What is a Modern Muscle Car? The time I drove a Camaro!

"Jonathon Klein" (jonathon-klein) 04/28/2014 at 11:55 • Filed to: The Camaro does really good burnouts!

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Now, I usually don't go for new American cars. They are usually miles behind their European, Japanese, and even Korean counterparts. They're slow, they lumber along, with no real handling to speak of. Usually, they're just not good cars. Lately, I must admit that they have been getting better and better, still not Mercedes or Toyota quality, but closer to them then they have been in decades. A few weeks ago, MotorTrend did a video on the new Chevy Z/28 Camaro where they propped it up against Godzilla-the mighty Nissan GTR. The amazingly brilliant technical exercise that is the GTR has lapped the Nurburgring in 7:24. This by any standard is blisteringly fast, and not to mention, it goes around corners like a squirrel on acid.

Now many of the commenters, people that have never gotten the chance to driver either of these cars immediately went into fight mode with MotorTrend. How could they compare an American Muscle car, to a world class sports car? How could they compare a Camaro to Godzilla? Like many of those commenters, I had never driven either of the cars myself, and it's entirely possible, that I will never even see the Z/28 in person. But I, as the usual internet commenter, with my hate and vitriol, none of which was based on fact, had my own opinion on the car, and my dislike of new American cars went deep. I still love old muscle cars, but with this new found forum, you nice people, I figured if I am truly going to try and make a go of this writing thing, I should base my opinions on fact rather than fiction.

Luckily, I have good friends and family. Some of these individuals have nice cars, and some let me drive them! However, in this case, my friend Mike has a 2010 SS Camaro, and I talked/conned him into the idea about doing an article on it and he agreed!

I met him at his house while he was washing the car. It had been sitting in his garage for the last few months because of the frozen hellscape that was Chicago this winter, and indeed every winter. His little girl was helping him wash it in her raincoat, and I started snapping a few pictures. The day we went was beautiful, nice and sunny, no humidity, crisp I would say. After he finished washing it, and blow drying it with a leaf blower, we said goodbye to the wives and hit the road. He drove it first so I could get a sense of the car, feel how it handled, how it rode, and the power delivery. Also probably because he was nervous about letting me, a quasi auto journalist have the keys to his baby. But after a few minutes, and a quick photo shoot in one of my favorite locations, I asked if I could get behind the wheel. He agreed and I was happy and ready to go.

The car really isn't setup for people of my height. I'm 6'4" and even with the seat in the lowest position, I needed to tilt the seat back more than I like to when driving. I had to lean my body a bit too, even with the seat at the lowrider angle I was already at! The steering wheel feels like a retro steering wheel. It kinda comes out at you, rather than just a static wheel that you could put a level on. It is an interesting feel, you look out in front of you and see modern gauges, a modern dash, but you can sense the heritage, the retroness that the designers of the car were going for. Sitting in the car now, I get a better sense of the car, and can see the appeal. Yes the interior is a bit bland, and the dash in front of the passenger looks pretty cheap, but everything is laid out correctly, everything has its function. This car wasn't made to compete with the foreign markets. It wasn't made to compete with Mercedes, or BMW, or anyone really. It has one purpose and one purpose alone. Blasting down the streets in a cloud of smoke and noise that will scare women and children!

As you look down through the dash, you notice a gauge cluster right under the central head unit. It has meters galore, and that tells you that you're not in a normal car. The clutch is firm to say the least, I'm not afraid to admit I killed it the first time. I'm so used to my FR-S's clutch which is a feather, that this 6 speed mated to that LS took me a bit off guard. After getting used to the car for a bit I was feeling way more comfortable, and I could tell that my friend was also becoming more comfortable with me driving. So at this point, as every one of you would do, I inquired about the traction control. To my amazement, he told me that he had never taken it off! I was flabbergasted! How could you own a muscle car and never do a burnout? That's like a rite of passage?

At this point I informed him, that I would get him to do a burnout, and he agreed maybe he would do one, so I asked if I could do one? He said sure, but really with a half-sure smile. I got us to a spot that is known for burnouts and asked him again, just to make sure that it was ok with him? He reassured me that it was fine so I went for it. What came next can only be described as Beijing smog levels of smoke. Since the tires had never really done a burnout, the top layer was pretty much still intact, so when I dropped the clutch and hit the gas, the tires turned into a super dense smoke that covered a good portion of the block.

