Oppo, I have a Problem

"Denver Is Stuck In The 90s" (denver80222) 05/26/2014 at 14:11 • Filed to: Conundrum

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So, I am a couple months away from being able to get my license, this fact has me thinking about whats a good first car to get. I am in art school, and need the space and versatility for stuff like canvases and easels. Why am I getting my license so late in life? Not my choice, my mom is a licensed psychotherapist, she had this notion that she is the person that would decide when I am mature enough to drive, but then again what 16 year old is mature enough to drive? Anyway, I digress, this arbitrary restriction only made my love for cars stronger, it drove me to learn about every aspect of the car world from jdm to turn of the century classics. I mean, what 20 year old with a learners permit can in great detail, explain to you the driving controls of a Ford Model T or knows what a jaguar dtype is and understands its significance. As far as I know I am the only one. This brings me to my conundrum, as a car guy, I really want an old car (at least 3 decades old) thats sorta fast, sounds great and will keep me tinkering for weekends on end, but as an artist that makes no sense. What makes sense is a crossover with big doors, this brings me to the above picture. I think for a first car, a Honda Element would make sense, early examples are cheapish right now (below 7k) and It would be perfect as an artist's car. It has plastic seats (So paint can spill with no worries about cleanup and are completely removable), Big suicide doors to get stuff in and out of the side of the vehicle, a horizontally divided rear hatch for transporting long stuff and gets good gas mileage (being an artist is expensive (gotta cut costs somewhere)). But I would hate driving it, yet it would be the best option for me at this point in my life. Oppo, Help me make a decision, I'm saving my money and should have enough for a car in a year to a year and a half, I would like to know what I am saving up for succinctly.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:19

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I'd say an Element is a great choice actually, but if you'd like something a bit more "Oppo", how about a Volvo 240 or 740 or perhaps an 850? OR... a BUICK ROADMASTER... YEAH :)

scoob > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:19

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The other answer .

Crest > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:20

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You want fast, modifiable, reliable and spacious then get an impreza wagon or a turbo forester. Just my 2 cents

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:21

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1) no the Element does NOT have plastic seats

2) the Element is a fantastic and very reliable choice

Have you thought of a CR-V also??? the 2002-2006 gen had a manual offered too

interrogator-chaplain > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:22

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Not bragging, but I've had my license since I was 16 and I have yet to be stopped by the police or have an accident that causes more than a medium sized crack on my bumper.

As for your predicament. Wagon. Preferably Volvo.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:23

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An old Bronco

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:23

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Uh...

Some sort of wagon, obviously.

But my girl which loves to paint still drove a 2007 Honda Fit, and those canvas fit just nicely, assuming you fold the rear seat.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:24

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"I really want an old car (at least 3 decades old) thats sorta fast, sounds great and will keep me tinkering for weekends on end, but as an artist that makes no sense."

29 yrs old if you want any power, and you'll look like an unhappy old guy, but still... canvas shaped space in the back with easy access and spaces to clip into when the top is on! My sister had an element through college. Good versatility, not-so-good anything else. Good for your purposes, probably, as it was for hers. I think you can get them with manual transmissions. Coupled with 4WD you could have a little fun outside of the city.

sourlemons > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:25

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You are an artist? I see the Element as the perfect canvas for your expression. Own it and enjoy it. It doesn't have to be boring, no car does.

CPT Speedbump > Crest 05/26/2014 at 13:25

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Denver_80222, you live in Denver..sooo, I'd go with what Crest sais, the 04'ish XT turbo Foreseters are awesome sleepers. And awd, as me and you both know, it snows here, lol.

D > scoob 05/26/2014 at 13:28

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Official car of the art student

PatBateman > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:28

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'80s Suburban 4x4 with a 454. Snow? WHAT SNOW?!?!

sourlemons > sourlemons 05/26/2014 at 13:29

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BTW, since when does an artist have to make sense or be practical?

EL_ULY > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:29

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2000 BMW 540i V8 + Wagon + put an intake and exhaust = :]

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4484623714…

Reigntastic > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:30

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You should get a Volvo 740 turbowagon. Drift wagon, and a rear hatchback and removable rear seats for massive canvases. Not quite 30 years old, but a lot older than a Honda Element and certainly more interesting.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 05/26/2014 at 13:31

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Ey.. the rear window on the C4 actually opens? That does it, I'm trading my old Mitsubishi Estate for a Corvette NOW.

cabarne4 > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:33

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I'm going with the Honda Fit.

