Long Live super wagons...oh wait...

"Moose Kitty" (moosekitty) 05/10/2014 at 23:01 • Filed to: None

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Spin that crankshaft you call a brain and think of a P1 wagon. It's just as fast, just as light, and even more amazing. What would this magnificent stallion of awesome be classified as...a station wagon. It would be forced down into the lobotomized class of the station wagon. I'm not saying wagons are bad or lame in the conception, but station wagon. The thing most Americans loath, and the heavy mongrel that doesn't have much purpose than getting better mpg than vans and having more space than sedans. A station wagon losses most if not all its performance and becomes uglier than an elephant seal.

You might ask yourself "then what's the difference?". Well you sir/ma'am already know the answer to that. A wagon looks good, doesn't perform like a bag of soap, and is the one thing Jalops and Oppos love other than Miatas. Whats better than a four door shooting brake right? Great examples are the 250 breadvan, Volvo 850 Turbo Wagon, and the Cadillac CTS-V Wagon. It would be disrespectful to call these wagons anything less than the awesome cars they are. The 250 breadvan came from the well love Ferrari 250 a super car, but it isn't seen as a SUPER WAGON. The Volvo 850 was a sedan that became an okayish wagon, but was handed a turbo. It became a SPORTS WAGON. The CTS-V wagon was a muscle car that got a stylish backpack. Thus the CTS-V wagon is a MUSCLE WAGON.

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I'm attempting to become an auto journalist...yeah...so this is a starting point. I'm open to anything and would like to see. I already race, but im in highschool and have nearly nothing to do all day. I talk about cars 80% of my day to people that don't care, so i thought "why not talk to people who do care, and make money in the process". I know I have so work to be done to get to that level, so why not get help from you guys, right?

Nibbles > Moose Kitty 05/10/2014 at 23:04

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Station wagons are for plebs

Gimme a 4 door shooting brake goddamnit

Moose Kitty > Nibbles 05/10/2014 at 23:05

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I'm definitely adding that.

Nibbles > Moose Kitty 05/10/2014 at 23:07

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Damnit, you had to reply after the edit timer went off! Okay, then

"Four Door Shooting Brakeฎ"

KirkyV > Moose Kitty 05/10/2014 at 23:16

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I call them 'estates'... Which, while it doesn't carry quite the same stigma as 'station wagon', is pretty boring in and of itself.

JGrabowMSt > Moose Kitty 05/11/2014 at 00:11

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Sir, I feel very left out here.

I do however completely agree with your point 100%. Somewhere along the line, people stopped seeing these things as cool, and it does hurt their image. The sedan isn't really cool, to be perfectly honest. Case and point, look at the early/mid 2000's Honda Civic. It's an econobox. It does nothing special, and didn't have anything special*. In fact, it gets uglier the farther back you go (I understand there are certain years that do look quite striking, but man, the rice). That said however, while this is purely my opinion, wagons of the past look really badass. You go back to the 50's and 60's, and those wagons were just as cool as the sedans they were based on. No one sees an old wagon and wonders why it's at a car show, they're just cool. They were lost for a while in the 80s and 90s when most of them really suffered in the styling department. That said, you've absolutely nailed it. The Volvo 850, the CTS-V Wagon, the Magnum, the Ferrari 250 Breadvan, these are the wagons that should have been made the whole time. To the people who know what's under the hood, or even just enjoy the styling, these things are as good as it gets. I think even the CTS wagon is one sharp looking ride, whether it's got the V or not.

Wagons are oddly specific to a certain type of people, and when you see them at shows, it's really obvious. The guys I see with older wagons that I talk to, they've always liked them. There's no articulating it, because it's just a deep personal preference.

I'm fine with calling mine a wagon, I tend to refer to it as the HEMI Wagon, or the swag wagon, but it's uniquely mine. It scares the ever living crap out of people with how nimble it can be, and how well it can up and haul some major ass.

In my opinion, the name got severely diluted in the 90's, when they just lost their coolness to a styling era that just didn't do it justice. It's very difficult to recover from that, and knowing that the Magnum has halted in the US and CTS-V are the last of the breed here in the US, it's sad, and a little annoying that Europe gets the 300 Touring, while the US doesn't. It's hard to be taken seriously at shows when you roll up in a 2+ ton 4 door with a hatch, because it's just a few inches shy of being a minivan. Wagon lovers know the feeling, but one day, maybe the wagon can return. The Ford Flex is really close, but just too tall. Chop that a few inches lower, and it could be really cool. Offer it with a Coyote and RWD, and I bet they'd sell. Make a concept, and people will drool. I'm no fan of Ford, but I'd still love to see it happen.

It would be interesting if you could try and identify where the wagon started to decline. I think it was after the Buick Roadmaster, about when the taurus wagon, and the focus wagon didn't help it at all. It just wasn't cool anymore. The Roadmaster had a corvette engine and rear facing jump seats. Two of the coolest things a 4 door vehicle can have.

