Caddy and Jag need to stop competing with the Germans of the 90s

"PardonMyFlemish16" (TheCoolKid) 05/18/2014 at 15:36 • Filed to: None

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Let me just start by saying I want Caddy and Jaguar (and for that matter, Lincoln, Hyundai/Kia and Chrysler and every auto manufacturer) to succeed. But what exactly is success in the auto industry? Selling cars at a profit. Making cars that are desirable and reliable. Making logical, realistic sales goals and meeting or beating them. Caddy, Jag, and many folks on the internet seem to make the mistake that the way forward is to become what the Germans were ~20 years ago. But this won't work. To show you what I mean, let's compare BMW and Mercedes to Caddy & Jag and show exactly why Caddy & Jag are dooming themselves to failure on their current path.

What are BMW & Mercedes doing today?

In a word, diversifying. Look at the 3 series- this platform has spawned a 2 coupes, 2 convertibles, a wagon, an ugly Accord Crosstour hatchback, a sleek Gran Coupe, and 3 SUVs. Let me just put some pictures up to really drive this point home.

Etc. etc.

Just from the 3 series platform alone, BMW offers a wider range of cars than Caddy and Jaguar's entire lineups. Both BMW and Mercedes are also moving downmarket, which some folks object to strongly but has worked great as far as adding volume and getting new buyers goes. People thumb their noses at the CLA until you realize it's as competent and luxurious as a 190E, which cost an equivalent of $60K in today's money. Neither Caddy nor Jag have anything in that realm, and their previous half-assed attempts have become entry level luxury punchlines (Cimarron, X-Type) that the industry has had to work hard to overcome.

Benz and Mercedes also have full, thorough SUV lineups, including the critically important and fast growing small luxury CUV segment. X1, X3, X4, X5, X6 and rumors are abound for an X7.... GLA, ML, GL, GLK etc etc etc. I know big luxury SUVs are not very Jalop.... but the X5 added 100K of units to BMW's global sales from 2003 on.

And of course, you can't forget their far forward looking stuff. BMW's i cars are supposed game changers, with their longer range and more importantly mass production CF manufacturing techniques... they are making very important cars. MB continues to be at the forefront of diesel tech and is also dabbling in hybrids.

This image was lost some time after publication.

So they aren't just making luxury cars, they are making important ones too.

What are Caddy & Jaguar doing?

Well, there are some things they are doing, but there are some really important things they are NOT doing. They are making good, competitive cars. They have completely moved away from their troubled pasts. They are, for the most part, financially solvent.

But what they AREN'T doing is where the trouble is. Where is the press generating innovation and technology? There is no Jag or Caddy anyone could call "high tech" compared to its competition, and Jag scrapping the C-X75 was a real blow to their image of commitment to the future. Where is the premium small SUV, which is arguably the hottest segment in the entire auto market???? Yes Jag is part of JLR which has the Evoque, but why not get in on the action? Lord knows they need it- Land Rover outsells Jaguar by 3:1 in the US alone, and was still up more than 2:1 before the Evoque but after the Jag revival. I mean to really put things in context, Land Rover sold almost as many Range Rover Sports as Jaguar sold CARS in 2013. And Jag doesn't have an SUV. As VWAG shows you can rebadge the hell out of an SUV and sell them by the ton... so why isn't Jaguar???? Cadillac's SRX is 5 years old and just not competitive.

People always talk about how you can't compete with the Germans without 3/5/7 fighters... but guess what... !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , needing rebates within 1-2 years of its release, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! The XF's sales are similarly weak, hitting only about 10% of what a 5 series or E class does in all the same markets, and I'm certain the XE will suffer a similar fate. Why? The German's bread and butter sedans, as well as cars like the IS, A4, etc., sell on loyalty and familiarity. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , and people are starting to realize this.... without the right emblem, people won't drop $40-50 large on one if they can have a more practical + equally luxurious SUV and sales show this. Hell, the Germans themselves are in on that game.

So what do Caddy and Jaguar need to do?

Well they have already invested in their "Bimmer beater" platforms so they have to ride that out. But they NEED more SUVs, and they NEED to leverage the hell out of their existing platforms. Instead of a dowdy ATS coupe with the same exact profile as the sedan, why not a small SUV, or an ATS hatchback "gran coupe"? Same with the XE. They should also give up any hope of competing at the flagship level- !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and the new S-Class might be the nail in its coffin. They need to make cars that are striking and stylish- not anonymous like the ATS or dated like the XF. The XJ is a good start but in the wrong market.

Performance and handling are also growing less and less relevant to the market at large... people want luxury and technology. Cadillac's CUE interface is an outright failure that can't be rectified with chassis tuning that its market doesn't care about in the first place. Jag's radio/nav systems are like 1-2 generations behind the current crop. They both need to leapfrog the competition in this regard.

And finally Caddy needs to focus on markets that make sense. GM keeps trying to push in the Europe and Europe is just not having it. Take that money and fix CUE + make more LWB cars for China.

Germany abandoned the "German model" in the late 90s with the release of the ML and X5 and completely forgot about it once they really cashed in on the whole "niche" thing. Caddy, Jag and all the other struggling luxury marques would be wise to abandon it too and go the way the market is telling them to.

dogisbadob > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 15:43

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4-series sedan :p

rauth > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 15:51

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Problem is, sales marketing and finance people get promoted to exec positions in these companies, not engineers.

Nitzer Ebblestone > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 15:52

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Benz and Mercedes

Same thing. BMW & Mercedes maybe?

Carwood > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 15:52

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Jag is certainly building momentum. I think a lot will ride on their 3 series fighter. Id really like to see that SUV though, its design is great and would totally go head to head with the x3/q5 crowd.

Bytemite > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 15:52

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Why does Caddy and Jag need to make more SUVs? Why in the world do people still buy SUVs? So they can ride higher and block the view for everyone else? It is just the dumbest vehicle choice people can make, yet you're encouraging automakers to build more of these gas-guzzling, fake off-road cars on heels.