After that he let me do a few more burnouts just because, and we headed back home. However, I really wanted to grab a shot of the car doing a burnout for you all. So I asked him for one more favor, for him to do the burnout while I snapped a picture. He agreed again, and headed back to the spot. I set it up first to get some great lines on the street, and then handed back the keys.

( I got the picture .)

So my work here was done, we headed back, hung out for a while, then headed home, thanking him once again for letting me play with his car. But what about my stigma that I had about American cars, what about my opinions, were they warranted? I'll say this, they were partially warranted. They do lumber along, they aren't the greatest of interiors, and you can tell exactly where they were made. However, this is a car that's not pretending to be something else. It's not trying to compete on those higher levels. This is a modern muscle car. It does well what muscle cars of a few decades ago did well. Turn rubber into smoke and frowns into smiles. The modern LS engine is a symphony of brilliance.

That massive V8 has more character in it than pretty much the entire range of new BMWs. I love it, I would love to drop it in my car. That Camaro taught me a lesson, something I really should have figured out when I drove the Tesla, that cars don't all have to do the same things equally to be good, the nuances of each car are the things that make them special, it's what gives the car a soul, and this car definitely has a soul, one bred to make you have the biggest grin as you are turning your tires to ash.

You can find me here on !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

And also check out our new blog !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! !

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For Sweden > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 11:59

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Now I usually don't go for new American cars. They are usually miles behind their European, Japanese, and even Korean counterparts. They're slow, they lumber along, and with no real handling to speak of. Usually, they're just not good cars.

I didn't realize it was the year 1985.

Sn210 > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 11:59

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that's my favorite color, they didn't make too many of them in it

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 12:00

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I've got a friend with the V6 auto. I like it, but for it to be as heavy as it is, it needs to reward with brute impulse of shifts and tone of engine penetrating the cabin instead of bouncing off. It... doesn't. I'm also not a fan of the trans feel at all.

camaroboy68ss > Sn210 04/28/2014 at 12:05

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yeah aqua blue metallic, very rare and hard to find a ss car with a stick. I've been looking for one for months to trade my 98 Camaro SS in but no luck yet. I love the color because its close to the Lemans Blue on my 68 Camaro

BeaterGT > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 12:07

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Finally an article not about Fiesta/Focus STs. Awesome color too. Glad you enjoyed it!

Jayhawk Jake > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/28/2014 at 12:09

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The V6 auto Camaro isn't made for that, it's made to be a cool looking car to tempt fathers of teenage girls away from V6 Mustangs

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Jayhawk Jake 04/28/2014 at 12:10

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HA!

In its defense, it makes a quite reasonable commuter, which is what my friend bought it for.

Sn210 > Sn210 04/28/2014 at 12:11

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according to camaro5.com, production numbers for Aqua Blue Metallic were:

LS = 284
LT = 1592
SS = 2027
total = 3903

Total sales according to Wikipedia

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RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > For Sweden 04/28/2014 at 12:12

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It's always 1985 on the internet. Think about it - it's not just true for cars, it's true for *everything*.

crowmolly > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/28/2014 at 12:16

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Yup.

"American cars have sucked up until maybe 2011 or so."

followed by

"HOLY SHIT I'D LOVE A GRAND NATIONAL"

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > crowmolly 04/28/2014 at 12:18

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But seriously - think about how the 80s are the motherlode of memes, deliberate bad taste, hair metal, exuberant lists of things, TV show/movie references, etc etc. It is always the 80s on the internet. Always.

Jonathon Klein > For Sweden 04/28/2014 at 12:24

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They usually are, I've driven a Durango, a Chevy Malibu, a Pontiac G6, Mustang GT and a few other new American cars, and they still lumber along and the interiors are shit. This one did that but the engine totally made up for it!

offroadkarter > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 12:27

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Okay,

First off: Their is no way, in hell, you are going to compare a 2010 SS as the basis of what its like to drive every 5th gen camaro including the Z/28. Obviously the Z/28 isn't a lumbering car if it can take down the GT-R on the ring.

Secondly: How dare you try to use the 5th gen camaro as the basis of what all American cars must be! Just because GM has a tendency to build cars that burst into flames or crash into trees doesn't mean every American car is built that shitty. Honestly no interior pisses me off to be in more than a toyota interior, that is not a quality product no matter how hard Consumer Reports tries to say it is. I'd rather sit in a GM interior than a Toyota interior any day of the year.

BLARGH!

offroadkarter > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 12:28

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try driving something that didn't sell new for 20ish grand. a durango? a malibu? Were these even models from 2010+?

