Clarkson doesn't like the Focus ST... I'm not sure I can like it anymore :(

"Stupidru" (Schm1an) 05/07/2014 at 22:52 • Filed to: None

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Jeremy Clarkson doesn't like the Focus, and since I regard him in the highest strata of beings, I'm not sure I can further want a Focus ST :(

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CRider > Stupidru 05/07/2014 at 22:54

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Well whatever you do, don't think for yourself or try to form your own opinions.

PS9 > Stupidru 05/07/2014 at 22:56

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He's obligated to not like it. It's too American. No matter how good the car is, he's going to shit on it if he knows the yanks built it.

Flat Six > Stupidru 05/07/2014 at 22:57

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Clarkson doesn't like pretty much anything from Germany or United States so its hard to take him too seriously.

Jayhawk Jake > Stupidru 05/07/2014 at 22:58

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To be fair, in that group I'm not taking the Focus either.

Crest > Stupidru 05/07/2014 at 22:58

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By that logic, please don't drive American cars anymore…..know what don't drive anything other than british and german built cars with the exception of porsche. That should be real easy for you eh

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Stupidru 05/07/2014 at 22:58

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good thing he likes the FieSta, since I own one...

Your boy, BJR > Stupidru 05/07/2014 at 22:58

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Stupidru > PS9 05/07/2014 at 22:59

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"WELL DONE, FAT MAN FROM KENTUCKY!"

While I know he is almost obligated not to like it, I had to post it. I'm laughing here because everybody s taking this so seriously

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Stupidru 05/07/2014 at 23:01

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Of those three cars, the Focus is out of the question compared to the other two.

That Astra VXR though. Hot Damn.

CRider > Crest 05/07/2014 at 23:04

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Going by Clarkson you can have an AMG Mercedes, an Aston Martin or a Ferrari.

Stupidru > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/07/2014 at 23:09

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Forbidden fruit for us, unfortunately. Out of the three, I would pick the Focus, because marriage and babies in our future

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Stupidru 05/07/2014 at 23:10

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Good. I don't like the Focus ST. I think it's ugly. It is a lot of fun to drive, but I simply would not want one... On the other hand I JUST WANT A MEGANE 265 SO FUCKING BADLY OH MY SWEET LORD IF ONLY I COULD FREAKING BUY ONE IN AMERICA I WOULD PRE ORDER THE DAMN THING UGH PLEASE.

Jayhawk Jake > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/07/2014 at 23:12

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I know, right?

GM should totally bring this over as a Buick

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Stupidru 05/07/2014 at 23:13

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Psh, just wait for that 25 year import ban. I'll be picking up an Astra in about 2035. It's got a back seat, I'm sure it'll baby good enough.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Jayhawk Jake 05/07/2014 at 23:14

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10/10 would buy, then replace Buick badges with Opel or Vauxhall.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 05/07/2014 at 23:31

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SOMEONE WHO AGREES THE FOCUS IS UGLY AS SIN.

Jayhawk Jake > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/07/2014 at 23:34

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Yes.

I wish I could get the right bumper to make mine a Barina RS

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/07/2014 at 23:35

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Inside and out, dude. Inside and out.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Jayhawk Jake 05/07/2014 at 23:37

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Those headlights. And that name.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 05/07/2014 at 23:38

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It isn't a car I could get out of and turn around and admire. And the interior is just a mess of buttons and shiny black plastics.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/07/2014 at 23:45

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If I were to get a hot hatch that's available in the U.S. (which I might be doing relatively soon), I would likely go with the Abarth. Sure, it's slower, less practical, and likely less reliable, but it's still better in every way. I would also consider a Mazdaspeed3, but I don't like the front bumper at all. And with a name like Volvo C30 T5 R-Design, I'm pretty sure that's out of my price range.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 05/07/2014 at 23:49

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The C30 T5 might be in range used. Considering I think that's the only way you can buy them now.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/07/2014 at 23:51

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Yup. They're not available new anymore. But I can't see myself buying new any time soon. Ahaha. Regardless, I don't understand the FiST/FoST hype.

Sorry basically everyone on Oppo. Don't reverse track my I.P. and burn my house down. Thanks.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 05/07/2014 at 23:52

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Have to agree.

We should both probably put flame suits on now.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 05/07/2014 at 23:58

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Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Stupidru 05/08/2014 at 00:02

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Well, technically the Astra is a hatchback Buick Regal isn't it? In that case, the Regal GS would like a word.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > PS9 05/08/2014 at 00:02

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He loved the Focus RS.