All you ever see on these SUV advertising is dirt trails and gravel roads where any car, even lowered, could run on.

crazycar > dogisbadob 05/18/2014 at 15:53

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GeorgeyBoy > Bytemite 05/18/2014 at 15:55

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Because they sell?

dogisbadob > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 15:56

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Does Jaguar need an SUV though? That's what Land Rover is for. Maybe their owners are worried about cannibalizing the latter. And Land Rover probably has a higher profit margin. And what would a Jaguar SUV look like?

In terms of sales and profitability though, the X-Type didn't really "fail" did it? I thought it had sold fairly well, and it may very well still be the best-selling Jaguar of all time even though it was designed in Detroit. Anyways, this might also make Tata nervous about doing too much badge engineering being afraid of damaging the brand. Also, the X-Type wagon is awesome.

Why can't these cars have as much success as the Lexus ES series, which is just a rebadged Camry (well now it's an Avalon, but even then it's a LWB Camry)?

The second-gen SRX was a step backward from the original.

I'd like to see entry-level luxury cars that start in the low 20s. The A-class hatchback, a new Infiniti G20, an Integra (Honda could just rebadge the Euro Civic hatch as an Acura for over here), the A1 and A3 hatchbacks, something below the ATS.

Cadillac's real mistake was increasing their prices too soon. They are NOT ready to compete without a price advantage. The CTS was good as a 5-series for the price of a 3, and the ATS should start 5-10k lower than it does. This strategy is how Lexus got the market share it has besides the invincible 90s Toyota quality.

dogisbadob > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 15:58

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this B-pillar is way too wide, especially for a car with frameless windows! The glass is supposed to completely cover the outside of the B-pillar :O

Pitchblende > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 15:59

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Have you forgotten that Jaguar and Land Rover are the same company? Which is why Jag have been neglecting the SUV market, they are already building them under a brand established just to make that kind of vehicle.

crazycar > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 15:59

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Tony Foo > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:01

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Not a good nor researched article. Many could say that the platform prostituting BMV is doing will hurt it in the long run. The problem with all of those different variants is that if sales begin to lag, then some of that nonsense, like the X's will sit on lots unsold.

Personally, I'd own a Cady or Jag, before either of the Germans. Cady and Jag have style and substance.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Bytemite 05/18/2014 at 16:02

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What about gas guzzling luxury cars? What about gas guzzling sports cars that never see a track? Do you complain about those too? If not, stop being a hypocrite.

Also, do you really think a blog post is going to influence the decisions of a multi billion dollar company? Do you really think you have that much power? Don't be stupid.

Car companies are in the business of turning profits. I don't like any car Caddy or Jaguar makes and wouldn't buy any of them, but I want them to be successful anyway because they are good companies.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Tony Foo 05/18/2014 at 16:03

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So you claim my post isn't well researched, despite being full of links and figures, and then respond with what "many could say"? Lmao.

MTY85 > Bytemite 05/18/2014 at 16:04

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Because people prefer larger vehicles to smaller ones.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Pitchblende 05/18/2014 at 16:05

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No, I didn't. Read the article.

Yes Jag is part of JLR which has the Evoque, but why not get in on the action? Lord knows they need it- Land Rover outsells Jaguar by 3:1 in the US alone, and was still up more than 2:1 before the Evoque but after the Jag revival. I mean to really put things in context, Land Rover sold almost as many Range Rover Sports as Jaguar sold CARS in 2013. And Jag doesn't have an SUV. As VWAG shows you can rebadge the hell out of an SUV and sell them by the ton... so why isn't Jaguar?

boxrocket > Bytemite 05/18/2014 at 16:05

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I agree with traditional body-on-frame SUVs, those are mostly useless outside of rural or sub-rural areas. Crossovers, though, benefit from a slightly taller ride height and with the naturally higher seat height allowing for easier ingress and egress, plus additional cargo space compared to their sedan brethren. I'd rather have a Mazda CX-5 than a Mazda3 (even the hatch!) due to the ease of ingress/egress, plus the higher rear seats for future car seats and boosters for kiddos, but if they offered a Mazda6 wagon in the US, especially with optional AWD, it would be a harder decision.

IvanaTinkle > crazycar 05/18/2014 at 16:08

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Failure.

djmt1 > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:11

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Is it truly fair to compare Cadillac and Jaguar to the Big German Trio.

Cadillac is apart of GM so what point would there be to diversifying their line up, wouldn't the other parts of GM have that covered or do you believe Cadillac should look to be more like Audi in particular who despite being apart of the VW group has a rather extensive lineup.

Jaguar on the other hand, have had to pretty much start from scratch after Ford ran them into the ground, so expecting them to immediately start pumping out models across various different categories does seem optimistic. Keep in mind they have had to design their own Engines & Platforms and deal with creating a new image all in a relatively short amount of time so you can forgive them for being sluggish out the gate. Anyway they have said they plan to launch a new model every year, including a small SUV to compete with the Evoque (Why? I have no idea) and if first of these new models, that being the F-Type is anything to go by Jaguar will be fine.

crazycar > IvanaTinkle 05/18/2014 at 16:13

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If so it's a glorious one.

RichardNixon72 > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:14

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Cadillac needs to make American luxury cars again, cars that were in-your-face, outrageous, gaudy, and domineering. A BMW competitor here and there is acceptable, but stop making the entire lineup 'handle like a BMW' because BMW handling is Godawful on anything but a track.

IvanaTinkle > crazycar 05/18/2014 at 16:16

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Not that either.

RMudkips > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:16

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I swear there was a Jag SUV concpet from not too long ago. Your opinion that these makes should make SUVs ifor profits is right, but at the same time you've angered some Jalops. We need to remember that the Cayenne is part of what made Porsche profitable.

area man > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:17

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His Stigness? Is that you?

Sam Payne > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:17

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I just want this one. You can keep all the others.

PardonMyFlemish16 > RichardNixon72 05/18/2014 at 16:17

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I don't know if the handling is god awful... I think BMWs are great off the track actually.

