Dear Everyone, Stop Comparing the BMW i8 to the Tesla Model S

"Battery Tender Unnecessary" (carac)
05/14/2014 at 13:58 • Filed to: None

I doubt anyone has ever asked an R8 owner, "Why didn't you buy a M5? It has a bigger trunk." But I get the impression a lot of people will ask i8 owners, "Why didn't you buy a Tesla Model S? It has a bigger all-electric range"

...which not only misses the point of both cars but ignores how objectively different they are.

Let's break it down

BMW i8

3274 lbs

2-door coupe

AWD

98 kW Electric motor driving the front wheels, 1.5-liter 3-cylinder + undisclosed kW electric driving the rear

Carbon fiber passenger cell and body panels sitting on aluminum chassis

7.1 kW battery pack

23 mile all-electric range

$136k

Tesla Model S

4647 lbs

5-door lift-back sedan

RWD

310kW Electric motor driving the rear wheels

Aluminum body, chassis, body panels

60-85kW battery pack

208-310 all-electric mile range (depending on model and source of testing)

$70k~120k

So the only objective things they have in common (besides 4-wheels, windows, etc) are (drastically different) electric motors/battery packs and an aluminum chassis. One is a 2 passenger, 2 kid coupe. One is a 5 passenger, 2 kid sedan. One you can drive 300 miles and refuel in 5 minutes, the other requires anywhere from a little less than an hour (at a Tesla Supercharger) to 60 hours (if you use a wall socket) to "refuel." For the record, you can completely discharge the i8's battery and the system will recharge the battery in a few minutes in hybrid mode.

So not only are they objectively different, they have very different "philosophies of use." The Tesla is a great, sporty family commuter sedan. The i8 is a low and wide sports coupe with a Jekyll and Hyde split personality that is apparently great in both roles.

I "get" the need to compare things. People like comparisons, it helps them contextualize something unknown or abstract. They are especially useful with new or expensive cars that only the press and owners will likely experience.

Now then, what DO we compare the i8 to?

3700 lbs

2-door coupe

AWD

93kW Electric motor driving the front wheels, 4.6L V-8 + 115kW electric driving the rear

Carbon fiber monocoque chassis and body

6.8kW battery pack

18 mile all-electric range

$850k+

Porsche 918

It is the closest objectively comparable car excluding the price and gas engine size. It costs more than 6x as much and has a 3x displacement V-8 instead of a 1.5L I-3. Similar all electric range, similar battery pack, similar front motors, exact same engine layout, AWD, carbon passenger cells, 2-doors, etc. None of which is comparable to the Model S.

I get where the attempt to compare comes from. There are very subjective criteria you can use to make a comparison between the i8 and Model S. Both appeal to bleeding edge tech buyers and early adopters. Both "make a statement" for people that care about that aspect of car choice. Both will sell to coastal Californians like crazy. Both project an "eco" image.

There are a few articles I've read that correctly choose to make a comparison between the 918 and i8 rather than a Tesla (Lieberman at Motor Trend said he liked the BMW more), but they are rare.

Let's put it this way:

I imagine explaining what a zebra looks like to someone that's never seen one is hard. But if I attempted to compare it to something else, I would point towards a horse before pointing to a elephant.

DISCUSSION (42)

MonkeePuzzle > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/14/2014 at 14:00

both have four wheels

Brian Silvestro > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/14/2014 at 14:03

Yeah it really doesn't make any sense. People can't find anything similar in it's price range to compare against, so they just choose something that sounds interesting.

Also, if I had the money for a 918, I'd just get an i8 and a few awesome cars.

For Sweden > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/14/2014 at 14:03

I just ask why R8 owners hate Italians.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/14/2014 at 14:05

"Why you don't buy a prius then? "

But seriously, why people say that anyway?

It's my money. I can buy whatever i want as long as it's my money, and in my eyes that what i really want.

Everyone has their own taste, and people had to respect that.

*On unrelated note, when the i8 arrives, will you keep the SLS?

PS9 > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/14/2014 at 14:06

Are people really making that comparo? Haven't read too much about that anywhere.

