We Are In A Manual Transmission & Performance Car Golden Age

"PardonMyFlemish16" (TheCoolKid) 04/28/2014 at 15:25 • Filed to: None

4

25

Many people have said the manual transmission is dying. "Save the manuals", they cried. At the same time though, I'm sure many of those people would also acknowledge that cars have never given such a high performance per $$$ ratio ever. Like in the history of the automobile.

Here's the thing though. Most of the high performance cars we are seeing are affordable too. And more importantly, they come with stickshifts. Remember in the late 90s when pretty much every Japanese manufacturer but Honda pulled out of the sport car market? The mid 90s were the good old days, right? I'm not quite so sure. Looking at cars now vs then, I feel like we are getting the better end of it now... let's look at some examples:

Honda Civic Si- Then vs. Now

Now off the bat, I have to say, I am angry at Honda for dumping "real" DOHC VTEC for the 9th gen. Instead of the profile changes on both cams with a tubular header, we get the "economy" version, with cams changing only on the intake side, and a really shitty log manifold cast into the head to get the cat warm fast for better emissions. Even still though, this new Civic Si is faster, has higher handling limits, a much needed extra gear, more interior room and a mechanical LSD. Could it use another 20-30HP to tango with the competition? Sure, but it's still up tremendously over the overworked B16 equipped EM1- which, strangely, is changing hands at as much as 10K- not much less that best of the breed, the 06-11 version, which also comes in 2 or 4 doors. All this, available at an MSRP that is significantly lower once you factor in inflation.

BMW 3 series

Again, there are things I'm not happy about going from the old to the new... I still don't think the NA 6 had to die, and while the 4 performs better on paper it really traded character for specs. That said, in the context of performance and the manual transmission, it's pretty damn hard to fault the F30. The 320i is pretty much in line with a 325-328i from the 90s, and the 328i is on the level of the E36 M3- again, in specs, not character. 335i, M3 etc are all on a whole nother level. And don't forget the 328 & 335d (both of which I have seen in the past few weeks- don't know if they are actually on sale here), and the deluge of body styles, many of which are available with stickshift. The 3 series now compared to the 3 series before definitely gives you more options, better performance, and most importantly a stickshift for pretty much any combination you can think of.

Ford Mustang

420 HP for $31,000. Nuff said.

Now it is true that stickshift is becoming less available, but I wouldn't exactly say that is for a lack of trying on the manufacturer's parts. Sure, cars like the Camry and Maxima lost their manual transmissions, but here are two points about that.

A bad manual transmission is not worth saving, and a bad car can't be saved by a manual transmission

I have had several manual Maximas, as have many of my buddies... most of them, especially the ones with the 3.0(s), had terrible manual transmissions. Rubbery, imprecise, long shift throws and similarly bad clutches. By my 2nd one I was seriously considering going automatic. Hell, the stick in my Z is still pretty bad compared to any manual box in any newish Honda. And a big wallowy ass Camry is not going to turn into some sharp driver's car with the addition of a 3rd pedal. So in most cases we didn't really "lose" anything.

Transmission choice has always been about COST.

Why were manuals so popular 20, 30, 40 years ago? Many folks like to think it was because people enjoyed driving more or were more enthusiastic. The reality of it is manuals were a significantly cheaper choice, both upfront and over the life of the vehicle. An automatic transmission could add 5-10% of the cost of the car to the purchase price, and through its slushiness and lower gear count be at a significant operating cost disadvantage. Autos were also nowhere near as reliable then as they are now. For folks buying at the lower end of the market (i.e. Civics and Accords) this was significant and drove a lot of the manual buying.

Now, an automatic is a lifetime item, as well as a near zero to zero cost option, with no wear items like clutches to be destroyed or replaced. And of course, in many cases, the automatic will have more gears and be programmed to put you in the gear to best match what you want to do, whether it be saving fuel or driving spiritedly... as well as losing much less forward momentum between shifts. For people who just want to get from point A to B, it's also easier to drive. So people are choosing them more and more. Yet, in spite of that, you can still get a 6 speed manual in something as hum drum as a Corolla, even though you know Toyota is probably losing money on the dozens of manual Corollas they sell annually these days.