But I agree wholeheartedly that Caddy needs to find its roots. They are essentially building store brand BMWs, which- SURPRISE!!!!- nobody wants, being that a huge factor in luxury car purchases is the brand. They need a car that is bold and unmistakedly American like the Chrysler 300 was when it came out, but modern and relevant to the market demands of today.

crazycar > IvanaTinkle 05/18/2014 at 16:18

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A premature conclusion.

PardonMyFlemish16 > RMudkips 05/18/2014 at 16:19

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There is a Jag SUV coming, but I think it's a midsizer, rather than something like an Evoque or Cajun.

And odds are if a car company is angering Jalops, it's making the right business decision. If you asked an archetypal Jalop what the best run car companies of the last decade were, they'd probably reply "Lotus, Saab, Mitsubishi"

Axial > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:20

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BMW and Mercedes are not really dedicated luxury brands. BMW and Mercedes are mass market economy car brands that happen to also have some really expensive and well-endowed options.

Cadillac and Jaguar, on the other hand, are luxury subdivisions of much larger entities. They have parents who feed them money generated from the sales of less posh mass market automobiles. As such, they have the...erm....luxury...of catering to audiences that they select themselves. With their current offerings, they are doing fine. Maybe not as well as they'd hoped, but they aren't hurting. There are other things they need to work on before they should worry about spamming the market with new models.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Axial 05/18/2014 at 16:22

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All the more reason Jag n Caddy shouldn't be looking to go head to head with BMW & Benz's most mass market models. A 3 series is just a New England Camry.

Axial > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:22

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You cited them while substituting the context of each with your own. The low sales are the result of a historical reputation deficit, and in fact the cars you mentioned as being weak (in particular, the ATS) is actually mentioned as being strong and bringing more customers from BMW, etc., to the Cadillac brand.

In short, those cars are selling quite well and are helping to improve the brand's reputation.

As for Jaguar...they are not going for marketshare, they are going for profit margin. It's nice to have both, but Apple has proven it's unnecessary to do so.

nchockey > Tony Foo 05/18/2014 at 16:24

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So, IF people tire of what BMW is doing...IF they don't keep up with the times...IF sales lag...then cars will go unsold.

By your logic, all GM and Jag has to do is wait for people to get sick of BMW, hope they don't adapt their platform, and THEN they'll pick up market share.

Please tell me you don't own a business.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:25

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You seem to forget about the Escalade; Just the best selling luxury SUV for how long? Pretty much since the second generation was introduced in 2003.

And remind me why Cadillac shouldn't be charging a premium price for a premium car? I'm pretty sure I've read in multiple places that Cadillac's materials and levels of craftsmanship rival or beat most of the Germans.

Yes, Cue needs some work, but it isn't nearly as horrible as say, first generation iDrive. And remember Cue is on it's first generation and constantly improving.

Cadillac has more luxury SUVs coming. There's going to be an updated SRX in a matter of years, as well as a 3-row crossover that slots in between SRX and Escalade. If you want something smaller, you get a Buick Encore.

What was that about not caring about the future?

Also, Cadillac is know for it's huge, overpowered, and luxurious sedans. So a A8/S-Class/7-Series fighter makes perfect sense.

Cadillac is just now getting back on it's feet as a "Standard of the World." They don't have the market or leverage the Germans have to introduce all these niche models that will go out of fashion in 3 years. They're also doing better than they have been in a long time financially. People WANT to buy their cars again.

So I'm sorry, but you're just wrong when it comes to Cadillac.

Klaus Schmoll > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:27

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"GM keeps trying to push in the Europe and Europe is just not having it."

This isn't entirely true. Cadillacs are sold only at less than a dozen Opel dealerships in Germany. There is almost no marketing (no TV ads, no ads in ink and paper publications and so on). About 98% of the European population are oblivious to the fact that the brand they perceive as having built those pink, heavily finned, Elvis mobiles is now producing cars that are pretty close to their A4s, C-classes, or 3-series.

With some marketing, and a real diesel option, which they could easily get from Opel, they could actually sell some cars, but in reality, Caddy sells less cars than Ferrari or Lamborghini in this market. (Around 180 new Caddys registered last year, some of them might be dealer cars and press fleet and the like...)

What they did try to push on us were the Daewoos that they rebadged a "Chevrolets". Tons of advertising, a lot of dealerships on the ground, only to sell shitty cars to customers who couldn't afford something else. They destroyed the brand name Chevrolet in Europe for generations to come, only to slightly cannibalize Opel sales. Well, they seem to have realized the error of their doings and are retreating from this market.

Cadillac? They aren't even trying!

nchockey > Bytemite 05/18/2014 at 16:27

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Why in the world do people buy sports cars? So they can sit lower and stay out of view of everyone else? It's just the dumbest vehicle choice people can make, yet you're encouraging automakers to build more of these gas-guzzling, fake track cars with penis envy.

All you ever see on advertising is the Nurburgring and other tracks, where almost no sports cars will run on.

oldirtybootz > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:32

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This...I can't even....

ReaperChief > Bytemite 05/18/2014 at 16:35

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Jag does SUVs.. They're called Land Rovers/Range Rovers

Axial > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:35

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No argument there, but BMW and Mercedes are trying to move down-market and they don't have other brands to do that with. That's something Cadillac and Jag don't have to worry about, on account of being subsidized by GM and Tata. There's nothing wrong with letting your subdivisions specialize in certain market areas. FIAT does it with Ferrari vs Maserati. The brands are not suffering for it. What they are suffering from is executives pushing for higher pricing before the reputation has been re-established.

Troll is English for Troll > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:36

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Call me heretic, I like the way the back slopes on the 4-Series Gran Coupe. 10/10 Would DD.

Pitchblende > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:38

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Brand dilution, the same reason that Jaguar do not offer a small car. You can bet this has been argued back and forth in the JLR head office, but there is no point in spending the money styling and marketing a Range Rover as a Jag if all they are going to do is pull customers off buying a Range Rover, they have to convince the money men it is worth the investment.

jh4na1 > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:43

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I always found it amusing that BMW and Audi on one side, and Jaguar and Cadillac on the other, are rushing toward each other in terms of philosophy.

