Mornin' Oppo. Looking for help diagnosing a possible brake issue.

"sefeing, actually bought an E46" (sefeing90)
05/12/2014 at 10:34 • Filed to: brakes

Here's the best I can possibly describe it:

The brakes feel inconsistent. Sometimes they bite further up the travel (and feel great) than other times. Sometimes there's a bit of dead play in the pedal before the brakes bite, and I have to push a bit harder than others to get it to apply the same amount of force.

The brakes on this car are real touchy, but I love it. The issue is that sometimes the touchyness goes away for a single brake pedal press or two.

I think the brakes need to be bled, but I don't know how to convince the dealer that this needs to be done.

The car's a 2013 Focus ST with 5k miles on it.

I had the motor mount TSB done, which also replaced the clutchline. I know for a fact they had to bleed the clutch a few times, but am not sure if they did the brakes along with the clutch, or even if they're supposed to? (clutch & brake share a reservoir).

I'm getting the sound symposer (engine noise tube thing) replaced Friday, and had already asked them to look at the brakes last time, but they said they needed more detail since they couldn't find anything. It really only started happening since the TSB, I think. The dealer I'm going to for the symposer is a different dealer (like them better) than the dealer that did the TSB. I trust the one I'm going to now more.

A gorgeous blue Vanquish for your help.

DISCUSSION (22)

Squid > sefeing, actually bought an E46
05/12/2014 at 10:40

There could be air in the system. To get it diagnosed properly and to get the dealer to bleed the system for you, you should note when and how the brakes change feel. Is it only after the car is warm? Can you park the car for 5 minutes and the brakes go back to normal? Or will it remain squishy all the time? Is the pedal firm with the ignition off and the booster bleed of vacuum? Try to document how it specifically happens and you should be able to get the issue fixed.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > sefeing, actually bought an E46
05/12/2014 at 10:41

You have air in your system by the sounds of it.

OPPOsaurus WRX > sefeing, actually bought an E46
05/12/2014 at 10:44

Sounds like maybe there is air is there. Hows the fluid levels look? has it changed at all? In the end i'd say it doesn;t matter what the cause is, the dealer should get it fixed.

davedave1111 > sefeing, actually bought an E46
05/12/2014 at 10:44

This is your brakes we're talking about. It's not good enough for the dealer just to say they can't find anything without more details. They must tell you what details they need.

EL_ULY > sefeing, actually bought an E46
05/12/2014 at 10:46

go to the dealer and request to drive with the shop foreman, or request a similar car to compare. When the car is under warranty, you can make these sorts of demands :]

Meatcoma > EL_ULY
05/12/2014 at 11:02

This^^^.. Don't wait and wait. Eventually they will say it's from something else and want to charge you. If something is not quite right after a service, take it back and have them make it right.

sefeing, actually bought an E46 > Squid
05/12/2014 at 11:03

That's what I've been trying to do. The pedal IS firm with the ignition off (after it's pumped). It seems to be incredibly sporadic as to when it happens. If I had to guess, mostly when I'm on and off the brakes a lot (around town or in traffic). I'll try to figure out about parking it and having it return to normal or not.

Sometimes it's good for a while, and then starts to get wonky, and then sometimes goes back to normal (air moving around?)

sefeing, actually bought an E46 > davedave1111
05/12/2014 at 11:04

They asked for details of when it happens, but it's tough to pinpoint since it seems to be on and off highway.

sefeing, actually bought an E46 > EL_ULY
05/12/2014 at 11:04

Yeah, I'll probably do this Friday. Dunno if they've got any ST's on their lot or not :/. I'll definitely bring it up again though to them, and ask to go for a ride with the foreman.

sefeing, actually bought an E46 > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
05/12/2014 at 11:05

That's what I'm thinking. I just need to convince the dealer of it to have something done about it.

sefeing, actually bought an E46 > OPPOsaurus WRX
05/12/2014 at 11:09

Agreed. As for the levels, as far as I can tell, they look all good. The reservoir is in a shitty place to try and look at, and I don't really know if it's okay to take the cap off to check? Does that let air into the system?

OPPOsaurus WRX > sefeing, actually bought an E46
05/12/2014 at 11:16

I think it draws from the bottom so probably not.

sefeing, actually bought an E46 > OPPOsaurus WRX
05/12/2014 at 11:17

Alrighty. Yeah, I'll double check that. Bleh. I'm pretty sure that it just needs to be bled, but I don't know how to convince the dealer of that. The car's only got 5k miles so it's not worn pads.

BJ > sefeing, actually bought an E46
05/12/2014 at 11:51

Tell the service manager that if you die in a car crash from brake failure, you won't continue to come in and give the shop business - his loss! If that doesn't work, ask him how much he figures the liability will cost him when the car fails to stop at a crosswalk in a school zone, and the fault is traced back to improperly prepared brakes.

Also, you could just go to another shop that's more willing to have your business.

sefeing, actually bought an E46 > BJ
05/12/2014 at 12:02

Yeah, i'm going to push for it Friday. I'd much rather bring it to an independent shop, but I'm also all for using the warranty that was included with my new car purchase (first one!). I'll see how it goes Friday. I could potentially bleed them myself, but I've never done it before.

BJ > sefeing, actually bought an E46
05/12/2014 at 12:15

Don't do it yourself. Call the other dealer if you have to, but do what you can to get it covered under warranty. And as the others have mentioned, do your best to keep track of the conditions (temp, etc) for when it happens.

EL_ULY > sefeing, actually bought an E46
05/12/2014 at 12:52

if they see that you have a line on the RO before, they'll look into it more.

davedave1111 > sefeing, actually bought an E46
05/12/2014 at 14:19

Still, you need to make them help you get the information they want/need.

sefeing, actually bought an E46 > davedave1111
05/12/2014 at 14:21

Agreed. I'll also request a ride-along.

davedave1111 > sefeing, actually bought an E46
05/12/2014 at 14:48

Sounds like a plan. It's surprisingly common when dealing with customer service stuff like that for the people you're talking to to try and make their problems into your problems. Just keep remembering whose responsibility it is, and don't let them.

Squid > sefeing, actually bought an E46
05/12/2014 at 15:24

It could be that your ABS module has air in it or has something going on. Or you could just be touching the brake when the fancy electronics are doing their thing pretending your front brakes are a true LSD. Try doing a panic stop and engage ABS, but do it in a secluded area where no one else is around. If there is air in the ABS module it may force it out or it may actually present a fault that can be easier diagnosed by the technician. Engaging ABS can be fun, plus it is always good to know how your car acts under a panic situation.

If there was air trapped in your brake lines you'd feel a squishy pedal at all times and it wouldn't present its self as an intermittent fault.

Also has your clutch engagement changed at all? Do you get any chattering or weird engagements?

sefeing, actually bought an E46 > Squid
05/12/2014 at 15:31

Nah, clutch seems to be fine. Sometimes the pedal is harder than other times, but that's a common thing with Fords apparently. Possible that its in the ABS module though. I'll give it a shot!