Dude WTF is your point

Listen, OK. I am on my 6th stickshift car over the last 10 years. I've driven everything from Fiats to !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and a lot of stuff in between... including the current GT-R at a track day. So I have seen many sides of the transmission game, and I am still loyal to stickshifts. But I bought a fully loaded 350Z 6MT for 9K last year. When in the last 10, 20, 30 years could you EVER get that kind of all around performance for that kind of (inflation adjusted) money? Economy car, hot hatch, peformance car, sports sedan, sports car.... barring the outright extremes (i.e. cars that can do the quarter in under 12 seconds) where are we lacking in stickshifts or performance value?

It's time to put the myth of the dying stickshift to bed for once and for all. We have never had more choice

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > PardonMyFlemish16 04/28/2014 at 15:39

0

I think that it's the changing swing in public opinion toward enthusiast representation *best expressed in* such things as "save the manuals" that has produced this wide set of options. In other words, the enthusiast spoke, and the carmaker answered, but only because the enthusiast was easy to placate at the same time as the larger market. Does this mean someone panicking about manuals disappearing is on the ball? Perhaps not, after all we've been heard. Does this mean there never was a need for a "save the manuals" panic? I don't think so - they'd not have given us the options if *we hadn't asked for them*. Does this mean that we should rest on our laurels now that we've "won the fight"? I'd also disagree on that approach. More and more, they're trying to cater to their idea of enthusiasts with "flappy paddle" options on otherwise wretched autos, and offering high performance tunes to *offset* increasing quantities of lard. Yes, this is the era of cheap performance - BUT, there has never been a better time to demand manuals as an option, because it's a *specific* enthusiast taste, and not automatically a part of larger "MOAR POWER" tastes.

tl;dr: Performance and enthusiast needs are not automatically the same. It's easy to get makers to recognize one, less so the other. The time to "save the manuals" continues to be now, and high performance car availablity + high manual incidence in performance cars is no guarantee of future offerings - it's very possible for one to continue thriving without the other.

In short, once again I think your argument could do with more nuance and attention to the standing counterpoints- a little more care not to use a straw man.

PardonMyFlemish16 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/28/2014 at 15:45

2

I think you put a little too much stock in the tangible power of the internet activist. There is a lot of romance in the idea that the "save the manuals" campaign has had any tangible effect, but ultimately manufacturers are going to follow the money.

One legitimate impediment to the continuation of the manual is the car salesman. Since they are harder to move they hate them which starts a cycle. But even still, the manual endures, not because some people on the internet who probably will never buy new demand it, but because there are people speaking with their dollars and telling manufacturers to continue to build them. Something like a Corvette or Mustang will ALWAYS have a manual option.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > PardonMyFlemish16 04/28/2014 at 15:46

0

but... My Taurus SHO has no manual :( Haha, for the most part I agree though, I sat at my desk thinking of vehicles that need manuals and I think trucks are currently the type of vehicle most glaringly missing them.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > PardonMyFlemish16 04/28/2014 at 15:55

0

That was part of what I was addressing, actually: the campaign itself probably doesn't do much, but it's emblematic of other trends. Continuing/encouraging a small part of those trends (like the campaign) is, however, a good way to keep those trends healthy. Those trends are what inform the more casual enthusiast, who may be more likely to have money...

In other words, the Save the Manuals sticker guy isn't saving the manuals by himself, but his friends who merely like the occasional manual need his enthusiasm to exist for manuals to stay cool and on their possibilities list.

As to Vette/Mustang: maybe. The jury's still out. Enough long-term erosion, and maybe not. It's worth considering, though, that those cars having stick as an option really isn't enough.

Disclaimer: I myself DD an auto. I am encouraged, however, by a healthy love for manuals *in enthusiast circles* to consider stick when thinking of future purchases. I might not otherwise care that much - I've got a stick hobby car. Peer pressure is not to be discounted.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > PardonMyFlemish16 04/28/2014 at 16:19

0

I agree that we're in a golden age, and yes, we have great options right now . Today. Like I stated in our earlier conversation (which I assume was partially the impetus for your post), my fear is that in 10 years, the options for those of us who prefer a manual transmission will be far fewer.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/to-name-a-coup…

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 04/28/2014 at 16:22

0

I think you need to trade that SHO for the SS with manual and mag. suspension when it drops!

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/28/2014 at 16:22

0

I am encouraged, however, by a healthy love for manuals *in enthusiast circles* to consider stick when thinking of future purchases. I might not otherwise care that much - I've got a stick hobby car. Peer pressure is not to be discounted.