PS9 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 05/08/2014 at 00:06

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No, he didn't. He said it wasn't as good as the Astra, and it wasn't going to be no matter what because yanks can't build cars in top gear land.

Stupidru > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 05/08/2014 at 00:09

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As much as I'm only now starting to respect (some) American cars, I have been putting together a spreadsheet which has all of the specs for cars I want to look into in 2-3 years. In nearly every metric, the FoST is ahead of the pack.

For reference:

-2013 FoST

-2009 Outback XT

-2005 LGT Wagon

-2008 TL-S

-2013 TL SH-AWD

-2013 Volvo S60 R-Design

-2013 Cadillac ATS

-2013 Cadillac CTS Wagon (non-V)

Stupidru > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 05/08/2014 at 00:10

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I'm pretty sure I saw this as a Buick when I was in China last fall, and I wondered why we Yanks never got it

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > PS9 05/08/2014 at 00:11

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The last RS, in fact he raced it against a Lambo, saying it was one of the best affordable performance cars.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Stupidru 05/08/2014 at 00:17

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Even with the success of the Focus and Golf, apparently we don't buy hatch's here. That's why we got the sedan. The Regal GS is just an Opel Insignia OPC with the Astra's 4-cylinder instead of the turbo V6.

KirkyV > Stupidru 05/08/2014 at 00:37

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It's more of a German car than an American car really, anyway. Keep in mind that they've had Focus STs in Europe since the Mk1.

KirkyV > PS9 05/08/2014 at 00:41

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Uh, you may want to rethink that. If he doesn't like the current ST, it's not because it's an American car—hell, he probably doesn't even think of it as an American car, with the way Fords are generally viewed in Europe. He loved the Mk.2 ST, he loved the RS, he loves the current Fiesta ST, and one his all-time favourite cars is the old Escort Cosworth. Jeremy Clarkson, by and large, adores Ford. Indeed, if he's prejudiced against any brand in that video, it's Vauxhall! He's always hated them.

KirkyV > Flat Six 05/08/2014 at 00:43

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That's, uh, not true at all. He loves German cars, and he loves Ford. Like, a lot.

KirkyV > Crest 05/08/2014 at 00:45

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The Focus is German-built, and German-engineered. So is the Astra. Jeremy Clarkson adores fast Fords, generally.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Stupidru 05/08/2014 at 00:50

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Oh, its a great car and it's a total blast to drive. I just think it's ugly all the way around. I do think the FoST is better looking than the FiST, and that black makes it look substantially better, but I don't like the interior. It's far too cluttered and the steering wheel is awful in my opinion, but I strongly dislike 4 spoke steering wheels.

Off of that list, I would go Acura TL (either of them), Volvo S60 R-Design, LGT Wagon, and either of the Cadillacs before the FoST. They're just much nicer cars in various respects. The FoST will probably outperform all of them, but I'm an irrational being and like the slower Sonic RS and Abarth significantly more than the FoST.

If you don't mind my asking, what aspects of the cars is your spreadsheet judging? I'm certain that anything speed/fuel consumption related the FoST will be victor, but it's certainly not the most attractive or comfortable car on that list. In fact, once I make sure my flame suit is on correctly, I would argue that it's actually the ugliest car on that list and the car I would want the least as well.

Side note, that's a great list of potential cars. Please get the LGT Wagon. I want one an irrational amount.

m2m, apex detective > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 05/08/2014 at 00:58

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Consider this, though ... the Megane is even more terrible inside. But yes, it's more fun, and that is so by quite a margin.

I recently came to the conclusion that, while its power is easily enough for a hatchback, the Focus is more of a "very warm" car and not a full-on hot hatchbar, because it's not precise enough in all the fun. If you try to go max-attack on a bumpy road, you'll end up off said road, because you can't apply the steering wheel properly after reaching a certain degree of dedication; everything's too soft by then.