Cliche #1: BMWs are getting softer, bigger, more focused on luxury at the expense of handling. Unlikely to see roads other than between the office, shopping center and nail salon, they are a safe choice for someone to announce to the world that they've made it, they've arrived.

Cliche #2: Caddies are getting smaller and taughter, and while they might have a rubbish infotainment system, they're honed to be driven hard, like they are trying to make some kind of ultimate driving machine.

Atomic Buffalo > Bytemite 05/18/2014 at 16:43

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How appropriate that you're using twenty-year-old arguments.

People buy crossovers because they're more practical transportation than sedans. They're easier to get in and out of, easier to get kids and packages in and out of, and are better for making big Costco hauls.

Of course it doesn't matter whether people's reasons for spending money on luxury crossovers are smart or vain, as long as the companies who want to profit from those customers understand them and make products that fit. To that end, tired old anti-SUV rants have no value here.

AWESOM-O > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:45

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So what should Jag and Caddy be doing? You could argue that they should shoot for a high volume, electric sports sedan, to compete with the baby Tesla (a 3-series fighter) that is coming out in 2016. That said, I'm doubt they have the time and resources to close he technology gap with Tesla.

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:49

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I rarely get this upfront with anything written here, but I have to say this: your article was poor.

For starters, the way it's written is awful. Multiple question marks do not emphasize your question, they only make you look dumb. Replacing words with signs ("+", "&") makes it look like it was written in a hurry and defintively do not do any good for professionalism, which is terribly lacking. There are several other examples I could point out in your piece. You definitively need to improve on that area, or at least start caring.

As for your premise, it's far more flawed than you may think at first. Cadillac and Jaguar never had the same volume or aura of BMW and Mercedes-Benz. The clients of those manufacturers are far more elitist and very likely to feel alienated if their car manufacturer of preference goes that mainstream. Alienating customers is grounds for failure as far as the market goes. In a market, there will always be space for those who dare differently, simply because they are different and people like difference. The problem Cadillac and Jaguar had during years was more related to the fact their product was empirically very inferior to the German competition. Ask GM's execs, they will admit themselves they're not trying to compete directly with the Germans.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/18/2014 at 16:49

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"Escalade; Just the best selling luxury SUV for how long?"

Lol, ummm, never? Definitely not recently, X5 outsold it 3 to 1 last year.

"And remind me why Cadillac shouldn't be charging a premium price for a premium car?"

Well for starters I never said that, but in any case, part of being "premium" is having a brand image that means something and people want. Caddy doesn't have that, which is why it doesn't make sense for them to charge for their ATS what BMW charges for an actual 3 series. A 3 series would not be worth what it is without that roundel on the hood... doesn't make sense but that's how the luxury market works.

"Also, Cadillac is know for it's huge, overpowered, and luxurious sedans."

Lmao, such as? The Fleetwood 8-6-4 that nearly closed the US diesel market? The FWD STS with a powerful engine but horrible transmission and chassis? The underpowered, warmed over, rushed to market, not luxurious at all Catera? The tupperware interior'd 1G CTS? The 80K XLR with less HP and the same interior quality as the Corvette it was based on and cost 2x the price of? If Caddy is known for anything its for coming up with a half decent idea, and then executing it horribly. Most recent one is CUE, which you had to compare to a 12 year old BMW interface to play damage control on. Cars like the ATS & CTS are good objectively, but qualitatively they threw in the towel. They basically said 'we can't come up with an original idea so we are just going to copy what the Germans did in 1993'. If the first thing that comes to mind when you mention a car (ATS) is another car from another brand (3-series) the first car failed at establishing an identity, which is paramount in the luxury car game.

Look, I am not going to knock you for being a fanboy... we are all fanboys of something. But being a fanboy doesn't mean you are immune from being objective and looking at the facts. Cadillac only started to build decent cars in the last 10 years and they are still not 100% competitive objectively, and they have close to zero desirability. They need to change their game plan if that is a priority.

oldirtybootz > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:51

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"If you asked an archetypal Jalop what the best run car companies of the last decade were, they'd probably reply "Lotus, Saab, Mitsubishi""

Lolwut?

msquare > Axial 05/18/2014 at 16:51

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Excellent point, and the author even admitted Jaguar had Range Rover to offer a line of SUV's. GM has Chevy and GMC. Also remember Buick indeed offers different-sized SUV's. So the pressure on Caddy to do likewise is somewhat diminished.

bobkustofawitshz > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:53

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I must respectfully disagree. While the sheeple these days may buy those ugly bloated things because of the badge, BMW is a shell of its former self, and Mercedes is starting to follow it down that shameful path. For example, here is some of what the Germans were producing during the 90s:

And here is some of the utter shit they're putting out now:

Ultimate driving machine? How many BMWs are still sold with a manual, anyway? I love what Cadillac & Jaguar are doing for, among other things, the fact that they are keeping things simple and reinventing themselves around a strong lineup of traditional luxury cars - pretty damn good ones at that. Sedans make plenty of sense for most people. For the rest, does anybody really need more than 2 SUVs in the lineup? Speaking of that 5-year old SRX, isn't it Cadillac's best seller? As for Jaguar, I'll admit the XF is getting a bit long in the tooth. But the XJ has presence, the interior is exquisite, and from some reviews I've read, it is the car to get in the segment if you actually enjoy driving. The F-type speaks for itself.

Frankly, and this is just my personal opinion, in this market I care about style, performance, fit & finish. I don't give two shits about "technology". Navigation, active cruise, lane departure warning, blind spot assist, night vision, magic ride control... I can do without all of it. Not to mention every single one of those things will break and cost thousands of dollars to fix. No thanks.

Beauty is, of course, in the eye of the beholder; you call this dowdy & anonymous...

