"ssm-one" (ssm-one)
04/28/2014 at 10:10 • Filed to: None
2
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"ssm-one" (ssm-one)
04/28/2014 at 10:10 • Filed to: None | 2
| 23 |
I have always been perplexed at why with all of the mandated safety equipment in cars for the past fifty-odd years, fire extinguishers have yet to make the list...
My cars have always been equipped with fire extinguishers as I consider it mandatory, however I have always had to equip my vehicles with one on my own accord, in my own time and with my own money. These aren't performance cars, and I'm not talking about equipping them for track days. These are daily drivers that are used to commute to work and run errands etc...
In fact, it is mandatory that I have smoke detectors in my home - the fire department can actually fine you for not being so equipped around here - but there is nothing as such for fire extinguishers in the home. So I am required to have the smoke detector to make me aware of a fire (or pizza in the oven) in my home, which is a good thing because who wants to die, however I am not required to have the tools to deal with said fire, so might as well get some marshmallows to roast over all of my burning shit...
Any public building I have ever entered has been equipped with extinguishers. Public transport and commercial vehicles seem to be too. To me, fire extinguishers are such a blatantly obvious requirement for anything with fuel and spark, that it twists my melon they aren't required safety equipment for motor vehicles.
The above photo was a car fire I came across a few weeks ago. Nobody was in the vehicle and the fire had grown to the point that I wasn't about to be a hero (besides, it was a Pacifica), but had there been an extinguisher on-board that vehicle may have stood a chance. More importantly, if it was an accident in which someone was stuck inside a burning wreck, it could have saved someones life.
So, do you equip your home/car with a fire extinguisher? Do you think they should be included as standard equipment on cars?
offroadkarter
> ssm-one
04/28/2014 at 10:18 |
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It would make sense. My BMW has one but as its from 1985 I know damn well its nothing more than a conversation piece. It was actually a factory option.
I really should put small ones in my other cars .
FJ80WaitinForaLSV8
> ssm-one
04/28/2014 at 10:20 |
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I absolutely carry one in all my cars. Such a small investment that it 100% makes seen. I've seen enough cars burning at the side of the road to know its worth. I do not believe they should be standard equipment though. Car's already have entirely too many regulations as is.
RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> FJ80WaitinForaLSV8
04/28/2014 at 10:22 |
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Makes 5000% more sense than mandatory backup cams.
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FJ80WaitinForaLSV8
> RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
04/28/2014 at 10:23 |
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Couldn't agree with you more. That rule literally makes my blood boil. Doesn't mean it makes sense though.
crowmolly
> ssm-one
04/28/2014 at 10:27 |
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1.) You don't want regular people trying to fight there own car fire. Better to let the car burn to the ground than have someone burn to death. There's a lot of different fluids (some under pressure) and people with no training can get in over their head fast.
2.) IMO you need a minimum of a 2.5 lb extinguisher for it to be any good. I worked at a fire safety lab for a little while and after that experience I'm sure the smaller ones won't be enough. So it will take up some space.
3.) Carrying a pressure vessel like this in (probably) a passenger compartment is not legal in a lot of places.
4.) The right type of extinguisher is expensive. The wrong type is more common and is not good to spray under a hood. You could get people total-ing their car out over some minor electrical smoke. Better than nothing in some cases but could be misused creating far more damage.
5.) Car fires, while spectacular and fun to make Ferrari jokes about, are probably far less common than they used to be.
I have a 2.5 lb extinguisher in my muscle car because it has fuel exposed to ambient air.
erikgrad
> ssm-one
04/28/2014 at 10:29 |
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I don't know how old the data is, but I found an average of 800 car fires are reported every day in the US. An average of 40 car/pedestrian accidents (in which the driver is backing up) are reported every day. If a backup camera is going to be standard, not sure why a fire extinguisher isn't?
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FJ80WaitinForaLSV8
> crowmolly
04/28/2014 at 10:30 |
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Could you enlighten us as to what is the proper type vs wrong type and what kinda of damage could ensue?
