"tapzz" (tapzz)
05/04/2014 at 12:56 • Filed to: gender, fiat, chrysler
3
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"tapzz" (tapzz)
05/04/2014 at 12:56 • Filed to: gender, fiat, chrysler | 3
| 58 |
I'm not sure about the US, but in the UK, Fiat Chrysler seem rather keen to flog their wares to women. Nowt wrong with that, but have we really not moved on from their pre-Don Draper approach?
Exhibit 1: the Chrysler Ypsilon (yes, 'Chrysler', not the Lancia it really is- long story). As a ovary-haver, you are meant to buy this not because it's efficient, or cheap, or practical, or even nice to look at per sé - no, you buy it because it makes you look better than lipstick does.
Credit: Fiat Automobiles UK ltd.
Exhibit 2: the Fiat 500. Consumer durable as seasonal fashion item. Not even suggested; spelled out barefaced.
Credit: Fiat Automobiles UK ltd.
Is this in any way better than Dodge's 1955 wheeze to go after the same demographic with a pink Coronet called 'La Femme' with matching rain accessories and hand bag?
Credit: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
Now I don't posses ovaries, but I don't think I'd be particularly flattered by a company's suggestion that the only way I could be persuaded to buy their car is to think of it as a fetching pair of shoes.
To be sure, Fiat Chrysler do a very similar thing when they're trying to flog their stuff to us guys. A Dodge Power Wagon, for example, may have been an unassuming implement for moving lumber and hogs back in 1955, but a 2014 Ram 1500 is just as much a fashionable head-turning image enhancer as that Ypsilon.
The difference is, we can at least pretend that we need that truck for the manly man lifestyle we want everyone to think we lead. Put differently, the aspiration we're being sold is plausibly bound up in the product itself. What Fiat Chrysler is trying to sell to women is the aspiration of being fabulously fashionable, by pretending that their product is something it patently is not: a piece of clothing or make-up. Do they think their female customers are too dim to notice?
oldirtybootz
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 13:01 |
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As a man, I'm not bothered by these. I actually quite like that 500 ad, I love the retro vibe of it.
TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 13:01 |
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There's a reason why the Ypsilon turns heads. And then makes them turn back the other way…
duurtlang
> TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
05/04/2014 at 13:04 |
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The entire Lancia lineup has been forgettable for a long time.
yamahog
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 13:12 |
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We don't get these ads in the States, thankfully. Here, CUVs and crossovers have a high percentage of women buyers, and brands like Jeep are popular with women without pandering ads. The recent Cherokee and Challenger ads featured both men and women. I blame Fiat.
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tapzz
> TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
05/04/2014 at 13:14 |
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Indeed. I had some time for the original Ypsilon, but the current one is just a load of meh that's trying too hard.
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yamahog
> oldirtybootz
05/04/2014 at 13:20 |
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I'm the target audience and it's not convincing me, although I would probably like it a lot better if it said "drive" instead of "wear."
AthomSfere
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 13:31 |
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My thoughts, this ad is good enough.
How do you sell a car to woman who has no interest in cars, but as something to get around in?
How do you market what in the US at least is a good first new car, not a family car?
Something that looks "cute" and gets the gal to and from places she wants to go so she can do what she wants to do. Seems logical. Is it stereotyping and sexist a bit, sure, maybe. Is there at least a grain of truth to it though? I would say yes.
These buyers want a car their friends will call cute, not a car that they can track. They want a car that fits their lifestyle, why not market to that niche?
JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 13:34 |
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Is any of this any better than this?
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AthomSfere
> JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
05/04/2014 at 14:00 |
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Hehe, just ordered two STIs, thans Jawz!
Aaron James
> JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
05/04/2014 at 14:35 |
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This actually really makes me want an STI.
jalop1991
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 14:43 |
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How many penis substitutes do GM and BMW sell every minute?
You can buy a cheap truck, but you choose to show off how much money you have to your neighbors and the local women by spending $30K more than what's needed to haul drywall?
You can buy a nice Hyundai, but you choose to show off how much money you have to your neighbors and the local women by spending $30K more than what's needed to haul 4 people?
You, sir, have serious blinders on if you don't realize that the auto manufacturers are fucking with you EXACTLY the same way they're fucking with these gullible women? And yeah—that makes you gullible for responding to it exactly the way the marketers designed and predicted.
So go on and buy your truck and pretend that at least YOU'RE not being a gullible sucker, right?
Rogue5211
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 14:53 |
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Oh, this is easy. Italy is, as a nation, far more known and respected for its fashion industry than its reliable, practical, well-made car industry. These ads are making a connection to a strength instead of trying to fight a weakness.