...I think it's refreshingly clean and gorgeous. In any event, both Jaguar and Cadillac are building some of the best cars they've ever made, and IMHO they should keep at it. I still can't figure out how the hell BMW remains profitable with things like the X4/X6/3GT/5GT, but these are niche markets, they won't last forever, and Cadillac/Jaguar wouldn't do themselves any favors trying to compete there. These brands have impressively clawed their way back from the brink of death, and should continue to focus on building fantastic cars, not stretching themselves thin chasing after every niche. Rome wasn't built in a day, and luxury brand reputations aren't established overnight. As someone who believes the Germans may very well have peaked in the '90s, I think that's a damn good benchmark to go after.

And as any serious competitor in the luxury market must have a proper flagship (ahem, LINCOLN), I can't fucking wait for this thing:

The proportions look so right .

RichardNixon72 > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:56

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I guess I should clarify that by handling I mean ride quality. Drive one with anything large than base wheels and the ride is choppy and terrible, IMO. Definitely not a luxury car ride, which - frankly - most low-spec lease special BMWs are NOT luxury cars anyway.

IvanaTinkle > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/18/2014 at 16:57

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"I've read in multiple places that Cadillac's materials and levels of craftsmanship rival or beat most of the Germans."

Can you please quote or provide a link to these "many places"?

Jay_Hoff > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 16:58

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Pointless rant on Jalopnik. Slow weekend.

PardonMyFlemish16 > bobkustofawitshz 05/18/2014 at 17:02

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So Jag n Caddy shouldnt stretch themselves thin, but Caddy should throw money at a flagship you and I both know nobody is going to buy?

Lol

What do you think would sell more/yield more profits.... an Evoque fighter or a "flagship" in a market that grows more and more irrelevant by the day? Jag sells like 10K XJs a year.... Caddy would be lucky to do that with this... it would be a waste of time.

IvanaTinkle > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/18/2014 at 17:03

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"Yes, Cue needs some work, but it isn't nearly as horrible as say, first generation iDrive. And remember Cue is on it's first generation and constantly improving."

CUE is horrible at a time when you can get infotainment in everything from a Fiesta to an S-Class to a Lamborghini, whereas the iDrive was the first of such a system in any production car and was cutting-edge at the time. You'd think Cadillac would be able to put a halfway decent system in their cars with the current state of technology.

stillthrottledown > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:05

1

Any reason Audi isn't included in this? I would step into an Audi before any Merc any day of the week.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Pitchblende 05/18/2014 at 17:06

0

"Brand dilution, the same reason that Jaguar do not offer a small car."

What do you call the XE?

"no point in spending the money styling and marketing a Range Rover as a Jag if all they are going to do is pull customers off buying a Range Rover"

You don't know that that will be the case. VWAG sells the Cayenne, Touareg and Q7 no problem. Cayenne and Touareg both sold 16K each in the US last year, just like the Range Rover Sport. Clearly JLR agrees as they have a midsize SUV coming for Jag too. Nobody knows the companies are the same and there is room to sell them to different markets. Again business wise a midsize SUV makes more sense than a 3 fighter

LongbowMkII > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:07

0

Caddy is part of a larger corporation with lesser brands while bmw and merc have no internal competition moving downmarket. This is the issue audi/vw faces with the A3 in america. Caddy could use a 3 row cuv, but that would hurt GMC more than BMW or merc. This article fails to recognize the differences between these car makes.

if you dont believe brand dilution is possible ask chrysler about it.

Lokshot > IvanaTinkle 05/18/2014 at 17:08

1

the interior of escalades is TRASH compared toBMW so much plastic and general cheap feel

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:10

8

First off: The X5 and Escalade are in two completely different classes. Of course a crossover is going to sell more than a body-on-frame Truck. Tell me when BMW offers a proper SUV then we'll get back to this issue.

Since when does premium=brand image?! Premium means you offer a quality product with quality materials and craftsmanship! It does not mean "Oh our car is premium because it has a blue and white propeller on the hood!!"

I was comparing a first generation system to a first generation system. BMWs got that good from YEARS of trial and error. Cadillac's has been on market for what, 2 years?

"Lmao, such as?" Are you really that brain dead?

You really want to talk about throwing in the towel when talking about BMW? Really? Because the chassis dynamics and steering feel is enough to know they threw in the towel halfway though, knowing they can rely on their reputation to pull them through. At least Cadillac put in the effort to have a good product all around, not just relying on their prestige.

You know what other cars bring up the 3-Series when they're thought of? The C-Class, A4, and IS. They're all doing the same thing that Cadillac was doing with the ATS; building a 3-Series fighter.

We're really gonna talk about being a fanboy when you're obviously one of of BMW and Mercedes? You're leniency towards the German's and their half-assed attempts at "luxury cars" recently is ridiculous.

Pockets > dogisbadob 05/18/2014 at 17:10

3

The X-Type sold reasonable numbers, but iirc they were crazy optimistic with the targets & they went overbudget putting it into production which is why it wasn't great financially.

I don't see the point of a full on Jaguar SUV but a jacked up, AWD version of the XF estate a la Audi's Allroad & Subaru's Outback might be a good idea? I think they're going and doing a new model to get a crossover into the range, though.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > IvanaTinkle 05/18/2014 at 17:12

0

Notice how I said I'm pretty sure? There's a reason I said that.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > IvanaTinkle 05/18/2014 at 17:14

1

It's half decent, it's easy to use and understand, I seriously don't see the problem with it! They've sent out updates that have improved it drastically.

dogisbadob > Pockets 05/18/2014 at 17:14

0

I wish we got the XF wagon :(

A jacked-up XF wagon is a great idea if it's sold in addition to the standard-height XF and not as the only wagon in the US lineup.

Honduh > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:15

1

It's clear you know nothing about the inner workings of a car company. Do you have any idea how many people it takes to transform the 3 series platform into all those different models? The facilities/factories required to do so? Also the office space, the supplier base, and most importantly - cash flow. It's more than you think. 5-6 years ago Jaguar was on its knees, and you can't just make these models appear in that time. It takes vast investment in people and factories, which all takes time. You are comparing David with Goliath here. BMW and Mercedes are companies blessed with enormous economy of scale to diversify their model ranges like that. What I'm trying to say is you have written an article from the point of view of a consumer, not a motoring journalist who should know better.