Also, Clarkson criticizing lift-off oversteer ... smh! Might as well recommend the Golf R.

wiffleballtony > Stupidru 05/08/2014 at 01:02

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That segment was pretty stupid. What we learn is the FoST was the fastest in a drag, the most versatile and the second fastest around their track. The exterior is a subjective opinion. And when I'm driving I don't fondle my dashboard. Even if the other two were here I would still get the FoST. Furthermore as much as I love Jeremy, he has biases and favorites just like everyone.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > m2m, apex detective 05/08/2014 at 01:12

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But I don't want a warm hatch. Hot hatches, in my mind, are terribly idiotic, impractical machines with a practical boot (yes I watch too much Top Gear and now I can't help but use British terms. It's a problem). The FiST and the FoST aren't that, and I think they're ugly on top of it. I would much rather have something significantly less comfortable but that's precise and fun enough to make up for it. After all, I'm a college kid. I won't have back problems for years, so I might as well enjoy that while I can.

And while the Megane may be worse inside, it looks significantly better. Seeing as I'll likely never drive one, that's all that matters to me. The Megane is a nice looking car outside too. So's the VXR, actually. I think Ford missed the target with the design with it's ST hatches, especially the FiST.

m2m, apex detective > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 05/08/2014 at 01:21

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I agree with you ... and to give Renault some credit, the switchover from "250" to "265" designation (doesn't count for the 265 Trophy, though!) brought the facelift's vast improvements in interior quality; still not as good as it should be to fall in line with the car's overall enjoyablity.

The Fiesta is too understated for my taste, especially around the butt and exhaust section. The Focus specifically is alright up front, but it's a sight only a mother could love at the back. They could have saved that with the wagon, but they didn't bother and fitted equally inattractive light clusters to that, too ... and that's not even the worst bit. While the exhaust note itself is again alright, the silly exhaust makes the ST's rear end very wondrous on both hatch and wagon. The Megane somehow pulls it off better ... though that might just be a side effect of the overall better-looking outside (or having that trapezoid exhaust masking).

//edit: Besides ... there are so many good samples to look at for inspiration. It may not have driven quite so nicely, but even Toyota managed to turn out a somewhat hot Corolla hatchback with the TTE Compressor back then:

That's a 2004 car, mind you ... doesn't look so old now if you park it next to the Focus. :?

Garrett Davis > Stupidru 05/08/2014 at 01:52

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About a month in on my Focus ST and I don't regret it one bit — even when the thought of a used 135i crossed my mind instead. It's the perfect balance of fun, practicality, and ridiculousness in a daily driver. If you want to take it easy, it's not punishingly stiff, it's quiet, and cruises comfortably. If you want to go nuts, go ahead watch that traction control light go nuts up through third gear, let the tail hang out around turns with loads of control, and then merge peacefully into traffic and be incognito.

To the strange folks in here saying it's not a hot hatch, you must have extremely high standards for what qualifies, and would also have to exclude just about any hatch in the American market. Seriously, if sub-6 second 0-60 times and the ability to reliably drift better than many RWD cars doesn't qualify it as "hot," then I don't know what to think about how jaded we've become.

Alex87f > Stupidru 05/08/2014 at 05:12

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Yeah, well, Clarkson, is also the TV car show presenter / amateur racer that made it look like an incredible achievement when he lapped the 'ring in 9:59 with a 200+hp RWD Jag. After a weekend full of laps. With Sabine Schmidt as a personal instructor.

He also said that a 500hp / 120k$+ range sport deserves to be call sport because it can keep up with a 200hp / 30k$ mini on a track.

Their show has always been a mix of entertainment and facts, but entertainment now seems to be the biggest part of the mix. You should take what they say with a -large- pinch of salt.

Stupidru > Alex87f 05/08/2014 at 06:54

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I acknowledge that he is in the entertainment business, but the /sarcasm was left out at the end of my top post. In all likelihood the FoST will be either my first or second choice when it comes to replacing my car in 2 years... and out of the list in that segment, I would take the FoST every time

Stupidru > wiffleballtony 05/08/2014 at 06:55

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The FoST was actually last around the lap, but that's semantics. I agree that if the other two were in the states, the FoST would still top my list. As much as I love Jezza, he is a total irrational buffoon sometimes

Stupidru > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 05/08/2014 at 07:04

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Having ridden in the Sonic RS quite a few times, I will say it's a much nicer layed out interior than the FoST, but I don't even think you could fit Peewee Herman in the "trunk" of that thing. Not to mention it's slower than me after a couple glasses of Scotch.

As far as the other cars go, if it came down to money not being an issue, I'd get the S60 R-Design. They need to depreciate a little bit until they regularly fall in the $20k range. I've had an LGT before and it was a brilliant car all-around so that one (or an 09 OBXT with the proper conversions, because it's 4 years newer and still has a manual) might win even without the metrics taken into account.