Jonathon Klein > offroadkarter 04/28/2014 at 12:32

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I'm not comparing it, I had a general sense of American cars, I know that the Z/28 isn't going to be like the SS at all. This is more trying to get Chevy let me try the Z/28 out, it's not going to happen, but it would be fun!

Also a lot of cars interiors are terrible. But the vast majority of American interiors are not great. Have you been in the new SS, or any Cadillac, all that stupid Piano Black shit, but the SS's interior is fine for what it is, a muscle car.

offroadkarter > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 12:37

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I have been in all 3 of the pony cars and yeah the 5th gen is just awful. I'm not really offended by the piano black plastic and the Koreans are doing that stuff to. I'm sure the Japanese have that some where also. If you want to take a stab at anything in the 5th gen camaro interior, how about the GIANT pieces of shiny plastic on the door panels? The hell is up with that?

The more important question is, Have YOU driven a ford lately?

KSEGGFTW > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 12:47

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I find it amusing when Camaro fanboys end up spelling it Camero.

Dream Theater of the Absurd > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 12:51

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I have never driven the current (or, for that matter, any) Camaro, but I did sit in one once at an auto show. For as big as it is on the outside, it sure felt cramped when sitting in it. And I am only 5'8".

Ingo-Castilho > For Sweden 04/28/2014 at 12:51

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The "even Korean "part made me lol.

quirt > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 12:52

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Did I read that right? American cars are behind they're Korean counterparts? Hahahah.

Jacques L' Autre > For Sweden 04/28/2014 at 12:53

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I think he meant, "Kilometers behind..."

shieldsdb > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 12:54

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I'm not sure you actually said anything in this article.

Of course the interior is sub par. Nobody buys it for the interior.

macanamera > offroadkarter 04/28/2014 at 12:55

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Dude, please get your information straight.

Obviously the Z/28 isn't a lumbering car if it can take down the GT-R on the ring.

RustySurfing07 > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 12:56

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Really?

random001 > For Sweden 04/28/2014 at 12:56

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Yeah, he can pretty much suck an egg for that comment. This car would like to have a word with him in a dark alley...

DetroitMuscle > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:01

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Glad you woke up and found out what fun horsepower can be.

offroadkarter > macanamera 04/28/2014 at 13:01

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jalopnik told me the Z/28 was a "GT-R" killer, were they wrong?

Bullitt417 > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:03

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I liked your review. I liked the honesty and your ability to take a step back and look at the whole picture. And while I may be biased with my love for muscle cars, I truly believe you touched upon the most important aspect of these cars; people buy these cars because these are the cars they want.

There is no ulterior motive beyond want for these cars. People love comparing numbers, and while these cars can play the number game, its not their point. I didn't buy my Mustang because it posts similar numbers to an M3... I bought it because I wanted a Mustang. Furthermore, short of just giving me the keys, there was nothing the Chevy dealer could do to get me in a Camaro. These cars are about experience and they dish it out in spades.

Good job on the article again.

iNvDrZiM > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:03

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What is a Modern Muscle Car?

Australian.

Jayhawk Jake > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/28/2014 at 13:03

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Oh, I like it a lot, I'm just telling it like it is.

ssm-one > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:04

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I have driven both Camaro's and GT-R's and don't like either...

I find the Camaro's interior to be downright offensive and its outward vision close to non-existent, especially out the rear. Build quality is miles ahead of what you'd expect from GM though, I'll give it that. All of the models I've experienced (from the V6 base to the ZL1) have great powerplants and a not terrible balance of handling/ride quality considering what it is, but the sheer bulk of the car (the poor outward visibility compounds the bulky feeling exponentially) takes away far too much from the driving experience for me to truly enjoy the car. And every time I look at the dashboard design and layout I just nod my head in shame for those that consider it attractive. I know it's comparing apples to oranges, but if I wanted a pony car and a seat of the pants driving experience, I'd have a 5.0LX fox-body in my driveway before one of these. And while the ZL1 is an animal, for that money I'd buy a lightly used C6 Z-06.

As for the GT-R, I'm sure it is a more than capable machine on the track, but in everyday driving on everyday roads, it is horrendous. It is as solid as any car has the right to be, but that means cookie crumbs being driven over will transmit through the chassis and into your hands and seat of your pants. It is a terribly jarring ride. Driving the GT-R through tighter city streets, parking lots and drive through's was more awkward than your first time throwing finger darts. It jerked and lurched and had so much going on in its brain it didn't seem to know what it wanted to do, as if it was tripping on LSD. It was enormously powerful and I could only imagine what kind of a dream it would be on a track, but for the day-to-day driving I had exposed it to, it was an unpleasant experience.