Especially when that peer pressure says "Let the clutch out already, damnit!" :)

PardonMyFlemish16 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/28/2014 at 16:27

0

Mmmmmmm thats really shaky. The trends/campaigns are only relevant due to the underlying interest driving them. I.e. someone with a stickshift car will probably influence their friends around them just by having a stickshift car, not by being a bumper sticker activist. I was the first guy in my social circle with a stickshift car, and eventually all my friends came around... but I didn't cajole or campaign them, or have a "save the stickshift" sticker (though I did have an "NA is Best!" and AEM sticker on my 2nd car) it was all organic. So these campaigns don't generate results, they ARE results.

Anything could happen in the future and it's kind of silly to speculate so specifically against a mountain of evidence suggesting otherwise, IMO. Mustang and Corvette have always had a huge stickshift take rate. I like to use classified ads as barometers for what kind of models sell. The 2011+ Mustang has a ~30% stickshift take rate on Autotrader in the US right now. C6 has a take rate of nearly 50%. Even with the coming 8AT, the idea of an auto only Corvette or Mustang just doesn't seem realistic in the near or distant future.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/28/2014 at 16:27

1

Haha, I'm just not a Camaro guy. From chevy, the SS manual is something I could go for. Other than that I am anxiously awaiting pricing of a used '15 Mustang, 5 years from now, lol.

For now I will be driving the SHO! A tuned, catless-downpipe equipped Taurus is still a hell of a fun car, despite the auto trans (which I should add is a very good trans in my opinion).

PardonMyFlemish16 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/28/2014 at 16:30

0

What cars available with stickshifts now look positioned to lose them in the next 10 years?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 04/28/2014 at 16:32

0

ALL CARS NEED TRUCK CLUTCHES

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > PardonMyFlemish16 04/28/2014 at 16:32

0

I agree with you on the Corvette and Mustang (and GTI, 911, M3, etc.), and least for the foreseeable future. Here are some numbers: "19 percent of all new cars on offer in America (2012) can be equipped with a manual transmission, down from 29 percent of all new models in 2006". The vast majority of manual drivers learned because their first car was a manual, or one of the cars they learned on was a manual. Even though you posit that this isn't much of a loss (for a variety of reasons), it will mean fewer and fewer young drivers (at least in the States) will learn how to drive a manual, and I can only assume that this will lead to fewer sales of manuals long-term, even in enthusiast-targeted cars, for the pure and simple fact that more customers will have never learned how to drive one.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/28/2014 at 16:33

0

Specifically cable operated truck clutches in an oil bath.

PardonMyFlemish16 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/28/2014 at 16:41

0

The vast majority of manual drivers learned because their first car was a manual, or one of the cars they learned on was a manual.

I'm not quite sure about this. What are you basing this on? I know this is anecdotal but besides myself and one other buddy, of the dozens of car buddies I have pretty much all of them started with an automatic hand me down. Based on the % of autos vs manuals on the road today I imagine that's how it is for most enthusiasts who get a hand me down car.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > PardonMyFlemish16 04/28/2014 at 16:42

0

I'd bet the next M5 won't have a manual (they already tried to kill it). The new Outback is CVT only - perhaps the only Subarus left with one in 10 years will be the WRX/STi and BRZ. Will you still be able to get a Cadillac with one? Maybe, if sales prove strong enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if not. I have faith in Mazda, BMW and Porsche to keep offering them in most of their models, but unless Honda turns a corner, it may not have any left either. Lexus, Acura, Infiniti? Probably not.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > PardonMyFlemish16 04/28/2014 at 16:43

0

Sounds like it's OPPO poll time...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 04/28/2014 at 16:47

0

I'm looking forward to test driving the SS when it comes available. I test drove a CTS-V (automatic), and if it feels anything like that, it's going to be a great car.

quarterlifecrisis > PardonMyFlemish16 04/28/2014 at 16:49

0

That first photo is shopped...but I love it.

It's a C6 gear shift with the C7 shift pattern on it...as evidenced by the extra gear and the C6 interior.

Yep, I had to be that guy. Sorry.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > PardonMyFlemish16 04/28/2014 at 16:58

0

I think we're arguing past each other, and arguing different versions of what's ultimately the same point. You could ask "did 'I like Ike' stickers get Eisenhower elected?" Well, no. People who did, in fact, like Ike got Eisenhower elected. However, in so far as "I like Ike" is a handy Shibboleth and rallying cry, it wasn't *merely* a symptom of that group's relevance, it was a self-reinforcement. In other words, the memes of a groups expression are products of it, and *in a true viral sense* have no self-capacity to be duplicated, this much is true. The thriving of memes, however, reinforces the solidity and continuity of purpose of a group, and thus that group's effective pressure on those at the margins.

