Is the GT40 really American?

"JR1" (type35bugatti)
05/21/2014 at 16:26 • Filed to: Ford GT40, $kaybait, Carroll Shelby, John Wyer

Photo Credit: Superformance.com

Everyone here knows the hollowed story of Ford in the 1960's and their victories at Le Mans. What some people might not know perhaps is that the original MkI was designed not by American engineers but English. Under John Wyer the ex head of Aston Martin racing they created the original Ford GT40.

That being said under John Wyer the GT40 program was also somewhat of a laughing stock. They were unable to finish at two of the most important races of the year Le Mans and the 1000km of Nurburgring. Henery Ford II was so upset with the results that he relinquished control from Wyer and sent the Gt40s directly to Carroll Shelby. They left Europe so fast that Wyer didn't even have time to clean the cars after their final race.

Once they arrived at Carroll's shop in Venice in 1964 the team got to work on designing the cars for the 1965 season. Right out of the gate the Gt40's with new and improved engines under Shelby's guidance won the 12 hours of Sebring. It wasn't until the 1966 season that the Gt40s truly became a dominate force. Finishing 1-2-3 and Le Mans in the 7.0 MkII. The consecutive year again under the guidance of Shelby the MkIV won Le Mans (The only all American built effort to ever win.) In 1968 and 1969 the Ford GT40 would take first places at Le Mans under the guidance of John Wyer in the MkI.

The question becomes was the GT40 really one of America's greatest cars or are Americans being unfair and selfish and not giving the English enough credit in the final design? Is the car English? Or should the two countries auto enthusiast stop bickering about it and just accept it was an excellent group effort that achieved greatness? Not to sway opinion but my personal belief was that if it wasn't for American involvement the GT40 would have just been a laughing stock and a small blip in racing history. Maybe you can sway my opinion.

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DISCUSSION (33)

Tom McParland > JR1
05/21/2014 at 16:29

Yes yes it is...now you eat a hamburger and shut your apple pie hole.

For real though one time there was a QOTD on best "American Design" and I nominated the GT40....FP folks hammered me

The Transporter > JR1
05/21/2014 at 16:31

This is the sixth time we've debated whether or not the GT40 is American

Kinja'd!!!

and we have become exceedingly good at it.

$kaycog > JR1
05/21/2014 at 16:31

This has always been a debate and always will be. I don't debate.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > JR1
05/21/2014 at 16:39

You could contest that initial development being under the aegis of Ford made them American, that the project leadership made them British, and that refinement under Carroll Shelby made them significantly more American again, as did Foyt/Gurney. The whole picture is one without a conclusive claim by anyone, because there isn't one to be had. That is to say,

Kinja'd!!!

indeed.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Tom McParland
05/21/2014 at 16:41

That's because they're incapable of processing questions that have more than one correct answer. See also: the Miata debate, the GM lethality debate, the diesel debate... anything, really.

CRider > JR1
05/21/2014 at 16:44

It's as American as pizza- sure, it might have roots in Europe, but it's fucking American. We perfected it and made it what it is today. It's an American icon. The early British GT40s were shit. The winning cars are American.

Forgetful > The Transporter
05/21/2014 at 16:45

Debate Level: Master

JR1 > $kaycog
05/21/2014 at 16:45

Awe I was hoping our foremost expert on the Ford GT would have the conclusive answer.

JR1 > The Transporter
05/21/2014 at 16:46

Really? Guess I am showing my freshman status by bringing it up again.

JR1 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
05/21/2014 at 16:47

BECAUSE THE CAR IS TOO DAMN GOOD TO BE SHARED THATS WHY!!!! Maybe South Africa deserves the title because of the kick ass replicas?

$kaycog > JR1
05/21/2014 at 16:47

I'm far from being an expert, but thanks for that! :D

JR1 > Tom McParland
05/21/2014 at 16:48

See you have to be smart about it and nominate the MkIV then they can't argue with you! Honestly though I have always felt the car to be more American than English but I am a little biased.

JR1 > CRider
05/21/2014 at 16:49

Exactly how I feel! Thanks for the back up

JR1 > $kaycog
05/21/2014 at 16:49

More of an expert than me I am sure! Have you ever gotten a ride in one?

PS9 > JR1
05/21/2014 at 16:51

Short Answer: Yes.

Long answer: The Camry's as japanese as a cheeseburger, the Camaro is as 'murican as a maple leaf and you may as well change Earth's name to Bavaria, because BMW makes their shit EVERYWHERE (seriously, go to wikipedia and look up country of origin for the 3 and 5 series. Antarctica and the north pole are the only continents that don't have BMW factories on them.)