But don't listen to me, I'm getting old and dream of S-Class Benzes and Bentley Mulsannes. Lol.

feedback > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:07

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Kinda lost me right here: "still not ... Toyota quality." Really? Have you driven a Camry lately? Abysmal.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:07

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I really prefer the steering wheel in the older models to that in the new cars. It's unique while the new one looks like the wheel in a Malibu.

macanamera > offroadkarter 04/28/2014 at 13:07

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Yeah, they were.

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...and, just for shits and giggles, here is the most recent "track" version of the GTR, which you could argue is the most viable comparison to the track-day-special Z28 (and it's on run-flats):

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themarcus > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:08

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I am afraid your perception of American cars is a decade behind at least. Unfortunately perception often lags reality which is why people continues to buy American cars in the 80's. Today's best from the big three rival the quality of most things produced today. The fit, finish and overall quality of the best from Ford, GM and Chrysler really is very good. Toyota has not made consistently good cars since they begin heavily pursuing the rental car market. Mercedes and BMW have had some nagging quality problems which are often difficult to correct. Challenges with high-pressure fuel pumps and computer bugs to name a couple.

Jayhawk Jake > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:08

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So you've driven a single digit number of American cars and assume they are all the same?

The comment of them lumbering along is pretty silly if you've only driven an SUV, a couple of midsize sedans, and a muscle car.

I don't really care that you clearly have bias against american cars, but if you're trying to write a quality article opening it up with a blanket statement that american cars are shit isn't the way to do it.

Kate's Dirty Sister > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:09

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SHIT

How come I didn't think about this before.

offroadkarter > macanamera 04/28/2014 at 13:09

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oh mein gott

well I'm glad to see the nissan supercomputer hasn't been taken down by a 'Murican built cousin fucker of a car.

Jayhawk Jake > Sn210 04/28/2014 at 13:10

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They only made that color for a year. I seriously don't know why, it's by far the best color on the 5th gen Camaro

jaysantos > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:11

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What is a modern muscle car? Simp: douchemobile.

macanamera > offroadkarter 04/28/2014 at 13:12

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Ya. The Z28 has been getting a lot of press recently (flowtie=please blow my brains out), but realistically, its no GT-R killer.

scleco > ssm-one 04/28/2014 at 13:14

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The older I get the more comfort, refinement, and over all build quality matter to me too...Sigh. The days when a big honking motor and RWD were the only things I cared about are long gone.

scleco > iNvDrZiM 04/28/2014 at 13:16

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The SS with a 6 speed and magnetic ride control should be a pretty good car too.

sfltrack0000 > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:16

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Shitty interior, can anyone say Subaru wrx?

Chris > macanamera 04/28/2014 at 13:19

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The Z28 time was done in wet conditions! See above.

472CID > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:19

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Ugh, those first couple sentences. Even Jeremy Clarkson isn't that biased nowadays.

ILLec > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:21

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What area of IL was this? Some of the backgrounds look familiar. Northwest burbs of Chicago?

macanamera > Chris 04/28/2014 at 13:22

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Come on, you are grasping for straws. Please notice that never did Chevy ever say it was a GT-R killer. There was a single test at Barber in which the Z28 had a marginally faster lap time. I don't need to tell you that Barber is not the Nordschleife.

ssm-one > scleco 04/28/2014 at 13:25

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I know.... I find myself scrolling right past the write-up on the lastest and greatest zillion-horsepower, bionic-built supercar to read about somebody's miled-out old Volvo wagon..

Cars have become spaceships and very few are doing it well or tastefully..

SirRaoulDuke > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:29

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You did a couple burnouts and think you drove a car?

55_mercury > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:30

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Let me give you my perspective as a lifelong Toyota owner who bought a Chevrolet Volt 3 weeks ago: The interiors, fit and finish, and overall quality are far and beyond anything Toyota and frankly Honda, Nissan, or VW makes today. If you were to ask me say- 5-10 years ago what I thought I would probably be nodding my head in full agreement with you. In fact, of the Volt owners I've met, a number of them have mentioned they owned either BMWs or Mercedes prior and the fit and finish on the Volt is better by far.

