warmed up. They don't balance up as well as the Energy MXV4s I had on the car previously though.