Rico
> FJ80WaitinForaLSV8
04/28/2014 at 10:31 |
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The reason for mandatory back up cameras is that US safety regulation has gotten out of control with front and rear bumper heights and belt lines that will only continue to grow higher.
sebdel
> ssm-one
04/28/2014 at 10:34 |
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They are required here (Ecuador), you need that and a first aid kit to pass a revision every year. But to be honest I don't think you can really make a difference, most fires are electrical issues and the extinguisher won't do much to help unless you can get the battery disconnected berfore the fire gets to big, and to really help you need a big extinguisher, but most people here carry a small one. I've seen two car fires in the las two years, the first one was completely out of control before anyone could get to the engine bay and the little fire extinguishers (everyone around was carrying one of course) did little to help. The second one was a bus in a road with heavy semi-truck traffic, that one was different, the semitruck drivers carry really big extinguishers and they used 10 or 12 of those to control the fire. That's when i realized if I'm going to carry a fire extinguisher it has to be a huge one.
BaconSandwich is tasty.
> ssm-one
04/28/2014 at 10:38 |
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I started carrying one just recently.
A few years ago, I was on a road trip with a friend. We were headed from Tooele to the Salt Flats for the end of speed week. About 15 minutes past Tooele, we could see smoke in the distance. As we got closer, we saw that it was a motor home with the entire front engulfed in flame, and the family out front watching it burn to the ground. Even if we had an extinguisher, by that point there was nothing that we could have done. It has always stuck in my mind, though, and thinking about it - it's likely that the fire could have been caught early on and the motor home saved (or at least the people's possessions in it). After seeing that, I've always wanted to carry an extinguisher. About a month ago, I finally got around to picking up a pair of them (one for the house, one for the car). Even if I don't ever have to use them, I think it's worth the $80. It's one of those things that I'd rather be safe than sorry with. Sure, it may have cost me $80, but $80 is a heck of a lot less than several thousand dollars.
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RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> crowmolly
04/28/2014 at 10:40 |
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I'm definitely going to have a 2.5+ in my Ranchero. I've already got a 2.5 in the back of my Rover, I think. With the carb setup on the rover, non-controlled fuel tank venting, mechanical fuel pump... better safe than sorry.
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ssm-one
> crowmolly
04/28/2014 at 10:42 |
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If I was in an accident and, god forbid, a member of my family was trapped inside a car that was on fire, you can be damn sure I wouldn't be standing around waiting for the fire department to respond.
And I agree extinguishing fires is not something everybody can or should do. However every industrial setting I have ever stepped into requires safety training for fuel refilling and use of fire extinguishers. While I don't think that would be too much to include in licensing requirements, you can be damn sure most would be up in arms over further inconvenience to their god-given right to drive...
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ssm-one
> FJ80WaitinForaLSV8
04/28/2014 at 10:45 |
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I agree cars already have too many regulations. My dismay is in the fact that fire extinguishers have existed for much longer than airbags, 5mph bumpers, day-time running lights etc., and we continue to implement these technologies while - for decades - have been overlooking something as imperative as fire safety.
davedave1111
> ssm-one
04/28/2014 at 10:46 |
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Simple answer is because car fires with modern cars are vanishingly rare. There are any number of things it's better to spend the money, space, and weight on than a fire extinguisher that most people won't know how to use and won't keep serviced/maintained.
If we're talking about nice classics it's a different kettle of fish, but beige boxes can burn for all I care. It's undoubtedly cheaper to replace a burnt out one every now and again than to put extinguishers in all of them.
Meatcoma
> ssm-one
04/28/2014 at 10:51 |
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Including a fire extinguisher in each car could be construed as an admission of guilt that the car could potentially catch on fire where the fire extinguisher would be used. If that did happen and someone tried to use said fire extinguisher and something happened, the manufacturer could be liable. I'm not a lawyer but I've been around long enough to know how things work and this is a perfect example.
I once heard a story(true or not, I'm not sure but I do believe it's possible and true) that someone had a warning sign about a dog on their fence, someone got bit, sued and because they had a sign on the fence it was claimed that they knew the dog could potentially be dangerous and were found guilty. That's the entire reason I don't have a sign on my fence about my dog, not that she would bite someone, I just don't want to be put in that situation should whatever reason cause her to bite someone trespassing in my yard.