Now, that's just one car amongst many and no way tied to the cars in the article. Something that should be considered when comparing say- a Camaro to something that might come from other competitors, well if you compare the stock performance of either a BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, or Nissan equivalent then you would only really be able to compare it to cars from those competitors that cost A LOT more than the Camaro, simply because the only cars that come close in raw speed from those guys are going to be at the upper end of their ranges, and hence comparing them as such is not an apples to apples comparison. The lineage of American pony cars has always come from the same very successful concept of selling a sports car to the average person and give them a good bank for their buck. That was the emphasis of the Mustang and why it sold so well: prior to that if you were some working class Joe there were no sports car options for you. If anything, the fact that these low cost muscle cars in many cases can keep up and do quite well compared to cars costing several times more is remarkable. Perhaps in that light GM and Ford deserve some credit for not only drastically improving the product, but keeping it accessible to the masses.

fritzo > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:32

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I agree- the Camaro COULD be an epic car, but its roof line and "pillbox" windshield really work against it. I'm also 6'4", and driving one put a permanent crick in my neck from having to slouch down. For the money of an SS though, there are a lot better choices out there.

Bytemite > offroadkarter 04/28/2014 at 13:35

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Just lay off already. Just because Jalopnik loves hating on Toyota does not mean their products aren't of good quality. What the OP says is true anyway, GM and Chrysler still does not understand what build quality and dead weight is. They think a 4,000 lb car will handle and not lumber along? Please.

shiftat9000 > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:36

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When S*** hit the fan around 2008, the big 3 all but admitted they were building sub par cars.

Ford just picked up Mulally and it really felt like Ford turned a page. They were doing something completely different. A few good examples are the Explorer redesign, the Focus redesign, the Escape. Their engine lineup jumped in economy and power output.

GM and Chrysler feels like the same people doing the same job, just trying a bit harder.

I would like to see a real change in GM culture. And for the love of god, get rid of that ugly dirty orange bowtie. Let it go, Chevy, let. it. go.

...or make it small and hardly noticeable.

I have presented only personal observations and no claim to facts.

Shiftright > For Sweden 04/28/2014 at 13:37

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Yup. As a former despiser of American crap can, I now say "outdated much?"

Bytemite > 55_mercury 04/28/2014 at 13:38

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If you think straight line acceleration = speed. Then yeah

GBurke6603 > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:39

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He drove it first so I could get a sense of the car, feel how it handled, how it road, and the power delivery.

Rode. Does Jalpo need an editor?

offroadkarter > Bytemite 04/28/2014 at 13:40

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You know the E39 M5, the "bench mark" of sports sedans, has a curb weight of 4026lbs right? I never heard anyone accuse that car of lumbering

Chrysler doesn't build its LX cars to be road racing corner carvers, they build them to be cars you can actually drive comfortably every day and smoke the tires off of. I've never really heard anyone say the CTS-V handles like crap either.

Shiftright > offroadkarter 04/28/2014 at 13:40

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Pretty redneckin' close though, impressively so because the 'Merican is RWD and don't have half of them fancy computers n' shit that the Datsun has.

Much respect for both.

Biased Plies > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:41

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Prepare yourself, this is going to be a long comment. You seem to have writing ambitions and I have a lot to critique about said writing:

Now [,] I usually don't go for new American cars.

this missing comma mistake happens a few times in this post

They're slow, they lumber along, and with no real handling to speak of.

lose the "and"

A few weeks ago, MotorTrend did a video on the new Chevy Z/28 Camaro, and propped it up against the mighty Nissan GTR, a car nicknamed Godzilla.

Too many sentence fragments and commas. Try this: A few weeks ago, MotorTrend did a video on the new Chevy Z/28 Camaro where they propped it up against Godzilla - the mighty Nissan GTR.

The amazingly brilliant technical exercise that is the GTR has lapped the Nurburgring in 7:24. This by any standard is blisteringly fast, and not to mention, it goes around corners like a squirrel on acid.

Too much fluff/trying too hard to jazz up your writing, especially the last bit. These two sentences could have been left off that paragraph entirely.

Like many of those commenters, I had never driven either of the cars myself, and it's entirely possible [,] that I will never even see the Z/28 in person.

lose the comma. Unnecessary pause in the sentence

But I, as the usual internet commenter, with my hate and vitriol, none of which was based on fact, it wasn't based on anything but pure conjecture.

What? This sentence makes literally no sense.