I agree manuals speak for themselves, in a sense. However, whereas now "it's manual" can mean a sports car (again), it hasn't been long now since it was widely believed declasse' by the public at large - something in economy models only to most of the market and their perceptions. Suddenly, we went through a phase in which cheap autos meant that nobody "had to drive a manual" anymore - and the US market went to next to nothing. We've pulled back from the brink, in a sense, but I don't believe it's impossible to happen again - particularly with manufacturers trying to convince the public at large(again) that their auto options are "sporty". If public sentiments were to return to manuals being "uncool", they'd dwindle again, and if people don't learn stick right off the bat, they'll be less likely to "get" why it's a thing later on. You see this periodically in magazines, even alleged enthusiast magazines, even spilling over to our own Jalopnik front page. "What is this, the stone age? Autos are better, shift faster, they're more economical. You people wanting manuals are unreasonable." It's almost like a coordinated campaign to remove any lingering "coolness" and quietly convert potential aficionados away, through the construction of an artifical echo chamber. "You kind of liked that manual way back when. But come on. Try the auto. It's better, really - you can even pick your own gear, maybe. You can't drive a manual every day." Quite frankly, I've seen it too many times for me not to think there are portions of society that literally believe manuals have to be stamped out, and it creeps me right the fuck out. In its worst cases, it's isolation, abuse, denigration, lure with promise of acceptance "if only this" - pure programming tactics.

The near disappearance of manuals in trucks should be enough to give anyone pause - a market which requires more skill in the use of a manual to obtain best results/best reliability and less of a "sporty" interest? BAM. No stick for you - even if you'd have liked that new F-250 to have a granny gear stick to snowplow with. You alone are too few, and Bob the Boat Owner and his ilk are many...

PardonMyFlemish16 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/28/2014 at 17:06

0

They tried to kill the manual in the E60 M5... it came back in the E60 and in the current one. The M5 sucks anyway. The Outback != all Subarus besides the BRZ/WRX. Cadillac, in its misguided quest to "compete with the Germans", will keep the stickshift around to maintain their "sport sedan credibility" unless they (as they should) abandon this whole sport sedan quest. Honda has stickshift in the Fit, CR-Z, Civic, and Accord. Barring Mazda, Ford and Chevy I think that's more models with sticks than any other mainstream manufacturer. Plus you aren't looking at all the new models we've got in the last few years. A3, 1/2 series, Fiesta, Veloster, Fit, etc. etc. There are plenty of affordable stickshift cars on the market, and it looks like there are more coming too (IDx, etc).

PardonMyFlemish16 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/28/2014 at 17:13

0

If the bulk of manual drivers are easily swayed by Jalopnik front page antics and other meaningless media tripe then we don't deserve stickshifts. If we are that easily moved by click bait blog entries then we weren't that committed to stickshifts in the first place.

Like I said I've driven and owned a lot of cars.... based on my experience I prefer stickshift, for now at least. Just as I prefer RWD and natural aspiration. I'm not really worried about what other people think or want or what the media/public at large is saying. There is an ample supply of new and more importantly USED stickshift cars for sale... plus cars are so robust these days I would not be surprised if some of the cars for sale today are still on the road 20-30 years from now. My Z has 175K miles on it now and it runs great. I get the feeling if I replace the engine(which is totally unnecessary now)/bushings and continue to do maintenance on it it will do another 200-300K no problem. So I don't see what people are freaking out about to be honest. If the demand is there and true, a dip in new manual production will be temporary.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > PardonMyFlemish16 04/28/2014 at 17:24

0

Manuals are kept alive not by the regular manual drivers per se, but by those who are in the margins. That's what I was getting at. I recognize you are not easily swayed. Neither am I, as such, but some people will be, and however many those few, there are many, many crazies and not-so-crazies who want them not to drive stick. Which isn't rational, but human history is made entirely of non-rational things producing results.

A lot of those who buy new buy as a status symbol. As such, that is a marginal region susceptible to group and peer pressures more than most. Do I think the manual will ever die for good? Probably not, but with fickle purchasing, we may have some *awful* dry spells. As such, there's a bit of "keeping the dream alive", though not for our benefit - for those others we impact. Direct evangelism, if you will - encouraging others to try, driving stick oneself - is best, but indirectness (A finger on the scales of "cool", if you will) is not to be ignored. We can hope that new manual production will dip only temporarily, but for those periods it may, it'll still suck.