They get great gas mileage (most owners report mid-30's on the freeway, more if you keep your speed low and your foot out of it). The back end, with the seats down, can fit literally anything (I've seen someone put a full sized dresser in the back of one, with room for a 2nd). They're surprisingly fun to drive, because their lightweight. They've got a large greenhouse, so they're easy so see out of. They're physically small, so they're easy to park.

It really is a great all around car.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 05/26/2014 at 13:34

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You'd better do it soon. Just watch the video and everything will be clear to you.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/master-yoda-iv…

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 05/26/2014 at 13:35

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If I get an element it would me a manual awd model, but where am I gonna find one?

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > CPT Speedbump 05/26/2014 at 13:37

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Ya, I know my friend's roommate drives a red markII forester xt

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > scoob 05/26/2014 at 13:38

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Here's my problem as an art student, I cant afford my own insurance, I'd have to go on my mom's and she wont let me get anything european, because holocaust

Roberto G. > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:38

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Dunno, really.... it's true indeed that I am not native English speaker, but a GIS for "Utility Vehicle" gave a shitload of these things . You are sure that you couldn't want one?

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > EL_ULY 05/26/2014 at 13:40

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if only that were closer and I could afford my own insurance so my mom couldnt say no to anything german, because holocaust

noringnocare > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 05/26/2014 at 13:40

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I have a 95 Bronco with a 302. She gets 15 MPG with 180 on the clock. All stock except 33's and a soft top. Think of this as a long term investment. As an art student now, it'll fit everything you want. after you found out art doesn't pay until you're dead, you got a truck that does almost everything you want it to (especially with a soft top where you can fold it forward and have a pick-up in 2 minutes flat). Not going to win races but she'll take a licking and keep on tickin'.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > PatBateman 05/26/2014 at 13:40

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I dont have gas money for that to dd

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 05/26/2014 at 13:40

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I've been in love with the C4 since I saw Faceman in one :) Now.. I just KNOW that I need one.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 05/26/2014 at 13:42

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I have, my dad had an 05 ex for a while, but the element makes more sense because suicide doors

Team6.1 > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:42

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So you can go back in time at get your drivers license at 16

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 05/26/2014 at 13:43

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are you paying for gas and bail money?

lonestranger > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 05/26/2014 at 13:44

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Or, if you want a C3, get an '82 Collector's Edition.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:46

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just pretend like you're looking for one! I was searching for a wagon when I bought a cheap 'Vette for the same price as as an OK W123 wagon, or crappy 740 turbo wagon. Just remember, any car is a roof rack and zip tie away from practicality haha

In all seriousness, though, the best advice I could give is to just keep your eyes open. Don't count out a nice wagon. A 740 has enough room to live in it with a passenger seat, enough storage for stuff, small workspace, and small bed. If you get something like that for $2000, it'll be dead reliable while having character and tons of space for painting paraphanelia. With the money you save, you can have a decent fun car later on without having to sell the Volvo. That's probably a dumb plan, but as a dumb person, I'm obligated to suggest it.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Team6.1 05/26/2014 at 13:47

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Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Roberto G. 05/26/2014 at 13:47

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I dont think those are street legal

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > lonestranger 05/26/2014 at 13:49

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Honestly, I like the C4 better :/ sorry..

No Prius Needed > EL_ULY 05/26/2014 at 13:50

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I NEED IT!

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 05/26/2014 at 13:57

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ok The element doesnt technically have plastic seats, it has pvc upholstered seats. and in my previous comment I was talking about the second gen CRV, I dont think I made that obvious.

m-b-w loves his SUBAROO > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 13:58

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But it's Swedish, not German.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > m-b-w loves his SUBAROO 05/26/2014 at 13:59

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Im not saying that she made sense, but thats what she said. Shes a person who almost t-boned a m3 coupe and then afterwards said that it didnt belong on the street because it was too fast, I wrote about it on oppo an hour after it happened, with a picture of the car she almost hit: http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/accident-narro…

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 05/26/2014 at 14:04

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in looks, yes in performance, no

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 14:13

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Performance is easy to improve ;)

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 05/26/2014 at 14:13

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true

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh 05/26/2014 at 14:15

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Yeaaaaah.... That thing is a canvas all by itself!

Bandit > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 14:19

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2nd gen Trans Am. It is/was my first car and they are relatively practical. I can fit a full size mountain bike in the rear seats while still retaining use of both front seats. Newest they are 33 years old so they are really easy to work on.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 14:21

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But I would hate driving it, yet it would be the best option for me at this point in my life.

