Wrangler oilie; would one, buy one?

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 04/29/2014 at 15:16 • Filed to: Jeep

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Based on the QOTD and this article I came across from !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , I want to ask the question here:

Wranglers are pricey, despite the utilitarian looks and their rugged apeal, the JKU Rubicon you see there is going to set you back a solid $37 grand (or 1.5 mustang's V6 track pack in terms of trad able Jalopnik commodities) add it a premium on diesel and you are looking at $41,000 for a JKU Rubicon Ecodiesel with hardtop. That's a lot of money, getting on for 2 M-V6's.

Given that price, and given the things you could buy for that price...Would you put up your own money on one?

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 15:18

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Barf. I'd only get an oil-burner if it was going to be an off-road vehicle. I'd hate to drive a JK with a wheezy diesel at highway speeds.

HammerheadFistpunch > Party-vi 04/29/2014 at 15:19

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well, to be fair, the price premium is with the VM3.0, aint no wheeze in there.

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 15:20

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Barf. I'd only get an oil-burner if it was going to be an off-road vehicle. I'd hate to drive a JK with a wheezy diesel at highway speeds.

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 15:24

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I guess that wouldn't be too bad, but I'm still a sucker for gasoline Jeeps.

HammerheadFistpunch > Party-vi 04/29/2014 at 15:26

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So you aren't in the "diesel manual jeep JKU pickup is the brown manual diesel wagon of my dreams" camp?

Alex87f > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 15:26

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I'm most definitely not a diesel guy. But in Europe (think 6.5$/ga diesel, 8$/ga petrol), this is the kind of diesels that really make sense.

With the american gas & diesel prices, I'm not sure it would have much of an appeal economically speaking, but it can probably make good use of the added torque. That being said, the pentastar is probably the perfect engine for a wrangler.

dinobot666 > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 15:27

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You might be the first person in history to cross shop a Jeep and a Mustang. ;) Really though, if you want something to go exploring off-road, a JK with the Pentastar V6 is tough to beat in terms of smiles to miles.

You could buy an older TJ Wrangler for way cheaper and still have lots of fun.

HammerheadFistpunch > Alex87f 04/29/2014 at 15:28

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The perfect engine for the wrangler has 6 pots in a row and never breaks. but the pentastar at least makes driving one palatable now.

cazzyodo > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 15:28

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My feelings on Wranglers is well documented here.

$40k is steep, though. I'd pony up mid-thirties if I had the means.

TillTheWheelsFallOff: Brocoma > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 15:29

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It depends on how much use I was expecting out of it. I'm also going to assume I have an unlimited budget because I don't have $41k for a vehicle. Right now, at my age would I buy one? Yep, then send it in for the Brute DC treatment. That's the ideal vehicle for me.

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 15:30

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I'm in the "bring back the fucking 4.0L and get off my lawn you damn hippies" camp. Also the "when are you going to give us back the Comanche/FSJ pickup" camp.

HammerheadFistpunch > dinobot666 04/29/2014 at 15:34

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I am certainly NOT the first person to cross shop. V6 mustangs and Wranglers are definitely competing for some of the same buyers.

HammerheadFistpunch > Party-vi 04/29/2014 at 15:36

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yeah the pickup...I can't understand why they can't do this. how hard could it possible be?

Party-vi > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 15:37

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It probably needs to be based off of a Fiat chassis/platform, or ChryslerFiat can't afford to sell an additional solid axle JK-based vehicle due to CAFE. I would buy the fuck out of a JK-based Pickup.

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 15:38

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Ram. That's how hard it is.

Alex87f > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 15:38

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Isn't a cummins a bit heavy for the small wrangler?

HammerheadFistpunch > Party-vi 04/29/2014 at 15:38

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Damna you CAFE!

HammerheadFistpunch > FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 04/29/2014 at 15:39

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rammit.

HammerheadFistpunch > Alex87f 04/29/2014 at 15:42

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not really, its just a matter of heavier coils and shocks.

The Pentastar 3.6 weighs 380 lbs, vs 480 for the VM3.0

100 lbs is significant, but well withing the range of being able to compensate with coils.

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 15:46

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I'd be really curious to know what the profit margins are on a Wrangler. I bet they are in the brand new must have that newest pickup truck range of $8,000-$10,000.

But more generally, yes diesels are expensive. That's why I've never understood why people on Jalopnik clamor for them so much. A good chunk of that $4500 markup is emissions equipment as well. Diesels use to be much cheaper, but giver their price and the way we pay for the highway trust fund they don't make tons of sense for most applications.