Battery Tender Unnecessary > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW.
05/14/2014 at 14:07

Keeping both is the plan. Polar opposites of the eco scale.

Battery Tender Unnecessary > PS9
05/14/2014 at 14:09

Most of the i8 articles that came out of that press event in Malibu last month made the comparison. And if I had a dime for every time someone has said "I would just buy a Tesla" in the various i8 forums.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/14/2014 at 14:11

Yeah!

I guess you're the most awesome doctor i ever seen.

Saracen > Brian Silvestro
05/14/2014 at 14:11

If I had money for a 918, I'd just buy an F40 and a Tesla (trololo)

Brian Silvestro > Saracen
05/14/2014 at 14:11

You wouldn't even be able to afford the F40 though.

Saracen > Brian Silvestro
05/14/2014 at 14:13

600-700k will get you an F40 with a few thousand miles on it.

Brian Silvestro > Saracen
05/14/2014 at 14:15

Really? I thought they were well over a million nowadays.

BrtStlnd > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/14/2014 at 14:18

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that many buyers might cross-shop the two models.

Saracen > Brian Silvestro
05/14/2014 at 14:18

The F40's and F50's with a few hundred miles on the clock will fetch over a million easily. But if it's been driven extensively at all, the value drops quite a bit.

Brian Silvestro > Saracen
05/14/2014 at 14:22

*raises eyebrow*

Interesting...

Cé hé sin > Saracen
05/14/2014 at 16:30

People who buy these and have a few hundred miles on their near virgin clocks after several years should be subjected to punishment which is at once cruel and unusual.

Alternator Fax > Cé hé sin
05/14/2014 at 20:29

Perhaps strapping them to the hood while rapidly racking up appropriate milage?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/20/2014 at 11:23

Hey BTU - just watched a CF crash test, and it made me think of the related costs for repair. Have you been able to get any insurance quotes on your incoming i8 yet? If so, how do the rates compare to a similarly priced, "conventional" sports car?

Battery Tender Unnecessary > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
05/20/2014 at 11:35

Probably won't make much of a difference to begin with. They won't have any data on the cost of repairing or the relative likelihood of a i8 owner having an accident compared to the general population. The SLS' insurance premium went up a little the second year because there was more usable data about repair costs and accident rates. So the first year or so they'll use their data based it's purchase price, engine size, etc.

FWIW the i8 and i3 have "scoring" in the passenger cell that allows it to be easily cut in certain places and those sections replaced fairly easily and relatively cheaply since their method of carbon fiber production is orders of magnitude cheaper in time, materials, and energy.

And...just don't crash :)

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/20/2014 at 13:55

Data based on engine size should be in your favor!

And yes, don't Orlove it.

Interesting info about the design taking into account repairs. Smart.

Jayhawk Jake > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
05/25/2014 at 22:30

One of my very brilliant professors taught us the importance of the 'ilities'

Repairability, Maintainability, Manufacturability, etc...

Jayhawk Jake > For Sweden
05/25/2014 at 22:32

Probably because they smell bad

wtrmlnjuc > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/25/2014 at 22:40

Man, Tesla is gonna have to really step up their game with the next gen Roadster (which will compete with the i8 and 918.

Fred (FreddsterExprs) > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/26/2014 at 10:15

The i8 should be compared to a mildly specd 991 4S and maybe the R8 V8. I actually really wonder when the first magazines will do that comparison (Chris Harris preferably), I can't imagine the i8 being as fast and well handling.

The Tesla on the other hand is always compared to an S-Class which I again think is wrong - it seems to be more of an E-class/5-series competitor.

HeyYouGuys > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/26/2014 at 10:18

I'm curious why no one posted a defense of the Cadillac ELR similar to this when everyone here compares it to the Model S.

The Model S's only advantage is better acceleration, losing out in every other aspect (luxury, comfort, safety features, range before stopping, onboard generator, price, etc), yet the ELR is mocked as a shitty alternative to the Model S no one should consider. What gives?

Doug Nash > HeyYouGuys
05/26/2014 at 10:47

Well, perhaps it's because the Tesla Model S has been a smashing success. They've got a wait list a mile long, and have revolutionized (more like common sense) the way people should be able to buy a car. At least here in SoCal, the Tesla is now ubiquitous in daily life. They are everywhere here.