I mean, the Roadmaster is cool enough for /Drive (their battle wagon), so that must mean something right?! The flattened jellybean styling was the beginning of the end though. They simply stopped being cool shortly after the styling started. Then Saturn tried a wagon, that simply looked dreadful and was underpowered, followed by the ford focus wagon. The Taurus wagon wasn't so bad for the styling, but I'm hardly impressed by it.

*Lets keep in mind that I'm specifically referring to 4 door sedans. Yes, " most " muscle cars are 2 door sedan body styles, but that's exactly my point, the four door sedan is no looker, and has always been an econobox. The two door sedan is where things started, but insurance most definitely got in the way of if staying a "thing." Enter, the wagon.

The rest is up to you. This is 99.9% opinion, so just keep that in mind while I find the flame suit.

Moose Kitty > JGrabowMSt 05/11/2014 at 00:51

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I like your points and I feel like hitting myself for forgetting the magnum. I hated when people would look down on me when my Celebrity wagon drove on into the parking lot. Yes it looked uglier than sin before i started work on the styling, but because I'm not one to agree with common sense i swapped the engine with a viper v10 and made it 4wd. It was great looking at mustang drivers and ricers faces when I smoked my way out of parking lots. It was later turned into my track car, but that was my attempt to show a wagon had great potential. Some would ask why and I'd give them sorta the same spiel I did in my post. The 90's were the worst for wagon lovers and is what i think ruined most Americans view of wagons. If i had better photoshop skills i would make a flex wagon (I'd buy it in a second).

The four door sedan has had so many issues since it was made, the two door sedan had potential, and I wished the shooting brake was more popular. If anything I call my Celebrity a wagon too, but when some one calls it a station wagon i have a trend of flipping on them, and then challenge them to a race. I like the HEMI wagon name nice touch to the Magnum. Anyway people need to see tha sweet awesome of the wagon.

JGrabowMSt > Moose Kitty 05/11/2014 at 01:24

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I would love to see if you had any pics of your Celebrity with the V10. That sounds positively disgusting, in all the best ways.

I would most certainly call the Celebrity a wagon. Four doors, extended trunk, rear hatch, with a sedan-like profile. I think that's the checklist of a wagon to me (and hopefully others). The Ford Flex is definitely not a wagon to me, because it's got the general profile of a minivan, while retaining the four doors. I think the Flex looks very good, just needs to be lower.

In fact, my parents have a Chrysler Voyager (I think the last year), and on the insurance card, it's specifically classified as a wagon. Oddly enough, my Magnum is listed as an SUV. I simply don't understand that, but whatever, the insurance is still low.

I think if more cars had a wagon model option, and it was more clear that it had a different (and lower) insurance rate from sedans, they might be able to regain popularity, and with that new found popularity, maybe even the power they deserve. Back in the 1960's, muscle cars were under-rated from the factory to accommodate lower insurance rates, and the wagons were completely insane (some pretty wicked factory spec wagons do exist), and I would guess they were in an even lower insurance bracket, despite how crazy powerful they are.

I will say that another factor that I feel has hurt wagons is just the stereotype that they've fallen into. While most of the cool wagons have avoided this, there are a lot of donked out Magnums, or just generally poor taste in the mods done on them, and that really gives them a bad stigma. Maybe I just feel that way, but I want to make sure that as I do more work on my Magnum, and customize it a little at a time, I don't want to make it ugly, I don't want to make it less useful, but more importantly, I don't want to rice it. I think that many people in the younger generation who are "into" cars, simply modify the useless stuff, while the important things go unattended, and ultimately cause the car to just fall into complete disrepair. Making sure every fitting matches the center caps on the wheels is hardly important compared to making sure the car isn't abused. It's just a tough thing to me, and while it isnt specifically wagons that are affected by it, the few "affordable" wagons today suffer greatly. The biggest factor behind me buying the magnum I bought was that it didn't have rims on it, and it didn't have a million mods to it. It was almost completely factory, and very well kept for it's age and mileage.

I want to believe that wagons can make a comeback in a way that isn't just for soccer moms that can't stand the minivan. I hope there's a future for cars that are just different. I wanted my car to be a wagon, and that limited my options by a lot, but I'm happy with it.

Hopefully I get to see the return of the wagon.

Moose Kitty > JGrabowMSt 05/11/2014 at 02:12

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If I can get my camera hooked up to my computer i'll gladly show you. That thing is ridiculous.

Im right there with you. I'd love to see the return of the wagon. Your pretty right with the ricing though for some reason some people like that. The insurance on my Celebrity was retarded low. If only automakers would look at the past and push the wagon. For a while now i've been driving a Roadmaster sedan and the only thing keeping my heart going was the engine. Funny thing was in my early years all i knew about wagons were the horrid 90's wagons and it ruined the image of wagons in my mind for a long time. It was until i had the chance to drive a Plymouth Belvedere wagon. That one ride pushed me into wagon world. 400 supercharged horse killing those rear tires was amazing and gave me the idea to bastardize my Celebrity. What mods have you done to your Magnum? And i never knew they were classed as an SUV hmmm...

