The Lexus ES needs to die

"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone) 04/26/2014 at 10:27 • Filed to: None

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If Lexus wants to secure its place in the tier 1 luxury automakers club, this suburban poser needs to face the chopping block, the Toyota Avalon can fill its segment.

Seriously, Lexus did some nice cars lately, the RC is up there with the Germans and leaves the current Q60 in the dust. The NX has even more road presence than the Range Rover Evoque, let alone the Germans, The GS chassis is so good, that only the all new CTS is better, in that class(according to MotorTrend). The IS is based on the same chassis and it beautifully combines comfort and driver engagement.

The RX is a suburbia legend and can be an option for some of those ES buyers, and the big Lexus SUV's are just as capable and even more luxurious than the unbreakable Toyota Land Cruisers, they are based on.

The CT is already a nice little car, that only needs more power.

With the ES gone, Lexus can focus on offering more trims and engines on the remaining cars, and it can also focus on the models it has in the pipeline, cars like a new SC, a groundbreaking new LS a la BMW Vision Future Luxury concept and rivals for the CLS and X6/X4.

Tom McParland > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/26/2014 at 10:34

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On the one hand I agree because it is such a sad car, but on the other they sell so many of them from a pure business perspective it would be such a loss for them to scrap it.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Tom McParland 04/26/2014 at 10:37

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Exactly.

I work for a Lexus Dealer. People do not care that the ES is just a tarted-up Avalon. They have the Lexus badge to prove they are better than their neighbor now.

Nevermind that the ES is truly the most uninspiring, yawn-inducing, and life-less vehicle in the Lexus portfolio to drive. Lexus has to keep the ES if only to cater to the Old-People-Badge-Snob Market.

dogisbadob > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/26/2014 at 10:39

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They still sell a ton of them, and it is their second best-selling model (top seller is the RX). Plus the fact that a rebadged Camry/Avalon probably doesn't cost them too much to make in relation to the sales and profit.

You know what happened when Acura dropped their best seller?

The ES has all the quality of a Camry but with more luxury and prestige. Some people do like those traits in a luxury car.

Audi makes a FWD A6—and even an A8. Shit, they even make a FWD Bentley! So the ES is like an A6 that actually works.

But I wish Lexus would offer the ES250 4-cylinder model that they have in China, for better fuel economy, lower starting price, and because I hate transverse V6 engines. It would also be nice if they made an ES-F with a turbo and AWD.

jariten1781 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/26/2014 at 10:41

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The ES is their top and most consistent selling car. Why in their right mind would they kill that?

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Tom McParland 04/26/2014 at 10:43

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But Lexus is not alone, like BMW or Mercedes is. They got Toyota to back them up with the Avalon, and if those ES buyers still want a Lexus, they can pick a RX, NX, IS or GS, depending on their needs and budgets. The number one priority for Lexus, should be image boosting cars.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > jariten1781 04/26/2014 at 10:50

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To boost their image, and as you can see, sales for the ES are going down and sales for the IS, GS and RX are going up. In medium and long term, Lexus is better off not competing with Buick, Acura and Lincoln.

Tom McParland > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 04/26/2014 at 10:59

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What is the phrase...something line "The ES is the best Buick GM never made."

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > dogisbadob 04/26/2014 at 11:08

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That would feel like an old Cadillac, a lot of power and a chassis with the rigidity of swiss cheese.

Axial > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/26/2014 at 16:09

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The ES will go away when the Audi A4, 2.5 L ATS, XTS, low-end 3- and 5-series, and the CLA disappear.

That is, never.

Everybody wants a luxury car, so the luxury makers catering to those that can't actually afford the properly good models is just low-hanging fruit.

Oh, and these brands are not Tier 1 Luxury. That category is made up by the likes of Rolls Royce and Bentley. Only Mercedes successfully pulls off being a mass-market marque and a Tier 1 luxury brand. Audi is too brutish and BMW is over-wrought in the details.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Axial 04/26/2014 at 16:55

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I'd rather have them selling lower end versions of the the IS and GS rather than seeing that damn faux premium car around.