Luckily, I have good friends and family. Some of these individuals have nice cars, and some let me drive them! I'm hoping to drive one of my dreams cars this summer, hopefully more on that later! However, in this case, my friend Mike has a 2010 SS Camaro…

extraneous and unnecessary

I talked/ con'd him into the idea about doing an article on it and he agreed!

conned That is not a valid contraction.

feel how it handled, how it road …

rode

even with the seat at the Lowrider angle I was already at !

don't capitalize lowrider, the exclamation point is unnecessary too.

It wasn't made to compete with Mercedes, or BMW, or anyone really. It has one purpose and one purpose alone. Blasting down the streets in a cloud of smoke and noise that will scare women and children!

You're leading into the second sentence without connecting them. Connect these sentences with a - or :.

…, and that , tells you that you're not in a normal car.

either lose the comma or put a second "that" after the comma to make the exclamation

That's like a rite of passage?

"Isn't that like a right of passage?"

So at this point I informed him ,

I really don't like starting a sentence with "so". It's fine and IMO better to just start with "At this point…" Also, lose that comma.

So I asked if I could do one ?

Again, "so" and the question mark is wrong too.

…just to make sure that it was ok with him ?

Question mark?

Beijing Smog

don't capitalize smog

Turn rubber into smoke , and frowns into smiles.

comma, lose it

than pretty much the entire range of new BMW's.

BMWs, dammit

That Camaro taught me a lesson, something I really should have figured out when I drove the Tesla. That cars don't all have to do the same things equally to be good…

connect the sentences again. You're leading into it without connection

I'm no writer but I do know when I'm reading something that's well written. When something is well written it makes it more enjoyable to read and this is just not the case with your articles thus far. I hope you're not too insulted by my remarks and can improve your writing from this, I'm only trying to provide constructive feedback.

All that said, pretty cool that your friend let you drive his Camaro. Neat experience.

golfball > themarcus 04/28/2014 at 13:41

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I think he's talking about fit and finish. That's different from reliability. It's the sound when you close the door, how materials inside feel, etc. Many, but not all, 2014 American cars still have a certain cheapness about them even if they are fairly reliable.

offroadkarter > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/28/2014 at 13:42

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hey works fine for me, if its 1985 that means my 745i is brand new in the internet world

Shannador > For Sweden 04/28/2014 at 13:43

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"still not Mercedes or Toyota quality" Um, don't I recall Mercedes doing rather terrible in recent quality studies? And aren't Toyota recalling hundreds of thousands of cars every other week? This really is the 80s again.

Crest > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:46

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Wow someone who hates American cars trying to compare American cars to the crap of an FRS he drives; impressed but so as not to loose credibility with the band of American car haters he settles for cheap interior. Excuse me but can you compare a Camaro interior to that of the FRS you drive? It's s unfortunate when people try to bullshit themselves. American cars are competing with cars on higher levels and winning. People are not blind so take your self righteous justification and shove it somewhere.

55_mercury > Bytemite 04/28/2014 at 13:47

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I didn't say Toyota was a bad quality product. I still own a tacoma and my family has mostly Toyotas themselves. And I disagree with you that GM doesn't understand build quality. If they didn't then they wouldn't be ranked fairly high on the list of most recent quality surveys in terms of not only initial fit and finish, but overall long term reliability. Like I said- I've owned Toyotas for years and my mother in law owns a VW. If you want to do a real test, try looking at the differences in the gaps between the body panels on GM versus Toyota and VW, or frankly most any other automaker. At this point GM actually has about the most precise body panel fit of any other make.

GreatPower > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:48

1

Generally speaking, I appreciate this review. It's an honest, refreshing perspective on a rather ubiquitous and over-reviewed vehicle.

That being said, I would have preferred a bit more depth on the car itself. Also, the backstory of how the car was acquired for the test was rather long and more personal than the length warranted. It could have been summed up rather quickly with "Neighbor had Camaro, I asked ____, he said ____ and away we went".

As for what I mean by depth. How did the steering feel? Were the pedals nicely placed? How was fit and finish specifically? What areas were strong/weak? Did you appreciate those rectangle gauges? Did it lean more or less in a turn than other cars? Did you feel like visibility was good? Did you feel in control, or feel like the car was vague/dangerous? How were the brakes? Was pedal feel wobbly or well-defined and mechanical? You have an FR-S? What other elements of the car did you compare to the FR-S than the clutch? It's not a cardinal sin to give us some context for more opinions even if it is a vastly different car to compare to.