I don't love the FoST as much as everybody here does, but when you leave looks out of it, it's one of the most practical cars on the list and I'd be a fool not to take it into strong consideration.

Stupidru > Garrett Davis 05/08/2014 at 07:09

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The "stealth" factor is high with the FoST, especially in black. I've always had somewhat unique cars that never regularly pop up in traffic (but also never screamed "look at me!"), so being transparent would be a nice change of pace for me. I have already seen a handful of them cruising around my small down of <15k people, so hopefully people won't remember it as much if I get one.

And to address your last point, I wholeheartedly agree. Not to mention we Americans have been clamoring for a hot hatch like this for years, then Ford finally decides to bring it over (silly for an American-based company to have to import something to America, but that's another topic for another day). As an enthusiast, it's our duty to say "well done Ford, I'll take one and may I have another?"

Alex87f > Stupidru 05/08/2014 at 07:14

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Ahem, I didn't see that sarcasm... Crap.

What's the potential other first choice?

djmt1 > Flat Six 05/08/2014 at 07:33

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Looks like he is enjoying himself.

djmt1 > PS9 05/08/2014 at 07:35

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He shits on all cars, the only cars exempt from this are the cars that are his current favourites so 458, SLS ,etc.

djmt1 > PS9 05/08/2014 at 07:38

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Would you buy a car you hated twice?

duurtlang > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 05/08/2014 at 07:38

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Not really. The Buick Verano is actually an Astra, the Regal is a rebadged Opel Insignia. Both the Astra and the Insignia are available as 5-door hatchback and as wagon too.

duurtlang > PS9 05/08/2014 at 07:43

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Like KirkyV mentioned, EU market Fords aren't seen as American cars in Europe. They're about as American as that Vauxhall (GM), as in only the badge. It's hard to explain why, but it probably has to do with the fact that until recently the European Ford lineup was entirely different from what you guys got in the US and was entirely engineered and built in Europe.

Stupidru > Alex87f 05/08/2014 at 09:32

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Being the uber nerd I am, I have all of my choices on a spreadsheet for comparison between price, insurance, power, mpg, fuel tank size (currently drive >50 miles a day and I have a small tank that only allows me to barely go from Monday-Friday), price of replacement tires, cargo space, interior dimensions, stock features, curb weight, drivetrain, and things like lbs/hp, and hp/ft^3 of cargo space.

I'm looking at the FoST, 2011 WRX hatch, 2015 WRX sedan, 2009 Outback XT (still has a manual), 2005 Legacy GT wagon, Cadillac ATS (AWD & RWD), Cadillac CTS wagon (non-V), Acura TL-S, Acura TL SH-AWD, S60 R-Design, and the Golf R. So far the FoST is looking like it'll take the cake, but a lot is to be said for driving dynamics and smiles/mile- something a spreadsheet and numbers can't put a tag on

Garrett Davis > m2m, apex detective 05/08/2014 at 10:39

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Hark!

I seriously can't imagine anyone saying the Focus ST is not a hot hatch. I said it elsewhere in this thread, but if sub-6 second 0-60 times, the ability to controllably drift on command (in a FWD!), and one of the tightest, quickest steering racks in the industry today make it only "warm," then you must not believe hot hatches exist at all in the US, because the Focus is up near the top of the pile, if not the top, in every performance category.

You could say I'm just biased because I own one, but I did an insane amount of research to reach this conclusion, and went out of my way to in order to make my decision. Seriously: http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/hot-hatches-a-…

I'm just curious about how much time you've spent behind the wheel of one, because I have had absolutely no problems keeping it in its lane on any road surface reasonable enough to hoon around on. As for the steering, while it may be lacking a bit in road feel, no one could ever say it isn't precise or tight. Any torque steer is very manageable, and even without traction control it will not get away from you unless you foolishly push it much too hard around a corner or something, which could be said for literally any car. The one problem I do have in this area is that there is a fair amount of wheel hop when peeling out in first gear due to a rubbery rear engine mount, but the Speed 3 has the same issue, and if fact, the exact same part number for that rear mount, and is a very common first mod for these cars.

