Oppo-poll: What rallylights does my BMW 2002 really need?

"Jobjoris" (Jobjoris) 05/22/2014 at 17:04 • Filed to: BMW 2002TII TOURING

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Being busy restoring my precious 2002 touring brings all kinds of upgrades to mind. Such as the 5-speed transmission swap (check!). Such as handling upgrades (hello tii-strutts/brakes, Bilstein & Eibach: check!). Such as replacing the double webers with a Kügelfischer injection (check!). One thing I'm not completely sure of is what rally-lights to mount. There will be rally-lights placed in the front, that's for sure, but what lights do I go for?

As I want to keep it a bit authentic I'll have to go back in time. The top four producers of automotive lamps in those days were: Carello, Cibié, Hella and Marchal. And Lucas to some extent. But I don't want to use English lights anyway.

At first I was convinced I had to use Hella. Weil Deutsch. But when I was thinking and googling about it a bit, I was slightly inclining to the Cibiés.

As I understand correct Cibiés should create better visibility then the rest of them. And, as I'm pretty sure I want yellow, they should be easier to obtain with yellow lenses, at least over the Hellas (new anyway as I contacted Hella about this already).

The Marchals also are French, home of the yellow lenses. And they have those great cat-logos both the lense as well the light cover, which can be either soft covers or hard covers. And yes: these covers will be used 80% of the time.

Finally Carello. I didn't see those on anything else but Italian cars a lot and I'm not sure about the quality. But 'Carello' just sounds so awesome. They're the small ones below:

And no: I won't mount a pair of each brand on and under the bumper! So Oppo please help me out:

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Brian Silvestro > Jobjoris 05/22/2014 at 08:50

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I honestly don't think you can go wrong with any of these, they all look good. Just pick one that you think would look the best on your car.

jkm7680 > Jobjoris 05/22/2014 at 17:06

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Yellow tint, covers. That would look amazing.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Jobjoris 05/22/2014 at 17:12

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I was leaning toward Cibies, but after seeing them, I'd say at least two, preferably four Carellos.

Stratos HF > Jobjoris 05/22/2014 at 17:25

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They all look good! I went with Bosch lights on my '66 benz as they were a factory option. Don't know if that matters to you, but if so, I'd ask around on the 2002 forums and see what they're running

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > Jobjoris 05/22/2014 at 17:33

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I run Cibie H4 housings on my Spider, and that was my vote. If cost were no object, Marchals would win, hands down, but if it is even a remote concern, go Cibie.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Jobjoris 05/22/2014 at 17:56

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I voted for the Cibie...but I think just a pair (instead of 4 like on the picture) would be good. Mounted lower down (bumper or that level like the lower pair on the picture) it'd look great and be functional I think.

4 lamps is just too cluttered, I think personally.

RallyWrench > Jobjoris 05/22/2014 at 20:13

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I think I've settled on yellow Cibie Oscars for my red'68 2002 when it's finally on the road again, though I've always been partial to Hellas and have had them on a couple of cars. Something about the Oscars on a bumperless 2002 just does it for me. My '64 Lancia Flavia coupe project, however, will get Carellos because Italy, and I don't think the bigger lamps will suit it well.

The only 2002 I would consider replacing mine with is a Touring, so cheers to you, sir!

Jobjoris > jkm7680 05/23/2014 at 02:22

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Yellow is what I'm looking for. Cibié also has the Oscar+ which has clear lenses but yellow bulbs, not sure if that's yellow enough for me.

Jobjoris > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/23/2014 at 02:23

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Four extra lights? That's a bit too much for me. I guess.

Jobjoris > Stratos HF 05/23/2014 at 02:27

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Good advice about the forums, will do. Didn't realise Bosch also made them? This one has Bosch, these are a bit too big I suppose:

Jobjoris > DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully 05/23/2014 at 02:32

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Why the Marchals? And are they so expensive? Not sure if they're still made, Marchal was bought by the Valeo group in '85 and I guess the brand died back then. Probably because they also own Cibié.

Jobjoris > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 05/23/2014 at 02:34

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I totally agree, it will be max 2 extra lights, the picture was just an example of Cibiés. I will mount them on the two bars sticking out the front which support the bumber if you know what I mean (not sure how to call those in English) .

Jobjoris > RallyWrench 05/23/2014 at 02:41

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If I'm going for Cibiés it probably will be Oscars(+) as well. 18cm, not too big. Will mount a bumper though, that way it's easier to mount them as well without damaging anything.

I've got two tourings for that matter, you can see what I'm up to with them by the tag bmw 2002tii touring . One has to go eventually, it's mainly use was for it's parts. But maybe I'll try to save that anyway.

When do you have planned your '68 to be ready?

Jobjoris > Brian Silvestro 05/23/2014 at 03:40

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I honestly think you're right. But one of the best parts of being busy with a projectcar is the fact you can weigh up different alternatives, read about it and making a decision based on certain pros and cons of your own requirements. At least, that's the way it works for me. And if I can get help in this process from other great minds alike: Even better. Seems to be a consensus on the Cibiés, which I myself had a slight favour of when making this poll. But those Marchals seem to grow on me.

jkm7680 > Jobjoris 05/23/2014 at 05:58

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There's always extra tinting I believe, in the form of film. The more yellow, the better Haha.