Sometimes the friends you don't choose are the ones you grow the most attached to. I got stuck with a pretty humdrum hatchback for a summer, in 2011, and even though there was nothing special about it, I soon grew to like it very much, if only due to its honesty. It was a bare bones base model, but it never pretented to be anything else and, for some reason, I felt I could just count on it, no questions asked. I don't have that car anymore but I still miss it sometimes.

Nibby > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 14:22

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Consider used Foresters and Outbacks too; they're great first cars.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Nibby 05/26/2014 at 14:25

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I think this is the first serious comment ive gotten from you, it feels weird.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 05/26/2014 at 14:26

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Indeed.. paint that motherfucker yellow :)

Soloburrito > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 14:29

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The man in the iron mask > scoob 05/26/2014 at 14:33

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Element is cool, but check wagon options.

Slant6 > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 14:48

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SAAB wagon. They made manuals. I have one. I carry truck tires with it. If your mom is against European tell her that they were owned by GM. They all have turbos!

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 15:05

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They weren't all like that, you can get an I6 powered first gen.

Squid > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 15:09

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It makes more sense to get the Swedish car than a Japanese car if she is going off of WW II principles. . . Save up and start looking for cheap wagons. Keep your eye out for anything that catches your fancy. The Element would be utilitarian but so would any minivan. I had a 96 grand voyager for a while, the V6 had enough power to satisfy you when you punched it but for some reason it was still able to return 30+ mpg on straight freeway cruises and upper 20's in mixed driving. The thing is they all probably rusted out up where you live because they had shitty paint. Vans can be fun, just take the seats out and you have storage, a bed, instant road side tent, or a portable shaging shack. . . They were also offered in AWD but they had a slush box. . . You could also find a 4cyl Ranger with a cab over the bed if you want the manual route. They last forever and there are plenty of things to tinker with. Just start looking at listings for around the price you want to spend and then go and get quotes on insurance for yourself and see if it is worth it to buy a cheaper car so you can get what you want to get. You are probably going to be looking at around $1,000+ a year, and just ask them what the price per year paid in full. Where there is a will, a jalop will make it happen.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Squid 05/26/2014 at 15:17

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You know a ranger with a bed cover isnt a terrible idea, its not like manual examples of those arent hard to find

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 05/26/2014 at 15:19

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Ya, I know but the prices on a first gen bronco in a condition that I can have running and driving in less than a year are way out of my price bracket

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Slant6 05/26/2014 at 15:22

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In her mind its more about perception not fact, She loved mini coopers , until I told her they were owned by bmw, Im not entirely sure she really hates them though, more like she feels like she should hate them, so she says she does

Squid > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 15:23

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I only suggested that because my friend that is in art school has one that is constantly full of materials and projects. If you look long and hard enough you can find a decent one for a decent price. They'll be cheaper than a Tacoma, or they should be.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Squid 05/26/2014 at 15:26

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ya and if I really wanted to I could do an engine swap out of a junker mustang and lower it to sedan height and then Ive got something cool

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 15:27

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Bull shit.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Soloburrito 05/26/2014 at 15:27

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It was merely an example I really do know alot, more than I can include in one article.

Squid > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 15:27

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302 out of a Mountaineer, find a junked one get the motor and ecu and wiring harness and you got a factory swap going on. The mustang route is more work.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 05/26/2014 at 15:29

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Except most of the ones in colorado turned to orange dust 25 years ago, and the ones that didnt are outrageously expensive

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 15:31

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Don't buy any car from CO. They are all like that.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Squid 05/26/2014 at 15:32

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now that would be easier, but the mustang route would create a better finished product

Squid > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 15:46

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But 302>4.6 mod. . .

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Squid 05/26/2014 at 16:12

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true

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 05/26/2014 at 16:15

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but I dont have room in my budget for shipping, plus my family owned a pawn shop so, you dont wanna have me buying something from you, I know how to get the lowest price on anything from anyone, because of this I dont wanna do ebay. you cant haggle with a computer

Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 17:49

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I'm going through the exact same thing, my mother has said that when "I'm responsible enough" I can get my license, I've had A's the whole semester, and she still hasn't done anything yet. but for a car choice The most Jalop car ever, a miata, or a Brown RWD Manual Diesel Wagon. (good luck finding one though).

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Jordaneer, The Mountaineer Man 05/26/2014 at 18:41

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With my mom it was "you can get your license when you are 18", then it was "when you graduate" I just gave up asking until she said I could get it, it wasnt worth the aggravation

naallday > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 19:03

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a great vehicle! First gen honda crv. In a manual preferably!