I'll let Motor Trend sum it up:

"This is an old-school hot hatch. It's made for hooning and doesn't know the meaning of the word compromise."

m2m, apex detective > Garrett Davis 05/08/2014 at 12:21

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Let me put it this way ... I drove the Clio RenaultSport 200, a Megane RenaultSport 250 Cup, another RS 250 in non-cup spec (no diff, more human chassis setup, less brakes) and the Focus ST in Euro wagon form and full kit. The Megane Cup was easily the tightest of the bunch, and by far the best in terms of overall feedback ... I have to admit that I spent less time fooling around with the Focus ST, but that's mainly because it didn't feel like it was made to be abused in the same ways that the Megane coped with so easily; it was also a relatively new car, so that might have somewhat spoiled the fun experienced.

I don't have a clue about the brakes on the Focus, and I'll just assume they do the job just fine; the Megane at any rate felt like a beast to me; going for a full stop from just under 120 mph underlined that solid impression. What bugged me a lot was the fact that one of the adjustment levers on the Megane Cup's driver seat came loose the first time I tried to use it. In terms of build quality (not necessarily the strength of the components themselves), the Focus again outclassed the Megane, and yet it didn't say "Let's do this!" to me like the Cup. With the bigger of the French enfants terribles picking up pace in corners becomes quite a thing, as you can use a lot of 2nd gear to pile up speed without the wheels giving as much as a shriek (the specimen I drove had the 19" wheels with 235/35 rubber). It's oddly enjoyable compared to the rather sanitized experience you get in the Focus ST. I still enjoyed the Focus ST a lot and I don't mean to badmouth it ... it's just not as exciting.

Your assessment that the Focus ST is hardly just "warm" with all that poke is true; it just doesn't feel as brawny as I expected it to be.

Have you had the pleasure of trying the Megane?

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Stupidru 05/08/2014 at 12:33

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True, the trunk of the Sonic RS is kind of a joke. So it the trunk in the Abarth, which a salesperson I spoke to called it the car's "speaker holder" because the Beats By Dre subwoofer takes up a decent amount of already limited trunk space. Honestly I've never driven a Sonic RS, but I read someone's Oppo review and with a few relatively cheap mods, apparently its almost as fast and way more fun than the FoST/FiST.

I really like the new Volvo lineup, though I wish they still offered the C30. My stepdad almost bought one, but opted for an Impreza Outback Sport because we get some nasty winters here so he wanted something AWD. As for Legacy GT wagons, I want this one:

To your last point, I completely agree. But I absolutely cannot leave looks of a car out of the equation. I would rather drive a slightly slower, less practical car if I was in live with the way it looked. In fact, I own two cars that perfectly match that description right now. I need a car that can make me smile when I'm walking up to it, and that might occasionally warrant a look-back when I'm walking away. The LGT would certainly do both, and I think a few of the other cars might as well. The FoST and the FiST warrants neither for me. I know a bunch of people who really like the way it looks, but I an not anywhere near that boat.

Garrett Davis > m2m, apex detective 05/08/2014 at 12:34

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Unfortunately not. I didn't put it together that you're from Europe in my post above, and now I can see where the Focus would seem more lax compared to the competition you guys have over there (and damn you for that!). I have driven a decently modified Mazda Speed3, though, which made over 300hp and 350 lbs ft of torque at the wheels, and it was nuts. It torque steered hard, but launched like a madman.

I wish we had the same selection over here. I can't wait for the RS to come out, we'll see how that one does, but otherwise, yes, I agree that the Focus is very civilized in comparison to some others.

m2m, apex detective > Garrett Davis 05/08/2014 at 13:27

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If it was for me to decide, you'd get both hatchback and wagons. It actually manages to puzzle me why you would get so little in terms of choice. If the "old" (read: hatchback) Impreza could be sold in the States, why not the Megane etc?

I wish someone would make it a business getting these hooning helpers overseas ... I bet it would serve to foster transatlantic relations. ;)

wiffleballtony > Stupidru 05/08/2014 at 13:29

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I was going off memory for my post, maybe it was the FiST review where the Ford came second.

Flat Six > KirkyV 05/08/2014 at 16:31

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Maybe you are right. He mainly hates Porsche

http://www.topgear.com/uk/jeremy-clar…

KirkyV > Flat Six 05/08/2014 at 16:33

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Oh yeah, he despises Porsche. Mercedes, BMW, Audi and VW, though? Generally a fan. He has a particular thing for AMGs.

The only marque in that video that he's prejudiced against is Vauxhall. He likes Ford - I get the feeling it's his favourite mainstream car brand - and is broadly neutral on Renault.