Brian Silvestro > Jobjoris 05/23/2014 at 07:44

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You know how to go about this kind of thing quite well.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Jobjoris 05/23/2014 at 10:57

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That sounds excellent. You should post pictures of your car up sometime!

And I don't think anyone knows what those bars are called...just pick a name and pretend you know what you're talking about :)

Jobjoris > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 05/23/2014 at 12:16

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Just follow this tag: Bmw 2002tii touring ! I update the process there once in a while.

I just looked into the parts catalog, guess how BMW calls them theirselves? Bars ! I really know what I'm talking about ;-)

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Jobjoris 05/23/2014 at 12:58

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oh my...she's going to be a beauty when she's all done. Those E21 Recaros! I've always loved those way more than even the sport seats on my E30.

Jobjoris > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 05/23/2014 at 13:29

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I sure hope! The Recaro's are going to the shop next week to have new upholstery. I've decided to go for black leather with the inner sides of the leather perforated. Should become something like:

Just the holes will have more distance between them to have a somewhat more authentic look.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Jobjoris 05/23/2014 at 13:34

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Gorgeous. Where are you located again?

Stratos HF > Jobjoris 05/23/2014 at 13:37

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They're on the larger size, but not too crazy.

You can see them on my car in these before and after shots:

Before:

And after:

Just excuse the boring Lexus SUV in the background, that is NOT my car.... And I tried to convince the owner to at least buy something less...boring.

Bosch is definitely worth a look to keep it in the German family, but it'll depend on what they make that fits the look of your car. You can also go the NOS look as I did (they're 1960's Bosch lamps I sourced through an old man in Germany)

Let me know if you need any help tracking some old German lamps down!

Jobjoris > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 05/23/2014 at 13:43

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Breda. The Netherlands.

Jobjoris > Stratos HF 05/23/2014 at 13:53

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Awesome! A W111, is it a 3.5 or a 2.8? Good position of the Bosches: This way the US-blinkers don't stand out so much ;-)

That Lexus RX actually is not such a bad car. If the owner had something on the side that is!

Well, if your German contact has Hellas, Carellos, Cibiés, Marchals or Bosches with yellow lenses NOS, max 20 cm diameter and matching covers just let me know!

RallyWrench > Jobjoris 05/23/2014 at 16:56

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Well, car plans don't mean much as I have a 2 year old, so it may be awhile! It's hard to find time to work on it after fixing other people's cars all day. I'll consider myself lucky & ahead of schedule if it sees the road again in 2 years.

The bottom end of the engine is together, but the E12 head is not yet. It's got 9.5:1 Mahle pistons, bored .030" over, with Raceware studs. I have a Schrick 304 cam that I've decided will be too much for street use, so I'm after a 292, then I'll get the top end done & rebuild the DCOEs. The suspension is currently off the car too, to get the subframes powdercoated. That'll all go back together with Ireland bits that are waiting in boxes next to the car. I've also got to get the 5-speed fitted. Lots yet to do, but it'll be a great day when I start it again. Seeing others making progress is fine motivation in the meantime!

Jobjoris > RallyWrench 05/24/2014 at 14:06

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Ha! That two year old (well, almost) is walking around the house here as well so I know what your talking about. But mine was scheduled to be ready this summer but that's not gonna work, 2014 is still manageable. But I've got some help for a lot of technicalities (engine conversion to a Kügelfischer tii, rebuild a Getrag 245 5-speed, bodywork) luckily. But mine won't be as racy as yours with all these nice nifty parts, my wife wants to take it in summer to work.

At this moment I'm wondering a bit what to do with the 'donor'-car, maybe that could take a lot of years if I'm keeping and going to rebuild that as well ;-)

Stratos HF > Jobjoris 05/25/2014 at 12:31

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She's actually a W 112 300SE , but thank you! They look great covering up the torpedo blinkers for sure, and nothing beats that awesome light pattern in my mind.

I'll take a look and see what he has, and forward you along his info!

Jobjoris > Stratos HF 05/26/2014 at 02:50

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Oops, forgot that the 2-doors had it's own chassis number, right? Can't you just lose those torpedos?

Thanks for the help!

Stratos HF > Jobjoris 05/27/2014 at 10:40

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Yeah the 2-door gets the 112 #. I wish I could, but in NY they're needed for inspection and registration for some reason - so I'd have to source or figure out a conversion or replacement, and really I'm looking to leave it as stock (or stock looking) as possible to retain value

Jobjoris > Stratos HF 05/27/2014 at 14:11

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Well, original EU-spec was without the torpedos, right? So you'll just make it more original again. And with that 25-year rule you have over there I figured: who needs torpedos after those 25 years?

Original EU they were next to the headlights, shouldn't be that hard to reproduce to replace them (doesn't yours have running-lights or something over there?):

Stratos HF > Jobjoris 05/27/2014 at 14:44

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Actually the dual stack lights are US Spec only, the Euro lights are a single unit. Mine is a US Spec car from construction, so any change like that would ruin originality and require bodywork to replace them. (My Dad has a Euro-Spec that he bought off a German who owned it from new and he does not have torpedos, but has the euro lights)