George McNally > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/26/2014 at 20:19

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it's at 2 grand on eBay right now .......you can't hurt this car.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > George McNally 05/26/2014 at 20:22

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This is what the griswalds need to take on their trip to wally world

Zibodiz > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/27/2014 at 03:21

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Hey I'm super late to this party (thanks recommended posts), but I find it odd that nobody else pointed out that suicide doors aren't really that useful. Sure, they look like they'd be easy to load through, but in reality, you're looking at struggling with the driver's seat, catching on the doors, etc.

What you really need for large loads is a wagon with a good hatch. I do computer repairs & installs for a living, and have to haul LOTS of tools, including at least one ladder at all times. I cover half the state of Wyoming, half of Nebraska, and a bit of Colorado, so I can't put the ladders on top; too much wind resistance. I used to have a coupe with large doors, which worked okay for getting my ladders in & out, but it got really old really fast. Sure, the seats can fold forward to give you more room to get stuff in, but that's a lot more of a hassle than it sounds.

My DD is absolutely perfect for my needs now. The awesome part is that there are a lot of manufacturers that make cars that fit the bill; the '80s & '90s were a good time for fuel efficient wagons. My brand of choice is Mazda (they made the 2nd & 3rd gen Ford Escorts), but there were many — Legacy Outback, GLC, Accord Wagon, Tercel Wagon, Omni, L-Series Wagon, Cavalier Wagon, etc. They were especially popular among American & Japanese brands; not so much the Europeans. Average fuel economy from them is high-20s to mid-30s (my Scort gets 34 on the highway with a full load), and they're all easy to work on and pretty reliable. Plus you can get extra Oppo cred for picking up a manual wagon ;-)

When I eventually wear my car out (and it's going to be a long time — it has 210k miles, 15 years old, and still drives like it's new), I'll just be upgrading to a newer version of the same thing; probably a Protege5 or possibly a Fiesta ST.

Oh, and on avoiding German cars; you're not missing out. I hate working on my parents Jetta, and would take a worn out Japanese car over a pristine VW any day. Just so much easier to work on and get parts for. I'm not sure why Japanese cars don't get more attention here on Oppo; I love them.

On a side note, does your family have direct history with the holocaust, or is it more a matter of principle? My great grandfather was of Jewish decent (though not religion), and moved out of Hungary to England when he was a teen looking for work, due to the great depression. When the war happened, he fought on behalf of the UK on a submarine, and as a translator. I can't imagine how different my life would be today—if I'd even be alive—if he hadn't moved to England when he did. I can understand not wanting anything to do with Germany or Italy.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Zibodiz 05/27/2014 at 03:50

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the element's rear seats actually come completelyout and fold up into the rear windows or you could leave them out of the car.

and my family came to the US to escape the pogroms during World War I, but we know numerous holocaust survivors, some of which are still alive.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Zibodiz 05/27/2014 at 03:58

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Also, what do you drive? Im really tired right now so I may be remembering this incorrectly. but a few months ago I remember being behind a silver neon, that had advertising for a computer repair company that was based out of state. This was on hampden and monaco in denver.

Zibodiz > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 05/27/2014 at 04:54

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That wouldn't be me; I don't advertise on my car. I take a lot of contract jobs from different corporations, and the buyers always want me to pretend that I actually work for them, so I have to drive an unmarked car.

This is my DD, and it usually has that tailrack installed (albeit with the back bar folded down), so it's kinda recognizable. http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/sometimes-you-… The cars I drove before this were a silver Sebring Convertible and a grey Civic CX.

I didn't realize the rear seats in an Element could fold like that — that actually looks really handy. The only negative thing I could really think to say about an Element, then, is that I've heard their transmissions tend to wear out prematurely. No idea how common it is, but I'd read an article a while back stating that some company was removing all of them from their fleet because of it. I think it was some sort of delivery company—-possibly a flourist or something. That having been said, MSN Autos gives it an excellent rating: http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/R…

That's a blessing that your immediate family was already in the US when WW2 started. My in-laws had family on both sides of the Berlin wall, and when they recently came to visit us, we took them to see the portion of the wall that's on display in Rapid City. Watching their reaction to seeing it was unlike anything I'd experienced before. What really struck me, was how history books can't capture the heartbreak that a torn-apart family experiences, and how deeply those scars run. It's so easy to see a grainy photo and read dates and numbers, and forget that we're reading about people's lives.