I'm actually looking for a new wagon. I have two in mind right now: a 70 Belvedere wagon, and a 69 Chevelle wagon .

JGrabowMSt > Moose Kitty 05/11/2014 at 02:37

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Since I've literally had it for 8 days, I'm just beginning the process. I'm starting off with basic cold air intake, oil catch can, shorty plug wires, and the general fluid changes and cleaning involved with buying a used car, though it's so well kept, the oil change may wait a couple thousand miles, because it looks and feels really fresh. Polyurethane bushings will go in the front to fix the clunking and eventually rear when it's time for that. Beyond that, I'm still debating an exhaust. I'm just so damn picky, I feel like I have to find the kit on someone elses car, because if I buy a kit and put it on without knowing exactly how it will sound, I'll hate it. I'm thinking about side exit exhaust though, in front of the rear wheels, like some of the older mopars. Something to set the car apart from the rest of the chargers and challengers at nearly every show...

Long term, I'd like to fix the one thing that's been missing from the Magnum from the day it was put into production. Because of the computer control on everything, I'd like to do a 426 short block with TR6060 to give it a proper manual. Adjustable coilovers to lower it just a hair, and I'd like to try autocrossing it when i get there.

At first I had really thought about trying a SRT10 swap, but after a lot of reading, there's 2 confirmed ones in the midwest, but next to no info about either one. The only info is that they're both swapped from 3rd gen Vipers. In my case, I'd like to avoid cutting the firewall, so the 426 short block should drop straight in, and allow me to just re-wire the gauge cluster and work out the power locks/windows. It should also give me a stupid amount of NA power, with plenty of power adders to choose from if I have the itch for more. The big thing is keeping it mild though, because I want to keep it as a DD, so gas mileage is a concern, as I'm no millionaire (or anywhere close for that matter).

But with that said, given how well the 5.7 is running (and the fact that it has MDS) means I'm getting pretty good gas mileage for what the Magnum is, and I'm going to keep it relatively stock (no major power adders or engine work) for as long as possible, until I save up to do the swap all at once.

There's a local northern NJ guy who has a 1 of 1 Yenko Chevelle wagon if I'm remembering it correctly. Black with red stripes. He's had a for sale sign in it for at least a year, unless he's finally found a buyer. I can remember seeing it for quite some time, but don't know a whole lot about the car because I never catch him around it. Beautiful car though, I absolutely love it, but could never afford trust myself properly insure such a rare car at my age.

Moose Kitty > JGrabowMSt 05/11/2014 at 13:09

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Sounds like a good plan. For the Celebrity I just wanted a lot of power right of the bat and then move on to make more latter down the road. I will say it was difficult to do since the engine bay is really tiny (the engine had pushed into the cockpit) so not going with the viper engine is something you'll be happy you didn't do. I think I know what your talking about with the viper Magnums, and if I find any info on them i'll give you a heads up.

You'll want to leave that 426 NA if your going to autocross. It'll have gobbs of power and there's nothing lagging behind or draining your mpgs (turbo/super chargers). Plus there has been a trend of NA autocrossers beating records. You're good to be picky because it save you hassle and cash latter. For example when i was looking for exhausts for the Celebrity I started of with viper exhaust. I found one i liked and when i got it it didn't sound right to me at all (I latter found out it was because of my fabricated mounts). So I tried to get a refund, and when that didn't work i sold it on ebay for around $600 less than what i bought it for. All of that took 3 weeks of phone calls, hair pulling, and frustration. So be picky about it.

Thanks i'll look in to it. My dad's first car was a Chevelle and I asked him if he was okay with selling it to me. He then said i would have to kept it mint....yeah I wanted to weld a wagon hatch on the back. That conversation didn't end well.

JGrabowMSt > Moose Kitty 05/11/2014 at 13:57

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If I see the yenko wagon, Ill get better pictures of it. The plate even says "oneofone". Really classy looking car.

Im tempted to see if the 5.7 is decent at autocrossing, I just hesitate from the 143k on it. It pulls strong, but Im not sure it can take a beating like that, so Im being careful.

What mileage do you get from the V10? The celebrity isnt a heavy thing, so I suspect you get something actually reasonable for what it is.

Where are you located? Im in Northern NJ, Im wondering if youre not too far away..

Moose Kitty > JGrabowMSt 05/11/2014 at 14:07

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I got about 15 city/20 highway when it was road legal (still had passenger seats, ac, etc.). The last time i drove it (track specs) I got around 18 city/22 highway.

Im in Colorado, but i travel a lot so if I were to buy it I would be a road trip with me and a friend or my dad to go pick it up.