I have a thought

"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno)
05/16/2014 at 13:06 • Filed to: None

Just my two cents

If people wouldn't have died in those Cobalts effected by the ignition switch thing, news coverage would've never gotten this blown out of proportion. It would've been carried out like every other recall.

Was it ever actually proven that those deaths were tied with the faulty switches? I stopped reading about it before court hearings even started. Could they have been from the fact that these things are about as strong as cardboard?

I just can't even internet right now because everything auto related is about a $35,000,000 fine from some Government organization.

Sorry for the rants. I'm just tired of hearing about it I assume.

DISCUSSION (37)

yamahog > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 13:08

I believe the problem was that the ignition failure killed the airbags, which killed the occupants.

Jayhawk Jake > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 13:09

yes, but as I recall they were also tied to drunken driving, not wearing seatbelts, speeding, etc...

yamahog > Jayhawk Jake
05/16/2014 at 13:11

as I recall

Niiiiiiice

Diesel > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 13:11

This is a Fight Club moment for GM. I'm sure they will appeal the fine and end up with a smaller fine that we never hear about.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > yamahog
05/16/2014 at 13:11

Am I the only one who thinks those should be two separate systems, not tied together?

BaconSandwich is tasty. > yamahog
05/16/2014 at 13:11

...ignoring the fact that some of those killed also weren't wearing seatbelts.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Jayhawk Jake
05/16/2014 at 13:12

Heyo, there's the kicker. So the people were being stupid, and their cars were being stupid. So the car company gets the entire blow.

offroadkarter > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 13:12

If the airbag system was powered by a constant on circuit, it would probably create a big enough drain on the battery that your car would be dead after sitting for a day or two.

its not exactly common that a car not running will need its airbag.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > offroadkarter
05/16/2014 at 13:14

It can't cause that much drain to keep a bit of electrical power running through to keep them active. Or put a second battery in there? I just think it's really stupid to have them on the same systems.

yamahog > BaconSandwich is tasty.
05/16/2014 at 13:15

If the airbags hadn't failed, we could place the blame solely on the lack of seatbelts. But they did, so we can't know, and functional airbags are a basic safety requirement.

yamahog > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 13:19

Airbag failure is a bit bigger than "cars being stupid." Especially in engineering, where you spend a great deal of time going through every possible failure mode of every component at the component, system, and vehicle levels and assign levels of risk to each one.

offroadkarter > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 13:23

how many times in your life have you ever needed an airbag after the car was turned off

I think the lesson for GM is to learn how to build better ignition switches. The C5 vettes and GTO's had a problem where over time the switch would get stuck in "OFF" and you had to get your car towed to the dealer and have the steering column torn apart to fix it.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 13:26

From what I understand, the people died because when the ignition of their car did whatever it did, it deactivated the airbag. And when people start to die because a company knew there was a problem for a long time but decided not to act, that's why the media is making such a big deal of it.

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 13:31

Or....or...if they had less keys on the same ring as the car keys then we wouldn't have had this issue to begin with.

This:

Kinja'd!!!

Not this:

Kinja'd!!!

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > offroadkarter
05/16/2014 at 13:32

I'm guessing they're better now, because no new cars have been part of the recall.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper
05/16/2014 at 13:35

SO MUCH THIS. Why do you need all that extra crap!?

I have three keys (two are for my van, another is a house key) and a thing to hook it onto a belt loop. That's it.

offroadkarter > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 13:37

no they just find other reasons to recall them, like the new 2014 trucks and SUV's that have snapping tie rods or burst into flames for no reason

thebigbossyboss > BaconSandwich is tasty.
05/16/2014 at 13:43

Hey you! I was going to say that! Get out of my head.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > offroadkarter
05/16/2014 at 13:46

I like my parent's theory behind the amount of cars being recalled today.