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crowmolly
> FJ80WaitinForaLSV8
04/28/2014 at 10:53 |
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Been a little while and Halon is no longer out there, but the Halguard products (or equivalent) seem to be pretty good:
http://www.jegs.com/p/H3R-Performa…
A regular ABC will put out the fire just fine and prevent a reflash but it will get everywhere and can etch stainless and can corrode certain types of metals, including electrical connectors and so forth. Can be a royal PITA if it takes out your PCM, MAF, etc.
There is a ton of info on this and I don't consider myself all too knowledgeable in anything but the basics so if you are really interested it's better to search. I don't want to give bad safety info out.
Here's some "light reading" if you have some time:
http://amerex-fire.com/wp-content/upl…
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ssm-one
> davedave1111
04/28/2014 at 11:01 |
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Not everybody drives modern cars though. And cars aren't the only things that burn. I just think that as a general rule of thumb they make more sense than all of the modern safety technology that does little other than encourage not paying diligent attention while operating a motor vehicle on public roads. And yes, unfortunately most people would rather spend money, space and weight on useless ground effects, 20" wheels and home theater quality sound systems than an important piece of safety equipment..
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crowmolly
> ssm-one
04/28/2014 at 11:02 |
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If there is a real danger to somebody's life of course you will do whatever you can to save them. I don't think anybody would argue that. Bust the glass with your bare hands if you can save their lives and yours.
But we can't trust people to drive-right-pass-left, so I kind of doubt their ability to stay safety trained. Most people's first instinct is probably to pop the hood open which can be exactly the wrong move depending on the situation.
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ssm-one
> Meatcoma
04/28/2014 at 11:04 |
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Thankfully I don't live in such an egregiously litigious part of the world.
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davedave1111
> ssm-one
04/28/2014 at 11:07 |
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I said that in older and/or nicer cars it makes a lot more sense. Doesn't make sense in a Camry or some such.
"an important piece of safety equipment."
That's what I'm taking issue with. It's not an important piece of safety equipment in almost any situation other than the (thankfully) very rare instances where someone is trapped in a car that catches fire. In most cases, even with proper maintenance and use, a fire extinguisher is only going to save property, not lives.
"most people would rather spend money, space and weight on useless ground effects, 20" wheels and home theater quality sound systems "
I was thinking more of things like airbags, ABS, better crash protection and so-on.
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ssm-one
> crowmolly
04/28/2014 at 11:17 |
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I agree with you 1000%.... And without taking the entire conversation in a different direction, I will say that I think drivers training and licensing requirements in most of the world are utterly lacking, and enforcement of careless/dangerous driving laws typically happen after it's too late. The lack of attention people have while driving these days is frightening, especially with modern distractions like texting and huge infotainment systems.
Perhaps we need to be making cars less safe so people take driving and safety more seriously...
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ssm-one
> davedave1111
04/28/2014 at 11:30 |
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You're right. My conversation wasn't meant to infer that fire extinguishers are even close to potentially being the most important piece of safety equipment on a vehicle, just that you can't entirely engineer the risk of fire out of a vehicle and I wonder why, as long as that risk exists, some type of fire suppression system isn't engineered into modern vehicles. Perhaps, as mentioned above, it stems from admission to liability should a fire occur? Or the cost/benefit just doesn't exist?
It's just not a question I've ever heard asked or answered in my years and years of being an auto enthusiast...
A quick note on ABS... You wouldn't believe how many people I know that have no idea what the function of ABS is, let alone how to effectively use it.
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davedave1111
> ssm-one
04/28/2014 at 14:49 |
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I think the thing with fitting a fire suppression system these days is that car fires are so rare that a) people will think you're fitting it because your car is more of a fire hazard than usual and b) even just looking at stopping fires, you'd be better off spending the money on engineering a car that won't catch fire.
"You wouldn't believe how many people I know that have no idea what the function of ABS is, let alone how to effectively use it."
The beauty of ABS is that it works anyway :)