IvanaTinkle > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/18/2014 at 17:16

1

You're sure, but the rest of us aren't. Some links would be very nice.

KellieCCates > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:19

1

My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My neighbour's sister has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can't believe how easy it was once I tried it out.,,,,,,,,,,,

This is what I do,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, http://www.Jobs75.com

RWD-by-the-Sea > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:19

0

I don't think Cadillac competing with the Germans is necessarily a bad thing - but they should figure out where to compete.

Building comparable, good products is, IMO, a good thing to emulate. Where I think Cadillac goes wrong is when they put out a decent (not necessarily superior) product and charge as much or more than their German competition.

The Germans get away with high adding prices for a number of reasons, but prime among them is reputation or, at the least, brand perception. I don't think Cadillac is there yet - they're getting closer, but I think they don't do themselves any favors on the pricing front. Without offering anything superior to the German competition there's no reason for the average customer to choose Cadillac over the others - unless they were competitive on price. They're not (sticker for sticker), and I think this is one way they could get people buying cars and change perceptions.

IvanaTinkle > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/18/2014 at 17:22

4

"You're leniency towards the German's and their half-assed attempts at "luxury cars" recently is ridiculous."

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > IvanaTinkle 05/18/2014 at 17:22

2

Hop your lazy ass over to Motor Trend and Car and Driver and look up the CTS review if you want links so badly.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > IvanaTinkle 05/18/2014 at 17:24

0

They're got the interior and quality down pat, but they've went backwards in terms of driving dynamics in their recent generations. Thus half assed.

So how about you just fuck off?

Boston_Creme > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:27

5

Cadillac Escalade outsold the BMW X5 in the US from 1999 to 2008, and in 2013 the BMW X5 outsold the Cadillac Escalade 39,818 to 22,514, which isn't 3:1. Just check their wiki articles, sources in the links. But as it's been said, they aren't very comparable besides both being SUVs.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/18/2014 at 17:27

5

"Tell me when BMW offers a proper SUV then we'll get back to this issue."

Way to move the goalposts. They are both luxury SUVs and various SUVs have been outselling the Escalade for some time. If you were talking about the Tahoe or something you would have a point but I know Escalade owners. They are soccer moms and executive limo companies. I have never seen a new Escalade with a tow hitch.

"I was comparing a first generation system to a first generation system."

This is idiotic. By this logic, you can only compare a Genesis Coupe to a '64 Mustang. People are not cross shopping CUE with 10 year old Idrive systems they are comparing them to what's out now. And in any case, other companies have recently come out with 1st gen systems that are much better than CUE. Most notable one is Chrysler's system which debuted in the new 200 I think.

"At least Cadillac put in the effort to have a good product all around, not just relying on their prestige."

No they didn't. CUE is horrible and the ATS + CTS look boring in and out in real life.

Regarding the Caddy from the 50s... LOL! Do you think the average ATS/CTS buyer knows anything about Cadillacs from 60 years ago? Is that the last good car Caddy built in your opinion? Wow its worse than I thought.

I'm no BMW or Benz fanboy either. There's no new BMW I would buy today for the simple fact that there is no naturally aspirated BMW. Benzes are too heavy and big. My rides now are a sports car and a motorcycle.... I could do a S1000R, but car wise there is nothing new from either manufacturer I would replace my Z with. And cars like the X6M and 3/5 GT make my skin crawl. But numbers don't lie.... they sell a ton of all these cars no problem and they know what people want. Caddy doesn't.

Noroxus > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:28

1

He didn't reference gas guzzling...you're arguing with something that doesn't equate. Luxury and Sports cars do not block views. Now, arguing usefuless? I'd argue they're more useful than most SUVs...since SUVs aren't build to go off road (usually), they're just tall minivans.

As per your post...meh? American cars still have an image problem. They're getting better...but they have a long, horrible past. Then there is the badge factor, and then the price factor. But meh...there would be no loss if cadillac went down...and as for Jag? I think that's debatable. They've started to make interesting cars for the first time in my life time. We'll have to see where that goes.

IvanaTinkle > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/18/2014 at 17:30

1

So you're going to try to make an argument and not qualify it whatsoever, and want other people to look up your facts for you? You might want to reconsider who you're calling "lazy" over here.

un-hipster > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:30

0

I can see your point, but the target market for Cadillac is not the same as BMW.

Cadillac's place in the market is luxury, sport/lux, premium. They don't need a car to compete in every segment with BMW, GM has other divisions fill those spots. On the rare occasions when GM tried to force down-market offerings on Cadillac, the results were shall we say, less than spectacular (Cimarron, Catera).

PardonMyFlemish16 > Noroxus 05/18/2014 at 17:33

1

A minivan is mroe useful for a small family than a sedan. The point still stands. You can't complain about SUVs and then celebrate sports cars that never get tracked or luxury cars that rarely carry passengers. It's hypocritical.

Birddog > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:33

1

Lmao, such as? The "Fleetwood 8-6-4 that nearly closed the US diesel market?"

Wha?

swaproot > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:34

1

Here is my take on the topic. Right now I am leasing the Cadillac ATS 2.0T AWD and it is my daily driver.

Before ATS, I had a 1994 Mercedes C280, 2002 Mercedes A170 (diesel) and some Renaults while I still lived in Europe. I also drive my dads Q7 and now Q5 (diesels) quite often and I used to work for the largest car rental company so I think I can objectively compare the ATS to bunch of other cars.

When I was shopping for a new car, I obviously looked at all the Germans. Surprisingly the 3 series is not what it used to be and if I didn't get the ATS, I would probably end up with an A4 or an A5.

However, the reason I got the ATS is the value. I really like pushing my cars but I am not willing to sacrifice the comfort. We can probably agree that all cars in this class are very similar in this area. So the difference really was in price for me.

I thought that after Audis and Mercedes that I used to be driving, I wouldn't even look at anything else and yet, I fell in love with Hyundai Sonata and Ford Fusion at my previous job. These cars are probably the best value in its class and the real world performance is not too far from the germans.