I don't know whether the ELR is shitty or not (although I'm on record saying GM is shitty) but does it satisfy any of the above criteria?

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > wtrmlnjuc
05/26/2014 at 10:49

As long as Tesla makes the new roadster look as good or better, offers the same powertrain but with less weight, and offers it for about the same price as the Model S, it'll will do well. It doesn't need to beat the i8 because they would be charging substantially less for it.

And in some markets (like Europe), having a gasoline engine is a disadvantage in some ways because it raises the CO2 emissions rating. That in turn raises the annual road taxes that are based on C02 emissions in some countries.

Bobby Ang > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/26/2014 at 12:22

You don't compare technology, just because a car debuted with new technology doesn't mean you need to scramble to find one with similar tech to compare. An i8 compares with an R8. Both are performance cars for seaside boulevards. They look good, looks better in front of a hotel. One chose to go fast with a V8/V10 engine, the other uses qfnlk315#@T$FEnoology

HeyYouGuys > Doug Nash
05/26/2014 at 12:52

Meet your hand picked criteria? No. But it is the first all electric luxury coupe with an onboard generator, a HUGE deal for those not willing to base their lives around proximity to a supercharging station. Not to mention all the criteria Tesla doesn't meet, like blind zone alert, front parking sensors, 20" wheels, active noise cancellation, lane departure warning, etc, etc, etc. Where's the article asking about those on a Tesla?

Every article I've seen has had a pro-Tesla slant, mentioning only the areas where the Model S is better than others. My question was simply wondering why no one has bothered to write articles extolling reasons the ELR is better, or at least not a direct competitor (like this one).

BigHarv > HeyYouGuys
05/26/2014 at 13:05

The Model S's only advantage is...

-Actually being faster than a Honda Fit

-Actually being sporty to drive

-Having a usable back seat (tough comparing a coupe to a sedan)

-Having a way, way bigger electric range

-Rear wheel drive vs front wheel drive

-Way more quiet

-No one will tell you that you paid twice what you should have for your less practical Volt

-A touchscreen dash you won't be swearing at

I am curious what safety features you're referring to, but the Tesla's safety record is almost untouchable.

BigHarv > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/26/2014 at 13:30

Asking people not to play numbers on Jalopnik, home of the 'V6 Mustang' scale of measurement? That's just yelling at the sky :-)

Mine, for you? Your i8 compares, numbers wise, unfavourably to the Audi TT RS. Slightly faster in a straight line because the US one was manual only, less grip, identical weight.

I know the i8 is a very, very different car, and the technology is fascinating and worthy of distinction. It massively influences the character of the car. But...I have a hard time explaining why my XJR was so expensive in the face of, say, a Pontiac G8 GXP, which had as much room, power, torque, the same weight, better handling, and half the cost. It's hard to explain a lot of the little things adding up to a huge difference in price (albeit one that has now vanished in the used market). The all aluminum construction, the supercharged and liquid intercooled V8, the air suspension, the radar cruise control, the electrochromatic mirrors, etc, etc. It's either 'nice to have' stuff or 'technology for the sake of technology'. My wife's Legacy GT still has a bigger back seat, is easier to park, and doesn't get stuck in snowy parking lots, and it's not much slower.

HeyYouGuys > BigHarv
05/26/2014 at 13:42

Your "advantages" are all opinions.

- 0-60 acceleration doesn't tell the whole story. Having an instant 295 lb/ft torque with no need for a downshift makes corner exits and passing in the ELR quite brisk and fun

- ELR handles great with the active suspension & being 500lbs lighter than a Model S.

- Longer all electric range in the Tesla was achieved by making the car heavier and not using a ELR's range extender that lets you go 340 miles before stopping. Personal preference which one is better.

-RWD vs FWD matters little to 9/10 drivers (see: CLA)

- Tesla is not quieter. Driven them both extensively, and the Tesla lacks laminated glass and active noise cancellation.

- A Volt battery pack attached to a completely different wheelbase, track, body and interior.

- CUE works just fine if you actually take the time to learn it, and its natural voice recognition isn't offered on the Model S.