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oldirtybootz
> yamahog
05/04/2014 at 15:12 |
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It would certainly make more sense.
CaptAFR
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 15:14 |
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In honor of "May the Fourth be with you", note to Chrysler: "That is why you fail!"
RichardNixon72
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 15:17 |
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Except the Dodge Le Femme was a gorgeous car with actual features made by a real company.
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JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
> Aaron James
05/04/2014 at 15:26 |
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I didn't say it didn't work, just that it's every bit as antiquated.
onyxruby
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 15:29 |
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Wow, someone is trying really hard to white knight over a perceived slight. The reality is that for many people their cars /are/ a fashion statement and they simply don't care about the types of things that jalops do - and that's okay. It's fundamentally no different than advertising a car because it can go fast, off-road or gets good mileage.
People care about the image their car projects whether it's a tough image, eco image or just about anything else. Picking a car on the perception of what it says about you is a well understood phenomenon and one that car manufacturers spend millions to get right. http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?c…
Who are you to criticize anyone for caring about fashion? Fashion is a multibillion dollar industry that is important to a lot of people. If someone wants to use fashion to model a car, who cares? Do you get righteously indignant when a car manufacturer uses models to market to gay men (which they do)?
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DutchRudder
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 15:29 |
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Damn Kinja; I think you meant to post this to Jezebel and instead it's been posted on Oppo!
osmosis1234
> Aaron James
05/04/2014 at 15:30 |
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"This actually really makes me want an STI."
Herpes any good to you?
"
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Aaron James
> osmosis1234
05/04/2014 at 15:41 |
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I prefer chlamydia since a round of antibiotics can fix you right up.
Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 15:49 |
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Is this for real? Almost every woman I know would respond well to these...are you saying that people don't buy cars as fashion statements? Or to look good? Many consumers do. This is marketing...this is how it works. What the fuck do you want...some black and white spec list with a little line at the bottom that says "Buy this car" and that's that? They do this because it works. Like it or not, there are gender differences. We're not androgynous.
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tapzz
> AthomSfere
05/04/2014 at 15:56 |
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Granted, most car buyers I know –female or otherwise– have no intrinsic interest in cars; they pick one on purely practical characteristics like fuel economy, price and reliability survey score, as well as whether it 'looks nice' and comes in a colour they like. Pandering to the latter is not a problem in my view, it's just how advertising works.
What I think is a bit more questionable is to make it quite so gender specific- as a bloke, I actually dig that 500's colour and retro hubcaps, and were I woman, I think I'd find the obvious gender bias patronising. I don't appreciate being marketed at with scantily clad women draped over the product either- much as I like the female form. More than that, though, from a female point of view, I'd be insulted to think that the only way Fiat Chrysler think I can relate to a car is by going along with their daft equation of it as a fashion item exactly like any other.
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tapzz
> JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
05/04/2014 at 16:08 |
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Hell no- no better. This exactly the kind of 'do you think I'm stupid' kind of crap Fiat Chrysler seems keen to pull on women, but then on men. I wouldn't be happy if I were Subaru.
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AthomSfere
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 16:09 |
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Are you female?
And the thing with marketing is: You will always alienate someone. If you think you see a niche under represented sometimes you take that risk and try it out.
I tend to remember once reading something about how you can sell masculine cars to women, but as soon as the car (or anything) is seen as a women's car, only women will buy it. Perhaps Fiat/ Chrysler see it as already too feminine and just want to drive sales where they can.
I know plenty of people that buy cars entirely on hearsay on the same factors you mentioned. It is a Honda, all Hondas are reliable and good on gas. All Volvos are safer to drive than being protected by the NSA inside of Fort Knox.
Combine whatever image these small cars and Chrysler / Fiat has with the fact that these are appliances for most people... Trying to accessorize them to a life style makes sense, especially today when even appliances are accessories:
Coty
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 16:11 |
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I love these wheels.
Roberto G.
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 16:34 |
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That is not the Italian FIAT. That's the British macho mentality (see Jezza) that we do not support. But marketing is marketing.
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Roberto G.
> TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
05/04/2014 at 16:34 |
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Eff you.
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tapzz
> jalop1991
05/04/2014 at 17:28 |
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How many penis substitutes do GM and BMW sell every minute?
Difference is, GM and BMW have learned to no longer advertise their wares as if they are actual penises with practically naked women slathered all over it.