PardonMyFlemish16 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/28/2014 at 17:31

0

What are you basing this on? How can you say with certainty the bulk of manual buyers are "fickle" and need to be convinced? What % of manual buyers fit that description and where are you getting that info? What are the means of indirect evangelism and what are the metrics of its effectiveness? I don't buy that at all.

In my totally anecdotal experience people who drive stickshift tend to be pretty loyal to the transmission these days, as stickshift is no longer the economical choice. The fickle stickshift drivers dropped off with the advent of the 4, 5, 6, 7 speed automatic transmissions and the continually decreasing gap between automatics and manuals. PEople buy stickshift these days because they enjoy driving stickshift, period... there's no convincing necessary; only maybe exposure to let people know there is an alternative to the ubiquitous auto. But unless you know something I don't I don't really see how it's possible to quantify all the effects of these issues.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > PardonMyFlemish16 04/28/2014 at 18:02

0

I made exactly zero of those claims. Neither that the *bulk* of manual buyers are fickle, nor (obviously) that such a bulk need to be convinced. What I stated was that buyers of new cars - particularly cars beyond one's "needs" - are susceptible to a large degree to what is fashionable. Fashion is inherently fickle. I shouldn't have to support either of those remarks - the first is well recognized by decades of trends and the second is tautological.

THEREFORE:

I infer from this that not all buyers of manuals *NEW* will be those who are veterans of the manual who always drive manual by choice, and there will be those who buy a manual at least partly because it is recognized as cool . Hell, take a look at Mini's sales numbers some time. The precise percentage of those people has no bearing on discussion unless inconsequentially (by definition: of no consequence) small - only that as a part of the whole, we ignore it at our own risk. The percentage is the scale *of* that risk.

I again infer - because it appears obvious - that it is in the interests of the community as a whole that manuals at the very least do not become *uncool*. Steady supply of manual cars depends on purchase of new manual cars, and a (presumed) not insignificant portion of those buyers need to be comfortable in that purchase for whatever reason. Used cars are yesterdays fashions - again, tautological - and thus the buyer of the used car is not the person whose interests the auto maker cares about. Inductive reasoning indicates that primarily "fashion"-informed purchases of used cars will be less than new.

Further, it is quite obvious that if "cool cars" are not required to have manual to be "cool", then those manuals offered will not be consistently in "cool" cars. Those which do not have a manual as part of their marketed identity (the Mustang, etc.) and even some that do will be susceptible to loss of a manual if it's not required *as a "cool" feature in its own right*. See Porsche models in which the selling point of race technology has to a degree usurped necessarily *fun to drive* qualities - because a race DCT (at least the numbers it makes possible) is more cool (apparently) than a simple stick.

Whenever manuals go through a phase of being uncool, you'd better believe the fair-weather-friends will dry up, and at that point, you see the availability take another hit. It is what it is. It is in our interest to be rabid manualphiles and for manuals to stay cool, "for the future". Fashion is stupid - obviously. It doesn't mean it's meaningless, and it *is* informed by public consciousness at large.

PardonMyFlemish16 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/28/2014 at 19:13

0

The biggest selling cars are, aside from pickup trucks, anything but "cool" and this has been the case for decades. So "cool" does not sell cars. Practical, high value, inconspicuous, easy to drive sells.

Manual transmissions have not gone through phases of popularity either. They were popular for a long time without interruption because they were the more economical choice. Once that changed people immediately stopped buying them. "Fashionable" car purchases- i.e., the goofy retro phase of the late 90s with the Beetle, PT Cruiser, Thunderbird, etc.- are pretty much inconsequential and nothing for manufacturers or enthusiasts to strategize around.

The problem with car trends is that trends move so quickly these days that by the time a car trend hits the market, it's out of fashion within a year or so out of a 4-6 year model cycle. So looking to hook the survival of manual transition on "trends" is a fool's errand.

I don't really see anything that can be actively done to increase manual transmission takeup in the market. It's pretty much subject to the whims of the market, which do to a degree respond to and drive demand but not by a huge margin. I.e. if Toyota came out with a manual Avalon or Highlander nobody would buy them. However, thanks to the internet, video games and other media I think stickshift awareness is pretty high. So I'm not really worried. When manual stalwarts like the base 911s and Mustangs go all auto then I will worry, but as I showed before we are a long ways away from that.