Colossal let downs

"AthomSfere" (AthomSfere) 04/27/2014 at 15:57 • Filed to: Trans Am, Firebird, Pontiac, NPoCP, letdowns, classic, classics, American, Muscle

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I apologize in advance for not actually taking pictures, so I am going to Bing search images for illustration of this unfortunate find:

(A 69)

(But more in this blue)

Someone is selling a 69 Trans Am here in town, it looks good at a glance, a nice blue with metal flake, and the 350 Badging. I drove past it and it looked pretty clean so I grabbed a buddy and went back to peak around.

The first thing we noticed when we got to it was the paint job. It looked like someone either underpaid, did it themselves, hired an amateur or some combination of the those problems. It was sprayed, but there were obvious lines where the original flatter blue was showing through the flake and clear coat. Not a horrible problem, respray on a good buy and you might have a great car.

Then we walked around a little further to the passenger side C pillar. Rust. Good rust on the window and the wheel well had rusted through the sheet metal. Ouch, at this point Bondo or a cut and replace. OK, still not horrible but the value of this is dropping fast.

Then, still on the passenger side we realize the door isn't lined up right. The gap around the door is uneven. Possibly a tweaked frame? We look a little harder and the trim inside the door on that side is also not square as it hangs off the door by about 1/2 inch. This looks like a side impact, perhaps minor but non the less an impact.

I get under the car at this point, in the parking lot there is plenty of clearance to look for something obvious to tell what frame damage there was. Mostly everything looks square and good here. In fact, first good thing I have seen so far, what looks like a new transmission:

If I had to guess the previous one had a seal fail, as there was what looked like an obvious stream of old oil / transmission fluid that had baked on pretty good. But the bottom of that transmission was as clean as they come.

Optimism started to kick in, if they went through the trouble on a restore / repair hopefully they went ahead and at least rebuilt the stock engine.

While under the car I did find two more signs of trouble though. One the car apparently hasn't been running much in the last couple years. The amount of spiderwebs, leaves and cobwebs looked like a garage had been this cars life for a while. More importantly signs of another mechanical issue. The brake cylinder on one side (Passenger) was caked with layer upon layer of probably brake fluid. It looked like an issue that had been ongoing for years, and as one layer baked on the next layer oozed out.

I get out from under the car, at this point the car is written off. This thing is pretty much CP unless you are willing to tear it apart and rebuild it. We keep looking though, and the rear of the car is weird looking. It isn't flat. It looks like origami. Seriously, the texture closely resembled this:

So again I get on the pavement, and look up, sure enough: Prior to the crappy respray this thing had the rear clip resurfaced with Bondo, loads of bondo. The bottom of the metal had the texture of burned cheese that had been spray painted the same blue metallic flake.

I do one more once around the car, note more rust on the drivers side but not nearly as bad. At least the panels all look square here too. The interior is close to pristine, At a glance through the locked doors, I would give the leather interior (white) an 8/10.

I have written this car off as a CP at just about any price, but what say you all? At what price with the described issues would you consider this a Nice Price?

And if I ever do another one of these, I will take pictures (or try).

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > AthomSfere 04/27/2014 at 16:12

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This would be a 1970 trans am.

NinetyQ > AthomSfere 04/27/2014 at 16:12

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If it's a genuine '69 Trans Am, I'd give it a value of $10,000+ based on that description. But I doubt you mean Trans Am since those were rare in '69, probably just a Firebird. Either that or you don't mean '69 since the one you posted is a '70-'73, and might be a much less rare Trans Am.

Anyway, if it's not a genuine '69 Trans Am, it might still be worth a couple grand or so if it runs and drives alright, no major structural rust, etc. It'll take quite a bit of work to make right, but could be worth it.

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > AthomSfere 04/27/2014 at 16:14

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This is 1969 trans am

Bandit > AthomSfere 04/27/2014 at 16:14

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This is a '71 or '72 Trans Am...

AthomSfere > NinetyQ 04/27/2014 at 16:17

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Hmm, interesting.

The body said Trans Am, and the tag said '69...

I might have to make an attempt to swing back by and snag a picture though for the Trans Am/ Firebird aficionados to confirm.