Xedicon > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:48

2

With maybe the exception of a very new Citidel trim Durango, that's hardly a good or definitive list of cars to judge American interiors. The real failure is the inclusion of a bottom rung car from a brand that died in 2010 (the G6). Also a brand based in Eurpoe doesn't automatically promise a great interior. Case in point - new Jetta's are crap on the inside, and slightly older ones often had problems with the headliner drooping - but wait it's German! It must be good because Europe! Right?

Howie > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:53

2

Mustang GT lumbering and slow? An older Mustang GT (automatic 05-10) perhaps? I or maybe even a regular GT or Brembo car in the current model, certainly not the Track Pack car.

BigHarv > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:53

12

Welcome to the front page! First impression? You sound like an idiot.

Seriously, I know Clarkson and company still get away with opening paragraphs like yours, but they manage to convey a sense of humour while expressing such hilariously cliche ignorance, and you just sound like that one uncle who only stopped using nakedly racist epithets last year after he and your aunt were asked to leave Disney World. Even Top Gear doesn't get away with those these days!

Good on you for pushing your horizons, writing a reasonably interesting review of a car, and making a muscle/pony car owner have some fun-that was awesome. It should probably be the focus and title of the piece, honestly. But hey, you made the front page-sweet! Unfortunately that means lot of folks (jerks) who are used to consuming a huge range of automotive journalism are now going to compare that to your writing, and that's going to be rocky.

Oh, and a big note-when you write 'You can tell where it was put together', you sound like you don't actually know and that you certainly don't know where a lot of 'foreign' cars are assembled. The Camaro? Oshawa, Ontario, Canada. Probably not the joke you were looking to make. And with the huge number of US, Canadian, and Mexican car plants producing the foreign cars whose quality and interiors you so admire, your point is lost even more. Google can help you with this.

Voodoo-u > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 13:58

3

Wow. "Stupid piano black shit." You do know that Audi has been plastering that shit into cars for YEARS right? I first saw it on a 2001 Audi S4 and thought it was cool, and still do. Cadillac does it quite well now.

In fact, Cadillac has been out-doing Germany for years now. Audi and BMW make some of the most boring and overpriced vehicles imaginable now. I, personally, would happily take a new Impala over any German sedan. The 911 now gets its ass handed to it at the track by a lowly Corvette, which costs less than some 911 options alone do. The Focus and Fiesta ST's are better GTIs for the same/less money.

I love my Mustang more than any Euro car I've ever owned before. Just hearing that big V8 rumble every morning is my caffeine. It gets more looks, smiles, and compliments than any car I've ever owned.

Yes, a GT-R is still faster around the Nurburgring. It also costs six figures, while a Z/28 does not. And the Z/28 offers something far more important: row your own gears. You'll have me driving an automatic when you cut off my legs. Maybe.

We all have our favorites. I get that. I think electric cars are fucking stupid and a waste of money, but I can't argue the fact a boring $80k golf cart from Tesla is neck and neck with a Corvette on the drag strip. I think the Nissan GT-R is the most yawn-inspiring way to spend $120k on a supercar. But you gotta expand the horizons and respect the machines. True car guys may not love everything, but they can always appreciate something about another car.

Es DOt > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 14:06

0

Thanks, for this!

G8GT364 > offroadkarter 04/28/2014 at 14:08

0

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coup…

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Sixpackdan > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 14:09

0

Feel free to get your attitude out of the 80s

HiMyNameIsJayAgain > RustySurfing07 04/28/2014 at 14:12

3

That's a fairly common practice, is it not?

RustySurfing07 > HiMyNameIsJayAgain 04/28/2014 at 14:16

0

Is it? lol First time in my life i've ever seen this.

H2H > Kate's Dirty Sister 04/28/2014 at 14:24

1

My exact thoughts after reading this article. We've been missing out. No more stupid damp towels.

Meatcoma > offroadkarter 04/28/2014 at 14:26

0

Mine has no shiny plastic on the door panels =) It's cloth.

01viper4me > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 14:26

2

You think the new 2014 Durango's interior is shit and that it lumbers along? Show me another 7 passenger SUV that can Tow 7,000 pounds, that can get to 60mph under 7 seconds, is AWD, and can get 24mpg on the highway. The interior is VERY nicely appointed.

dean_acheson > For Sweden 04/28/2014 at 14:29

0

Amen.

Layla Brooksmotorproducts > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 14:30

1

They haven't made the Pontiac G6 since 2009

Kate's Dirty Sister > H2H 04/28/2014 at 14:33

0

I suddenly feel violated by the chamois industry, they used me for so long.

This new technique seems to be full of promises.