"The Camry is a Japanese car" is a statement no one questions despite all of the infrastructure used to produce the Camry residing in the United States. BMW gets to make it's German luxury cars wherever it wants. The Canadian Camaro is a potent symbol of 'murican muscle car performance. To argue whether or not Ford gets to call it's GT40 a truly american car, is to also argue that we still live in an era where a given manufacturer's national identity is still tied to it's products country of origin. It's not. It hasn't been for many decades. That's done. That was over once it was clear global talent and infrastructure was going to be necessary to build cars that could compete in the worlds auto markets.

"The GT40 was designed and built by english people, so it's not american." Okay, then BMWs are [Insert whatever continent you want here], Camry's are american, and Camaros are Canadian.

$kaycog > JR1
05/21/2014 at 16:53

I did in a new one when my Ford Store got one in for a customer. It was insane! When I saw its commercial in the 2004 Super Bowl, I fell in love. The owner of the Ford Store knew I was nuts about them, and he called me one Saturday and said he was picking me up to go for coffee. When I saw that Ford GT parked in front of my house, I cried a little. Unbelievable. Guys followed us until we stopped at the coffee shop to see what the heck they were seeing. I haven't been the same since.

JR1 > PS9
05/21/2014 at 16:53

Sometimes I really wish the world was just a little more black and white.

JR1 > $kaycog
05/21/2014 at 16:55

I sincerely hope one day you have the pleasure of owning one $kay. It must have been quite an experience.

$kaycog > JR1
05/21/2014 at 16:57

Thanks.........me too.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > JR1
05/21/2014 at 16:59

At the end of the day a point could be made that just about any car isn't from any one place. I think it's the country it races for, the home of the brand has on its grill or hood and another good question to ask is: with what identity did the car grow up?

Someone uses the Camaro as a good example, built in Canada, but it is always identified as an American icon. It grew up with an American identity, or at least the perception there-of, so therefore it is American!

Bluecold > JR1
05/21/2014 at 17:05

What's damn sure is that it might be time for americans to get their act together and win the Le Mans P1 once again. I'm getting sooo tired from hearing 'yeah but did you hear that Ferd beat Fewrawri aeons ago?'. We get it. Ford won that one time. Big whoop. The Porsche 956/962 won more. Even Ferrari won more times than Ford.

In any case, I love mentioning that Carrol Shelby only worked out a few kinks on a car designed by the Brits. Which makes it a british car.

Cé hé sin > CRider
05/21/2014 at 17:10

You're nearly right. There were four models of GT40, called with stunning originality, the MkI, MkII, MkIII and...MkIV.

The MkIV was the only one made in America and indeed won, albeit only twice. The other two LM and various other wins were by the other models, although as Americans are very quick to point out they were raced by Shelby.

CRider > Cé hé sin
05/21/2014 at 17:23

It's important that those cars were being raced by Shelby when they won, they made a few important changes to the British design. They swapped in a bigger engine, for one thing. The program run the the Brits were doing so bad the program was almost killed off, before Shelby saved it.

JR1 > Bluecold
05/21/2014 at 17:23

Funded by Americans and won with American power trains.

CAcoalminer > $kaycog
05/21/2014 at 18:00

Don't sell yourself short my dear $kay. You are definitely a GT/GT40 expert.

$kaycog > CAcoalminer
05/21/2014 at 18:06

What a sweet thing to say, but I'm really not an expert.

The Transporter > JR1
05/21/2014 at 19:25

This debate is as old as the hills.

The Transporter > JR1
05/21/2014 at 19:26

That being said, I will say that the GT40 was a British car...

...that Carol Shelby fixed.

Ronan Seal > The Transporter
06/18/2014 at 19:25

Spot on answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ronan Seal > CRider
06/18/2014 at 19:35

If the Americans had designed it it would of been 16ft long 8ft wide and would not of gone round corners! Guess that's because they don't have corners out there unfortunately there are corners at le-mans!... Fully English designed but with American muscle added!....lol

Ronan Seal > JR1
06/18/2014 at 19:38

But what would you put your fantastic power trains in if it wasn't for the British designed and built GT40?..... Yes a lorry....lol

CRider > Ronan Seal
06/18/2014 at 19:53

If you're trying to be funny, you just sound like an idiot.

Ronan Seal > JR1
06/21/2014 at 08:44

Completely wrong. Funded built and designed by the British just look at its not American only has American engine. I believe they had German batteries fitted too does that make it a German car?.... No