That was Friday when I saw this though, so some of the details of the car are fading.

AthomSfere > John Norris (AngryDrifter) 04/27/2014 at 16:19

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Updated the images.

I was a little too transfixed on the color apparently and didn't really pay attention to the headlights.

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > John Norris (AngryDrifter) 04/27/2014 at 16:20

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"Someone is selling a 69 Trans Am here in town, it looks good at a glance, a nice blue with metal flake, and the 350 Badging."

Should be a 400 for 1969.

AthomSfere > John Norris (AngryDrifter) 04/27/2014 at 16:20

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Updated the images.

AthomSfere > Bandit 04/27/2014 at 16:20

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Updated the images to be more accurate.

Bandit > AthomSfere 04/27/2014 at 16:23

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If you ever look at a 1970 - 1981 Firebird/Trans Am and need to know stuff about them, just ask me. Rust around the windshields isn't uncommon, there are factory seams at those locations and is normal for them to rust. It's not fun to replace though. Doors on those (2nd gen like the one you pictured) cars are so stupidly heavy that if the bushings in the door hinges haven't been replaced, the door most likely sags. The car's aren't full frame, they are unibody so replacing frame rails is super easy to remove and cheap to replace, I've had my front frame off before. If the car you looked at was like the 1971 Trans Am you posted, it should have had a 455 HO engine which are quite awesome engines (335 hp and 480 ft/lbs of torque).

NinetyQ > AthomSfere 04/27/2014 at 16:26

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'69 Trans Ams had a 400 engine, but wouldn't have had a trim decal for that. '69 Firebirds had a 350 engine option though, as did '70-'73 Trans Ams and Firebirds (of the body style you posted).

1969 Trans Am:

1969 Firebird:

1970-'73 Trans Am:

AthomSfere > Bandit 04/27/2014 at 16:29

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Awesome to know, thanks. Looking at that door (to me) it looked like it wasn't sagging as much as it just wasn't exatly the same shape as the door hole. The windows area rust, rust above the wheel well and the rear bumper 90 pounds of mis-shapen bondo though looked like a nasty spin/ side impact.

thoughts on what you would look at to rule it out?

Bandit > NinetyQ 04/27/2014 at 16:30

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In 1971 the only engine option for a trans am was the 455 HO, in '70 you could get the Ram Air engines and 400s, and in '73 you could start getting the 455 Super Duty powerplants.

AthomSfere > NinetyQ 04/27/2014 at 16:32

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Going off memory alone here then:

I am thinking this car was either a bastardized 69 or a 70 mis-labeled on the for sale sign.

I will try to make it by sometime today/ tonight to confirm.

Bandit > AthomSfere 04/27/2014 at 16:37

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On a first gen? I'm not too good at those but they are practically the same as the 1st gen camaros so all rust spots for those count for the Firebirds.

For second gens though if there is rust around the A pillar, leave the car. It's not worth patching up the firewall and roof supports. Seriously, that stuff is death rot for 2nd gens.

Rockers are almost guaranteed to be rotted on those cars but those are easy to fix. That bit of metal between the door and rear wheels are notorious for rusting out but are covered by fender flares so repairs don't have to be perfect. The area of metal directly behind rear wheels gets rusty and I personally find rust repair a bitch and you can't just unbolt the rear quarters. Basically, everything below the side windows on a 2nd gen are prone to rust. And in general, just leave a car if a frame is rusted beyond repair. It only means there's more rust everywhere else.

NinetyQ > Bandit 04/27/2014 at 16:53

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Woops, thanks for the correction. I was really thinking more along the lines of "you can get that engine even in a Firebird!"

NinetyQ > AthomSfere 04/27/2014 at 16:55

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'69 and '70 are totally different body styles. '69 is first-gen and '70 is 2nd-gen. Probably was a '70 then.

John Norris (AngryDrifter) > AthomSfere 04/27/2014 at 17:42

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That was from this link: 1969 TA rust bucket for sale

And there here is another one from this link: not quite as rusty

AthomSfere > John Norris (AngryDrifter) 04/27/2014 at 17:50

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Good stuff, $15k for that! Wow, good to know.