Chappy > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 14:43

0

Amen, brother. I've been defending the Camaro since it came out from those who don't understand what this car is really about.

Picarso > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 14:45

0

" I, as the usual internet commenter, with my hate and vitriol, none of which was based on fact, it wasn't based on anything but pure conjecture." The smartest thing I have heard any pseudo "car journalist" say in a while.

If you can get your hands on a Camaro with a the 1LE package or even a '12-14 the suspension has notable improvements over the 2010 when it comes to steering feel. I wouldn't call it flickable. Chuckable maybe. The Camaro's girth and poor visibility was much less problem for me though when I could tell where the front tire was which, I could in the revised Camaro. Much better steering feel. I have driven the 2010 and 12 in anger and I enjoyed the changes in the '12.

While I have/had mostly european cars (M3, 911, Boxster M Coupe…etc) and I love autocross and track days, I really enjoy hulking a big powerful car around as well. Something about all that hurtling mass I like. It's fun, and fun is what I look for in a car. That's why I have an old scrappy '68 Firebird as well. It is about a sophisticated as a tractor, handles terrible, has gobs of power, is dangerous as hell but makes me smile more than my current 911 C4S when I drive it around town. I can't drive the 911 near it's limit on a public road and I find that frustrating. It's all about image though right……

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Biased Plies 04/28/2014 at 14:45

1

" That's like a rite of passage? "Isn't that like a right of passage?"

I agree with everything you said except for rite vs right.

In this context, " rite of passage" is correct. "right of passage" is incorrect... unless you're talking about a passage like a 'right of way' - as you would when discussing a driving situation.

But that wasn't the case in this instance.

Robert. > KSEGGFTW 04/28/2014 at 14:45

1

I'm a fanboy, and it really bugs the hell out of me when others spell Camaro with an "e".

wiffleballtony > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 14:48

1

Whoa whoa whoa. The Mustang GT lumbers along? What are you talking about?

GTI MkVII > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 14:51

1

Glad I'm not the only one that does this. My neighbors think I'm crazy.

Gothmog3VZ - Twin AW11's > offroadkarter 04/28/2014 at 14:52

0

As an MR2 owner, I'm offended by your statement over interior preferences :<

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > BigHarv 04/28/2014 at 14:55

4

"Welcome to the front page! First impression? You sound like an idiot."

LOL... that statement made me think of this:

gla2yyz > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 14:56

10

"Now I usually don't go for new American cars. They are usually miles behind their European, Japanese, and even Korean counterparts....

"They're slow...

"...they lumber along,...

...and with no real handling to speak of."

Was this article meant for Huffpost? Because that quote doesn't pass the sniff test on Jalopnik.

Soloburrito > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/28/2014 at 14:56

1

Not sure if this is a picture of a Camaro or Malibu. Good point!

BigHarv > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 04/28/2014 at 15:01

0

Hmmm. Still came out crueler than necessary. Don't want to discourage folks, but I think I certainly came off that way.

OtizzyStarBai > offroadkarter 04/28/2014 at 15:06

0

at least I agree with you on the fallacy that is 'Toyota Quality" these days.

JoeMechanical > Jayhawk Jake 04/28/2014 at 15:10

1

True, true! Except I see a lot more teenage guys in V6 Camaros, and a lot more teenage girls in V6, convertible Mustangs.

taskersrebelyell > Jonathon Klein 04/28/2014 at 15:15

1

Go back to your Prius and leave the car reviews to someone who actually likes cars.

Biased Plies > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 04/28/2014 at 15:17

0

Damn, made a mistake in a corrections post. The irony, hahah.

Habit got the best of me there. I actually looked it up to make sure rite was right and then screwed it up when I typed it up. :)

William Byrd > For Sweden 04/28/2014 at 15:18

0

#COTD

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > BigHarv 04/28/2014 at 15:20

1

Don't worry... I'm sure he will only be crying in his Cheerios for a week or two... or maybe more... as he feels his aspirations dying inside. But after that, he'll have a comfortable numbness as he settles into his routine as a caretaker... until one day...

JoeMechanical > BigHarv 04/28/2014 at 15:21

0

Come on man. I know it's the internet, but no need to be mean to the guy. I quite liked his write up, aside from the 90's "American cars are crap" cliche. Sure, there are a couple things that could be improved (writing wise), but overall, it is a pretty entertaining piece. You may not like his style of writing, but there are tons of journalists with styles like this.

JoeMechanical > golfball 04/28/2014 at 15:22

2

Even that's not true. Get your head out of your Golf.