That said, you don't get the luxo badge and everyone wants just that. So after all the comparisons and talks to dealers, I decided to lease the ATS because at least here in Canada, with all the rebates and low interest, it was $200/month cheaper than anything else in its class, and after driving it, it did not feel like a worse car.

Yes, the Cue is annoying, but I think that most of it's quirks can be solved via software update, then the trunk is tiny and your passengers are the back are gonna hate you for the legroom (or lack of it). And honestly, I don't care. I drive usually alone, and I just like to enjoy my drive, even if I am just driving to work, so whatever strategy GM chose to do, it works on me.

P.S.: I hated GM bore ATS and I admit that their low end cars could still use some better quality materials

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:38

1

And you're calling BMWs and Benzes eye catching? They're so common I don't even bat an eye anymore. At least the Cadillacs look fresh and different.

The last good Cadillac to me was the just-out-0f-production CTS, so there.

You know what? I'm just done dealing with you. Because you obviously have yourself stuck in 2001 when Cadillac was building absolute shit. They're building class competitive cars that people want to buy, and that's that.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > IvanaTinkle 05/18/2014 at 17:39

0

If you want to know so bad, why the fuck do *I* have to look it up?

jalop1991 > oldirtybootz 05/18/2014 at 17:42

3

llamaguy > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:42

1

Are you seriously saying we need MORE crossovers and SUVs? These things are appalling and wasteful. The X1 is only good because it is cheaper than a 328i and people still don't care about mileage and emissions in the US.

JR1 > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:43

1

You have no reason to make any arguments regarding the styling of Cadillacs. Not only is it subjective to do so and BMW is making perhaps some of the ugliest cars in their history. And yes people will look back to cars from the 50s and the prestige they once had. It's a Cadillac of course people in the US especially will remember the prestige or the fact that their grandpa owned one. First impressions make are a big influence. The old Caddies are definitely a marketing tool for a new car.

IvanaTinkle > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:44

0

And if you're going to compare the CUE to the iDrive, might as well also compare it to the system that went into the Buick Reatta.

The Transporter > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:45

1

"Me too" isn't a good business strategy. The last thing these two brands need to do is diversify. Hell, GM's problem going into the recession was that it was too diversified. Each brand was essentially a clone of the other. As ze Germans try to turn their brands into "everything to everyone" brands, it actually makes sense for Cadillac and Jaguar to narrow their focus into niche luxury-sport brands, although Caddy needs to up its game with the luxury half.

Take the airline Virgin Atlantic as an example. When Richard Branson was looking to get into the airline business, he noticed that the NYC-London route was woefully underserved by low cost carriers. La Guardia was too small for international flights and landing fees at JFK and Heathrow kept LLCs out. However, he noticed that one airline, People Express, was flying from Gatwick to Newark. To check out his potential competition, he tried to book a flight over the phone on People, but got a busy signal. He knew from this that a) there was enough demand to jam up People's phones, and b) People couldn't fill that demand because their phone lines were jammed. So Branson leased a few 747s and carried over the Virgin brand from his record company to give the airline a certain cool factor that People lacked (People was so barebones that it made Southwest look like a high class luxury airline). A number of older, larger, and better diversified airlines have passed on into history since then (including People Express) and Virgin Atlantic is one of the most profitable flag carriers in the world.

Large companies tend to do many things OK, or one thing really well. As Porsche, BMW, and Mercedes Benz have diversified, their luxury sport cache has started to wain. A few years ago, the best thing you could say about the Cadillac and Jaguar brands is that they had nowhere to go but up. Focusing the brands into luxury-sport brands was the sanest possible thing they could do. That being said, I'll agree with you that if Caddy and Jag want to go all the way with the luxury-sport thing, they really need to push the technology aspect quite a bit farther. Being a racing engine supplier would be a good place to start. F1 is too expensive, but prototypes are the Wild West of powerplant development right now. The LF3 could be a good answer to Ford's 3.5l twin turbo Ecoboost in USCR and Nissan could really use some competition in LMP2 in both the WEC and ELMS. Sounds like a job for Jag.

Vin > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:47

1

I disagree. I think both brands need to focus on exclusivity and not ubiquity.

Cadillac is backed by GM and Jaguar has Land Rover/Tata money; I say they trim the fat. If Cadillac only had and CTV sedan/coupe and the Ciel convertible, I'd be pleased; throw in a sedan version as the flagship model, and maybe make a slightly less posh Ciel for cab companies or private chauffeurs in order to fill in the void left by the Lincoln Town Car.

Jaguar could make do with the XJ and the F-type, and the SUV seemed to resonate with auto enthusiasts so they could do that as well. But again - exclusivity. Once they get into scaling up or down it starts to look like Ze Germans, with their 47 different models and too many goddamn acronyms to keep straight.

deleted > Klaus Schmoll 05/18/2014 at 17:49

0

speaking as somebody who has driven diesel opels, no, Caddy should not put a Opel diesel in their cars if they want to compete with the germans.

Caddilac isn't even trying, since their market research probably shows there is no interest. The cars sold in the us and in the EU are just too different. For example, the use of chrome is something the average buyer in the EU would not like, but considering it is present in most caddy's, it seems the us public likes it, and this is just a small example. Ford understood this, and that is why there are Ford models only being sold in the EU, as there are Ford models only being sold in the US. I have yet to see a Ford flex/ expedition/ explorer in the EU, and have yet to see a Ford C-max in the US. Thus if caddy wanted to make an entry in the EU market, they would need to build a model specifically for the EU, preferably multiple models. I agree, chevrolet is a super cheap brand in the eu due too their bad decisions.

Atomic Buffalo > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:49

2

Cadillac was absolutely correct to build excellent sports sedans. That's where legitimacy starts. CUE missed the mark, but so did the Germans' first attempts at a "smart" interface. Let's see what they do for an encore.

Speaking of, that's Cadillac's small crossover: the Buick Encore. That's where the small car is, too, at Buick. It's too soon for Cadillac to have their own versions — they need more time to establish their legitimacy as an aspirational brand — but the day will come.