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jalop1991
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 17:39 |
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That doesn't change that they design their ad campaigns specifically to appeal to those looking for penis substitutes, just like Chrysler designs their ads specifically to appeal to what attracts women.
These ad campaigns don't come out of nowhere; years of research has shown the ROI on such campaigns. If you want to bitch about anything, bitch to the women who respond to such ad campaigns by throwing money at the advertiser. Otherwise, STFU and GTFO. Chrysler doesn't exist to further some fucked up "black feminist" (yeah, I'm looking at you, Jezzies) view of how the world should be. Chrysler exists to maximize revenue.
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osmosis1234
> Aaron James
05/04/2014 at 17:51 |
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Herpes is much easier to spell,
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Aaron James
> osmosis1234
05/04/2014 at 18:14 |
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easy to spell, impossible to get rid of.
leftingvt
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 18:26 |
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No amount of money will make this look good.
darthd
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 18:47 |
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Too bad they end up in cars like these.
ranwhenparked
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 18:50 |
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Its is pandering, and it is no doubt a turn off to a certain segment of potential buyers, but the thing is, this probably is working for more people than it's turning off.
I put this in the same category as those over the top, macho pickup ads with the gravely voiceover and slow motion shots of kicking up mud, or the saccharine sweet Subaru radio ads with the granola muncher guy comparing his Subaru to his dad's vintage sports car or whining about his harrowing 3 mile drive to work that he needs AWD for. It's all segmentation and it's all offensive to people that hate being segmented and pandered to, but its effective for everyone else that's too oblivious to care.
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JohnKinnex
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 19:15 |
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I agree, these are a little too on the nose, but for most people besides cars being utilitarian they are status symbols that speak to their vanity and desire to be attractive. Truck ads, especially Ford ads talk about trucks for manly men only who need to shower at the end of the day because of the work they do, not time at the gym, etc. They play on gender roles. The percentage of car owners that are enthusiasts who care about less superficial aspects of a car is very small.
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tapzz
> onyxruby
05/04/2014 at 19:24 |
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I'm not criticising fashion- if anything, quite the contrary; I'm just saying that fashion in the sense that these ad reference it (clothes, make-up) is a different thing.
Sure, cars can definitely be fashion able , but that's a different matter. That's why there is a whole semiotics specific to cars – the whole harkening back to the original cinquecento, the shape of the c pillar on the Ypsilon, there's even a whole automotive colour fashion palette – that most people readily comprehend, even if they can't articulate it. So why try to sell cars by asserting that they are something they're not- it's insulting your customer's intelligence.
A car doesn't have to be a shoe to be fashionable.
PS9
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 19:50 |
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gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 19:53 |
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Baskingshark
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 20:05 |
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Angry Lancia Flaminia Zagato is not impressed.
Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 20:06 |
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What did they do with the scale here. That is a 2/3 scale human or a 200% scale car.
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jalop1991
> onyxruby
05/04/2014 at 20:15 |
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tapzz is all pissed off that the fashion concept might interfere with him getting his manly car with moar torques. Maybe he's afraid all he'll be able to get is something that screams "Barbie!".
1337 MR2
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 20:21 |
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Since when are cars NOT a fashion item? Lots of people treat cars as such. Men and women alike. The whole reason that cars like the VW New Beetle, Kia Soul, Scion xB, Fiat 500, Mustang/Camaro convertibles, Mini Cooper (and so on..) exist is because of fashion.
Marketing like this because it works.. when you have limited budget/space to market to a demographic, you aim for the biggest target. So, like it or not, guys buy stuff if they think it's going to get them laid and women buy stuff because they want to look good in front of other women. (oversimplified, but there you go).
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tapzz
> gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
05/04/2014 at 20:39 |
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Sold! I want eight balls too, so I'll get me some sweet Ferd F-teenthousand. Your move, Fiat Chrysler.
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tapzz
> Baskingshark
05/04/2014 at 20:44 |
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Given what's happened to Lancia over the past two decades, Flaminia Zagato is going to need a lot of counselling. I'm happy to be that therapist. Really, anytime.
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Baskingshark
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 21:00 |
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Heh, me too!
Funnily enough, the predecessor to the Lancia/Chrysler Ypsilon was the Lancia Y10, which was badged as the Autobianchi Y10 in Italy and some parts of Europe. That became the last Autobianchi before Fiat killed it off, and now it looks like the Lancia Ypsilon will be the last Lancia.
A girl I knew in high school had one of the Lancia Y10's. It was pretty terrible. The Lancia Y10 and Autobianchi Y10 are identical IIRC except for the rear tail-light panel.