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > Party-vi 04/29/2014 at 15:52

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Chrysler is already feeling the CAFE GHG heat. EPA released a report last week detailing fuel economy credit trading between the OEMs and there were only 3 OEMs that bought credits - Chrysler, Ferrari, and Mercedes. Unless this new 200 sells like hotcakes it doesn't look much better for them in the future.

Alex87f > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 16:08

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Oh yeah, I agree with you on this. but the inline-6 you were mentioning, it's the cummins, right? That's not 480 lbs :)

HammerheadFistpunch > Alex87f 04/29/2014 at 16:09

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Ah, I getcha. yeah, about 800-900 lbs for the 6BT.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 16:41

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Pretty much anything else. I have a JK Sahara 2door... I have not had a very good experience. It also falls into a weird middle ground between the old, real wrangler with spartan, off-road greatness, and something that's sort of trying to be a real car for the street but is kind of having an identity crisis. What you end up with is less fun than the old Wrangler but that still sucks to drive on a normal road because it's just Wrangler enough to be pretty damn inconvenient. With the loose steering and the road noise, its one of the worst road trip vehicles ever and it's terrible on gas. If you have a bunch of money to throw into it and make it a real, off-roading, bad ass Jeep, thats one thing, but if you're going to keep it stock and won't off-road it A LOT to make up for otherwise terrible drivability I would urge you not to even bother with it.

And for $40k I'd rather get a something new(ish) and fun, like a lightly used JCW MINI or a BRZ, and spend the rest on something old and fun, like a BMW 2002, Alfa GTA, or maybe something Bronco/Defender flavor.

HammerheadFistpunch > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 04/29/2014 at 16:53

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I guess it depends on what you want it for. Road trip? no, its not a good road trip machine. The suspension geometry in the front has poor lateral stiffness intentionally for maximum articulation off road, the result is terrible road manners and steering feel, plus the short wheelbase on the 2 door model exacerbates any underlying handling issues. The JK wrangler is NOT a touring machine, though it can be made to be an okay tourer, what it is, is designed with out the door off road capability that is peerless. if you need a good road trip machine, try a land cruiser UZJ100 or even a nissan xterra, if you want to do slow and medium speed trails...the wrangler is your best bet. Scott Brady sums it up well.

Also, just because aren't using the vehicle as it was intended doesn't make it a bad vehicle.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 17:03

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Right, but it was effectively my only car and for that purpose, it kind of sucked. No one really buys a brand new car specifically to go trail speeds. As a modern car it should be able to handle longer periods of road driving since 99% of people will be driving it on paved roads most of the time. And I won't even get into the reliability issues, because we'd be here all day.

The issue is that it's a Jeep. It's supposed to be pretty bare bones and off-roadable, which it sort of is, but then you pay more than $30k for it. Shit, my xTerra cost $21k brand new and it was honestly better at doing everything (touring, off roading, driving in deep snow, room for activities in the back) and was more comfortable while doing it, but it didn't look quite as good and it wasn't a Jeep Wrangler, so I paid less.

My conundrum is that I love Jeeps. Or rather, I love pre-JK Wranglers. The JKs are too expensive for a normal person like me to be comfortable off-roading it because of the possibility of marring the paint or breaking something and the fact that I don't want to spend $500 each on good upsized tires, but not expensive enough that Jeep spent any money making the inside of the car comfortable. The brand new JK's are a different story, but therein lies another issue. They're barely Wranglers anymore. They're cheap G-Wagons. I want Jeep to actually be Jeeps. Not this weird "almost a Jeep but almost a road-oriented SUV that handles like shit" middle ground

HammerheadFistpunch > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 04/29/2014 at 17:19

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You can still buy a stripped wrangler if you want, it will be close to a TJ but get better mileage, be less noisy and leaky and be able to pass traffic. If I hear you right, you want a rugged and simple vehicle...that will also be at home on the road? The fact that the JK is better on road than the TJ is direct result of feedback like this. Too be honest, I'm thrilled with the improvements in the JK over the TJ. The TJ was a turd other than being dead reliable (stock) but it had pansy ass axles that would break with anything other than stock wheels and an anemic engine that put it on the worst performing new car you can buy in America list more than once. Plus since the death of the XJ, jeep needed a rugged 4 door and the JKU is killing it there, they can't keep up with demand. When you assign a brand an identity with a narrow focus, you will always be disappointed, because there is no room to evolve in that space. A MINI should be this and a Jeep should be that and a Jag should be this...its like prequel movies, we know the plot, we know how it ends...no surprises here. The JK is pricey, but its much cheaper than a brand new TJ would be if you updated all the components to be as good as JK components are, even with inflation. Jeep simply saw the JK as an opportunity to right some wrongs with the TJ.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 17:45

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I agree with what your saying, but my experience with my Dad's TJ was infinitely better than with my JK. I've had the JK for less than a year and I'm already getting rid of it, mainly due to reliability factors. In the 8-ish months I've had the JK I've spent roughly $4k more in repairs than my dad ever put into his TJ, an he ran it for a few years. When he finally sold it, it had more than 200,000 miles on it, vs. my JK which has 45,000. Now, I might have gotten a bit of a lemon, but I can only base my opinion on the JK off of my experience with it and it has not been a positive one. I would kill for the slower, bulletproof engine of the TJ right now. And, I hate to say it, but the 2010 3.8 v6 isn't the best engine either. Though I've driven the newer Pentastar V6 and it's significantly better.