- The safety features I'm referring to are laminated glass, side blind zone alert, lane departure warning, forward collision alert & OnStar- not to mention cool tech features like a smartphone app that lets you monitor and schedule charging in real time, preprogram GPS destinations and pre-cool the car before getting in.

Any other questions?

gometz > Bobby Ang
05/26/2014 at 13:45

Gesundheit.

BigHarv > HeyYouGuys
05/26/2014 at 14:56

I'm sorry, the ELR handles great, FWD doesn't matter and acceleration doesn't matter? With a 75k vehicle!?

I am pretty sure that the ELR the slowest vehicle for sale in the United States for over 55k. You can't sell an SUV that slow for that much money, let alone a coupe. And when you make it a FWD vehicle, it narrows the field even further. Full credit for Chevy using their excellent HiPer Strut on it-that technology apparently transformed the Cobalt SS-but it still isn't a sporty car.

Listen, I get that it is, in a lot of ways, a good car. But slow, FWD coupes are an established market-and they're a cheap market. Honda has been floundering with their version for a few years (the CR-Z), and those are only 23k.

And the app thing? Telsa has been doing that for years. And, guess what-so has the Volt for the most part.

HeyYouGuys > BigHarv
05/26/2014 at 16:05

This is really hard to explain to someone who doesn't drive an EV with 300 lb/ft of torque, but "slow" doesn't describe the car at all.

WOT 0-60 acceleration is a bit lacking, but when the heck do you ever do that? What makes a car feel fast and fun is how well it comes out of a corner, or goes from 45-60 to duck into a briefly open lane change. That's 95% of your driving, and that's where a car like this feels so much better than a gas engine. Without needing to wait on a transmission to downshift or for the revs to get up, every corner exit is a "foot to the floor, instant 300 lb/ft" experience- but without the need to rev match into a low gear and notify every cop in town by screaming through the corner at 5,000 rpm.

Again, it's hard to explain, but it's immensely satisfying to drive. I've owned several 400+hp V8s, and an ELR is every bit as fun on a windy road.

pr1ck35is > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/26/2014 at 16:16

Link to just two of the articles please. I don't think anyone is comparing.

stopcrazypp > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/26/2014 at 16:18

I would request the flip side too. Stop comparing the Model S to the i8. A lot of media likes to say the i8 is the Model S competitor (a possible "killer"), but it's nothing alike. There is really no real competition for the Model S at this point.

stopcrazypp > HeyYouGuys
05/26/2014 at 16:34

I don't see how his advantages are "opinions" and your's are not. Basically the ELR has a better interior, luxury options, an ICE (a plus for some people, a minus for others), and some feel a better exterior. That's about it really.

However, it loses horribly in acceleration (both with ICE on and off). It has much less electric range and interior/cargo space (although part of this is due to segment). It has worse handling (longer stopping distance, worse skidpad numbers).

And the biggest issue is that it has a car that costs half as much that has almost the same capabilities (the Volt). Even though GM changed the body and handling of the car, the powertrain is still the same (with only a software tweak for more power), so it's hard not to see it as a dressed up Volt. In contrast, there is nothing that's even remotely like the Model S in the market.

99R170 > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/26/2014 at 18:26

While you are at it . . . stop using kW to describe battery capacity.

It's like saying "the Bugatti Veyron can go 267.8 MILES!!!" Which, apparently, it cannot. :/

Frankenbike666 > Battery Tender Unnecessary
05/26/2014 at 23:03

I compare the i8 to a Volt. For $100,000 extra, you get a lot more of what a Volt could have been.

ddk632 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
08/04/2014 at 12:31

The CFRP is built with special cut points, such that the repair process involves cutting out and gluing in new sections to replaced damaged ones. The costs are on par with a comparable normal car. I've seen some quotes for an i8 for around $1.5k per year for full coverage w/ 100/300.

Gamal > Battery Tender Unnecessary
12/13/2014 at 22:02

I'm going to save up for this car. This is the future.

I buy it when it will be available and will remove the video review

In this I was encouraged to become http://vipluxa.com/5-reasons-to-b… that would sell my Jeep the other day and to start saving for a BMW.