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BlackLab
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 23:17 |
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These ads seem fine - even excellent. You have to remember not every advertisement is going to show every aspect of the vehicle. So you just try to keep in simple. With Toyota maybe you go for 'reliable.' For a Fiat you might to with stylish or trendy etc etc.
BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 23:26 |
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To be honest though, the Fiat 500 (as well as the entire MINI lineup) is sold in Brazil almost entirely as a fashion statement aimed at women. Getting into one as a man is almost the same as coming out of the closet. People will literally call you out on that, or at least comment behind your back, and I don't think anyone bats an eye. That's PC Brazil for you. Or rather, Rio Grande do Sul, I'm not sure the same happens in the rest of the country.
Also, this does not reflect my own opinion on the cars, or sexuality, or anything at all. I couldn't care less about people's lifestyles, I'm just commenting.
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onyxruby
> tapzz
05/04/2014 at 23:45 |
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You completely missed the point. The point is you took something (fashion) that you perceived as somehow being degrading to woman and made off like it was an old school volkswagen ad.
http://www.ukgraphicsdesigners.com/blog/2012/05/2…
You white knighted women thinking that you needed to rush to their defense assuming that fashion was somehow degrading to them. Manufacturers conduct extensive research to find what woman want, and the image it portrays is important.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/10077…
Quit being judgmental and close minded about other peoples values and viewpoints that don't match your own. The reality is that many people very much consider a car to be a fashion statement and that is just as much their prerogative as it is mine to pick a car for what I value. There's nothing wrong with marketing to your target market using things they value - whatever that is.
webmonkees
> tapzz
05/05/2014 at 05:00 |
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I'm not sure what demographic Fiat was aiming for at the time. Engineer carpooling fleets?
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vc-10
> tapzz
05/05/2014 at 07:06 |
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The 500 is seen as a fashion statement. Yes, it's a good car, but most people who buy them do so because of the style. And Fiat have had similar adverts aimed at men, with the sportier versions of the 500. It's not sexist- it's sensible advertising, aiming their products at the people who buy them.
SweetZombieJesus
> tapzz
05/05/2014 at 07:14 |
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Toyota markets its beige blandmobiles as "stylish" and with cool rims that stay "grounded to the ground". Not as overt, but they're marketing to idiots, and even worse with cars that are boring and NOT stylish.
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tapzz
> vc-10
05/05/2014 at 07:51 |
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I quite agree; a 500 certainly is a fashion statement. But why target it at one gender, or why assume that women will only respond if it is blatantly targeted at a stereotype of them? Most of all, though, why assume that women will respond positively if you insult their intelligence by asserting that a car is a shoe or lipstick?
I think a 500 works perfectly fine as a fashion statement in and of itself, for men and women.
d3v
> Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius
05/05/2014 at 09:25 |
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Maybe because she's not American and therefore smaller.
Just Cars for Joe Bryant
> tapzz
05/05/2014 at 10:04 |
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Really, and the small cute convertible car market is for dogs.
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vc-10
> tapzz
05/05/2014 at 10:57 |
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Because the 'Colour Therapy' range is all about fashion. And men don't tend to follow fashion in the same way, or at least to the same extent. They have similar adverts aimed at men within the same line of adverts (the lower one):
And also adverts aimed more at men:
It's also important to note that here in the UK, people don't have a problem with advertisers making adverts that aim a product specifically at certain people. The two adverts at the top (70s wear etc) were on billboards, while the sporty one was in newspapers and magazines. The one in the article was probably in a magazine like Cosmo. Women are also the main purchasers of new small cars, so it's no surprise that Fiat are aiming their advertising at women.
The Chrysler advert is likely to be a magazine advert again, with the legal mumbo-jumbo at the bottom. And again, is likely to be in a women's magazine. There's no point putting such an advert in Men's Health or something like that, and nor is there any point putting an advert all about how sporty the 500S is in Cosmo.
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RiddldedTomcat
> tapzz
05/05/2014 at 13:20 |
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Woman are stupid when it comes to cars... Most of them, not all. Most of them like what looks cute and don't give a crap about anything else. They hit the nail on the head with advertising to woman.
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tapzz
> vc-10
05/05/2014 at 16:57 |
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Both the 500 and the ypsilon print ads came from the weekend edition of a national broadsheet, and though I can't say I'm at all representative of the UK as a whole, I found them rather jarring; both on their own, as well as in the context of other UK ads.
The 'day to evening wear' is interesting, though- I'd not seen one aimed at men before.
chriswhotakesphotos
> tapzz
05/06/2014 at 08:19 |
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Oh my god.