As for Jeep's brand image, and images in general, you're right. Assigning roles to certain brands is a slippery slope, but every other vehicle Jeep makes is mainly road oriented. Sure, you can take a Gran Cherokee off roading, but you won't. In my opinion they have diverged so far from what they were only 10 years ago that the fact that the newest JK comes with an interior clad in leather and chrome with plenty of electronics and creature comforts is basically saying to everyone who would prefer a real off-roader "Yeah, we appreciate that you love our brand but you should probably buy used because we don't really offer anything for you this year." If thats what Jeep wants to do, that's fine by me, but do it. My JK is the transitional period. No, it's not the purpose built off-roader that really shouldn't be driven on the highway, but it's also not this year's leather-clad American version of a cheap G-wagon. I bought it with the intention to go off roading a little bit. Nothing major, but mainly trails. It does that alright, but its not the Rubicon so it doesn't have a locking diff or any of the things that a full-blown Jeep would ideally have, and its too expensive for me not to care about the possible paint scratches if I need to drive through some brush so I've gone off-roading in my car a lot less than I would've liked. I've also noticed that, where I'm from at least, new Jeeps never see dirt. Especially not Unlimiteds. They're usually driven by moms, which, again, is totally fine, but a little disappointing in my opinion. People who have new JK's and also to a fair amount of off-roading usually have something older and more purpose-built that they would basically never drive on the highway, like a dirt-prepped TJ or something.

Anyways, I feel like I'm rambling. Ahaha. Long story short, I won't be spending $30k+ on a new Jeep again any time soon. Especially not if they don't figure out reliability issues (apparently they are rated below Range Rover, but I'm too lazy to verify that right now). My next Jeep likely won't be for a while, and when I decide to go that route again I'm going to buy a jeep. Not a Jeep, but a jeep... But maybe a jeep from Jeep. Just a old school little off-roader. I've confused myself.

HammerheadFistpunch > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 04/29/2014 at 17:50

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Bummer that you've had such bad luck with yours. Can you elaborate on what has gone wrong? Just curious. Also, the 3.8 was never a great engine, though it was still more powerful than the AMC 4.0 HO.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 18:23

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Yeah, no problem. So here are the major issues, in approximately chronological order

1. 2nd gear blew up, transmission rebuilt
2. New transfer case plus 4WD system overhaul
3. Something happened with the diff, and it needed to be rebuilt (less than 2 months after 4WD overhaul)
4. I had some weird electrical issue that was explained to me, but too complicated for me to comprehend
5. The right front brake would stick and it would feel like I was driving with the ebrake on. It would eventually release. Needed new pads, rotors, and brake lines (still no idea why this happened)
6. Steering bushings went super prematurely. No one really knows why
7. Alternator died (independently of the electrical issue above)
8. 5th gear died, which is kind of important for highway driving. Transmission replaced
9. Something recently went wrong with the brakes again resulting in the "death wobble" even though I had brake work done not long before.. it's still in the shop so I'm not 100% on what the deal with that is.

Luckily the dealership "extended my warranty" for some of that, meaning they felt bad for me so they gave me better pricing. Still a lot of money though.

I believe I'm trading it in soon. I'm not sure what will be replacing it yet. It sucks though. My dad has always had Jeeps and I was psyched to one day have my own, and then I got one and it was a bit of a nightmare. Oh well. you win some you lose some.

HammerheadFistpunch > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 04/29/2014 at 18:25

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Sounds like a Lemon, The several people I know with the JK haven't had any of those problem. You could jump camp and get an FJ cruiser?

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > HammerheadFistpunch 04/29/2014 at 18:30

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Yup. I'm getting that feeling as well. I was actually thinking about an FJ. I think I want something a little smaller though. I'll be in either Manhattan or Boston for the next 2-3 years, so a smaller car would be less of a headache.

handsoff > HammerheadFistpunch 04/30/2014 at 00:51

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After it's had 10 years to depreciate, maybe. I bet these will hold value like TDIs though, so maybe not. Mrs. handsoff says it would have to be yellow, so probably not