They say that robots remove a lot of risk from manufacturing and quality control, but when you remove the human aspect from it and rely on computers that rely on a certain set of standards, the robots might thing something is okay when it really isn't. Humans can tell when something is wrong, robots are usually capable of it, but sometimes they fuck up, and stuff like this happens.

They think we need to go back to using more humans rather than relying on some robotic arms. And I think I agree with them.

I'm sure some of it has to do with standards being raised, but the manufacturing process has something to do with it as well.

nevergonnahaveapermanentaccount > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 13:49

At least, workers that aren't shit drunk on thier shift are better than robots at identifying problems.

Jayhawk Jake > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 13:51

I wholeheartedly disagree.

Humans make mistakes. Robots do not. The only way you can blame the robots is by blaming the people who programmed the robot.

Trust me, I work for a major vehicle manufacturer, people screw up from time to time. It doesn't happen often, but it's far more likely for a person to mess up than a robot.

offroadkarter > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 13:53

I think a lot of it is cost cutting to be honest, GM knows how to do that for sure.

ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 13:54

its just funny that the argument is basically about how GM did not take into the account how the weight of a BILLION KEYS AND KEY-CHAINS would effect the car key and its position in the ignition. humans...we create are own problems a look to blame someone else..

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > offroadkarter
05/16/2014 at 13:54

All companies are doing that to keep their products relatively affordable.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper
05/16/2014 at 13:55

They factored in the car key, a house key, and maybe another car key. About half the weight of some key chains I've seen.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > yamahog
05/16/2014 at 13:56

It's always a race between building a bigger and better idiot proof machine and the universe building a bigger and better idiot...

Jayhawk Jake > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 14:04

No, but that's not a very good solution. It would lead to battery drain and run a risk of accidental deployment.

I see two solutions:

1. Set up a circuit such that if the car detects it is in motion with the ignition off the airbag is powered. This should be easy with all the compooters in everything today

2. Make an ignition switch that can't turn off if the car is in motion.

GM will go for 2...

yamahog > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 14:04

Have you been to a Big 3 plant? There are plenty of humans involved in the manufacturing process. Outside of stamping and the body shop (where the frame is welded together and paint applied) any robot arms are basically handing things to human operators for them to install. I don't think there was robot oversight involved in this failure, unless you're calling GM management robots ;)

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > yamahog
05/16/2014 at 14:06

Hey, these aren't my theories.

yamahog > ESSSIX GmbH - Accountant/Wagon Thumper
05/16/2014 at 14:06

I'm going to have to write up a full post about this because I've repeated it so many times:

My coworker's Cobalt experienced repeated ignition failure even with nothing else on the keychain.

GM has done a great job spinning this back onto the customer, though. Everyone instantly associates the ignition failure with too much stuff hanging off the keyring.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Jayhawk Jake
05/16/2014 at 14:07

Well, in my mom's Vue, you can't take the key out of the Acc position unless the car is in park or neutral. So I guess they kinda already went with 2.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Jayhawk Jake
05/16/2014 at 14:09

Like I said, parent's theories, not mine. Robots work fine, but a little human quality assurance at the end wouldn't kill them.

yamahog > BaconSandwich is tasty.
05/16/2014 at 14:12

Airbags are a pretty basic requirement, it's not like we're talking about a bubble-wrapped car on a bubble-wrapped highway. They've been required in the US for 25 years now.

yamahog > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 14:15

It's ok. Now you can go lay some knowledge on the parents!

BaconSandwich is tasty. > yamahog
05/16/2014 at 14:15

And seatbelts have been required even longer.

(I get it though: regardless of whether the seatbelts were used, the airbags should still have gone off. Really though, it's quite possible those people would still be alive had they even just used a seatbelt).

Jayhawk Jake > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 14:31

That's true, but replacing robots with humans won't do it. Putting more humans at the last step to check everything might.

Jayhawk Jake > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
05/16/2014 at 14:32

It's SUPPOSED to do that. The problem they were having is the keys would twist off the ignition on their own, which it shouldn't do.