First, they need to replace the SRX with two new crossovers, one a half-step larger and one a half-step smaller. Then they need to refresh the ATS. More niche bodystyles will have to wait until they can bring profitable volume in the core segments.

Schwindler > bobkustofawitshz 05/18/2014 at 17:52

1

To be completely fair, you just cherry picked some of the most lauded classic models from BMW and Mercedes's past, and then you threw up what are arguably the four most criticized modern models as a comparison.

Anyone can cherry pick models to win their argument; how about the the E36 and E46 "compact" models?

What about the utterly terrible first-gen ML, SLK, or the C "coupe"?

Please bear in mind that I don't have any issues with the rest of your post. I agree in that Jag and Caddy are pumping out some real winners.

JR1 > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:56

0

That's a rather stupid statement to say "no one is going to buy" the Cadillac flagship. You gotta be joking. You have zero market research to back up these claims and you forget the large number of red blooded Americans dying for an American luxury car rival.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Atomic Buffalo 05/18/2014 at 17:58

0

Sport sedan "legitimacy" is a farce. The bulk of buyers in the 3 series market don't give a crap about sportiness, and the small % of cars in that segment with stickshifts and sport packages + the enduring success of the IS250 and C Class show this. Caddy did not have to bring the fight to the 3 series, which itself has smartly gone soft in pursuit of broader appeal, to gain a stronghold in the market. I would bet 9 out of 10 customers in the segment would trade "Brembo brakes tested on a mountain road" for an interface to their radio and HVAC that wasn't as eye-gougingly awful as CUE.

f1r3s1d3 > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 17:58

3

Cadillac makes 3 and 5 series fighters/killers (CTS-V anyone?) and now everyone bitches they need to stop being so driver-oriented?

Make up your fucking mind, Jalops. Cadillac is doing just fine IMO. Their entire lineup is enticing, and I'd take an ATS over a 3 series, and a CTS over a 5 series ANY day of the week. The Cadillacs make a statement. The BMW's blend in, anymore.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Vin 05/18/2014 at 18:00

0

I agree that there is value in exclusivity, but at the same time the existence of a 3 series doesn't hurt the sales of a 7 series. These companies are not in the space where they can limit capacity like Ferrari or something, they need volume.

I don't think they need to go as crazy as the Germans, but they have some glaring omissions in their lineup and some entries that don't really make sense given the current market climate.

Bytemite > nchockey 05/18/2014 at 18:01

0

Sports cars aren't gas guzzling, and neither are they meant for the track. You're misled by automakers marketing GT cars as "sports cars". Sports car and 3,000 lb+ vehicle curb weight can never coexist. GT cars, Super cars, Hyper cars, and other numbers-machine type vehicles are not what is classically a sports car.

Sports cars are nimble, light, well-handling cars with a focus on driver feel and driver engagement. It's not about the speed or lap times. People buy sports cars because it gives them enjoyment. What does driving a small vehicle with driver-focused ergonomics have to do with penis envy again? Were you thinking of obnoxiously big SUVs and CUVs and Muscle cars? Oh yeah, they're also not sports cars, in case you were unsure.

"SUV"s nowadays are just raised cars that are just about as useful as a bro truck with a lift kit. If a CUV can do something, the same platform car can do it and do other things better. It's just simple vehicle dynamics. Raise the CoG, you lower every part of a vehicle's dynamics, as in worse braking, worse handling, worse drag coefficient, and so on.

PardonMyFlemish16 > f1r3s1d3 05/18/2014 at 18:02

0

Lol @ the ATS and CTS making a statement. They are just as boring and anonymous as the 3 and 5. And I am hardly "everybody", and I never thought the ATS was a good idea.

chaboud > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 18:06

0

What they need is taste. Only caddy could look at idrive and say: "pffftt... We'll show them what cheap gimmicks look like with CUE!"

What. A. Joke.

Spreading out models on low volume is hard, market confusing, and expensive. Try getting the first model *right* before branching out. And it is not enough to be as good when you come from behind. You have to be noticeably better.

I can't get behind the current 3 series, but I've spent several days with an ATS. It's a great car covered in lame styling and awful electronics. Get one car right.

PardonMyFlemish16 > JR1 05/18/2014 at 18:08

0

Old cars can be used as marketing tools when there is a legacy. Porsche can use the 911, Chevy can use the Corvette etc because those cars are icons that never really sucked. Caddy had about 30 years over which their cars ranged from slightly worse than mediocre to flat out awful. They can't call on a legacy of excellence they never had.

And yea a 3 GT is awful but a regular 3 series is not bad. The ATS definitely doesn't look better.

PardonMyFlemish16 > JR1 05/18/2014 at 18:10

1

If you have to call someone's patriotism into question to make a point you probably don't have a point at all.

Maybe some folks would buy the flagship but nowhere near enough to warrant the billions of dollars GM would have to invest to make it worth selling. And even if they did invest it they would never get that money back.

PardonMyFlemish16 > llamaguy 05/18/2014 at 18:12

0

"These things are appalling and wasteful."

So are luxury cars and sports cars. Show me your posts complaining about the excess of those or admit you are a hypocrite with an anti-SUV bias. O and I hate SUVs and drive a sports car.

for Michigan > PardonMyFlemish16 05/18/2014 at 18:13

1

You have some good points and some shaky points, but overall I think you've got something here. It does seem that Caddy are chasing the "glory days" of the German automakers as eulogized by the enthusiast automotive mags, while their competitors have moved on. They could definitely use some competitive crossovers. However, they have been making serious progress over the last several years.

If you take Jag and LR together though, I think they really do have a handle on what they're doing. LR have the truck market covered, and Jag have been doing a good job of gradually working back toward relevance. It's really just a matter of time before they reach peer status with the Germans.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/18/2014 at 18:14

0

"And you're calling BMWs and Benzes eye catching?"

No.

"you obviously have yourself stuck in 2001 when Cadillac was building absolute shit."

Not at all. I said repeatedly the ATS and CTS are competitive well built cars... they are just not the right cars for Caddy to build its business/brand. Don't be so sensitive.