Axial > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/26/2014 at 17:14

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Any luxury car that is using a 2.0 L turbo-4 making less than 300 HP is automatically faux-premium. Actually, I am going to be so bold as to claim that any luxury car using a 4-cylinder as its sole means of propulsion is not premium, period. 4-pots are peaky and rev-happy. While that is fine in a car like the Cayman (which may be getting a 4-cylinder), it's not what you aim for in a luxury car. On top of that, while a 4-cylinder can be balanced just fine, more cylinders are usually smoother. That's what speaks "luxury." Even my Chevrolet rattle-bucket is smoother than the best turbo-4s in operation.

And that's why I don't want to see diluted versions of the IS and GS. The only time I want to see four cylinder engines in premium cars is when those cars are either A.) aimed at being super performance focused like the 4C or B.) they have some fancy hybrid tech going on, like the i8 (which is actually a 3-banger, but you get the point).

So that's why the ES should exist. It's just good business sense to let people pay you money for your badge if they want to. It's even better business sense to isolate those people by giving them a bottom-tier model to buy so that the people with the means to purchase the better options get to retain their "exclusivity" or other feelings of being special. It's win-win for the automaker.

PardonMyFlemish16 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/27/2014 at 17:58

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Bzzzt, wrong

First of all the Germans themselves are abandoning the traditional German lineup, going after new niches and segments. So I don't see how Lexus would succeed adopting a strategy the Germans abandoned

Second of all the majority of people buying cars in the 3, 5, and 7 segments don't give a flying fluck about dynamics or chassis tuning or whatever outside of the car having a good ride and secure handling. If they did, the ES wouldn't outsell the IS/GS 2-4x to 1

Third of all the existence of the ES doesn't prevent Lexus from developing other cars/lines

This post is classic "internet auto brand manager". "Get rid of the cars that people buy that I dont like, arbitrarily add horsepower and basically ruin the business model of the brand". Hell no. If anything, Lexus should get rid of the LS. It's down to about 25% of the sales volume of its peak with no indication of a rebound. ES would be fine if they just gave it sexier styling and more appeal to younger buyers.

PardonMyFlemish16 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/27/2014 at 18:00

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Nobody would buy them.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Axial 04/27/2014 at 18:02

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All the turbo 4 bangers make boat loads of torque and don't rev very high.

Don't get me wrong, I hate turbo 4 bangers myself. But for non-performance entries, they can work.

Prome > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/27/2014 at 18:31

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This makes absolutely no sense. Lexus is printing money with the Lexus ES. Making money is more important than image and how much cachet do you really think Lexus would gain by discontinuing the ES?

Your "ES is a Suburban Poser" stance would get you fired in a room full of MBAs and product planners. Cars like the ES subsidize many other Lexus and Toyota products. It's as if you're trying to bankrupt the company for the sake of improving the image, which doesn't make any sense because Lexus doesn't have a brand image problem. You think they do because based on very limited data (i.e. what you read on the internet).

Kickplate > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/27/2014 at 19:52

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"The NX has even more road presence than the Range Rover Evoque..."

Seriously, are you high? I mean, come on! If you mean to say that "road presence" is synonymous with "bile-inducing," then we agree. But the Evoque is stunning, while the NX is an absolute travesty.

Kickplate > dogisbadob 04/27/2014 at 20:00

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A couple of points.

The ES is not a "rebadged" Camry. They share platforms. Big difference. Though they both suck, and aren't remotely comparable to an A6 or an A8.

Where do they offer a FWD Bentley? Not in the US. Same with the A8. The A6 is only offered as FWD and CVT in the most base trim. Audi dealers don't even carry them in stock because for $1500 more you can get Quattro and a great 8-speed transmission.

Kickplate > Axial 04/27/2014 at 20:05

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Agreed. People throw the word "luxury" around like it applies to everything. An ES isn't even remotely a luxury car any more than Buick is. A 3 Series and C-Class aren't either. Lexus doesn't have a single car that could be considered a luxury vehicle in their lineup. Lexus is a premium brand, but not a luxury brand, as is most of the Audi and BMW lineup, with the exception of only the topmost vehicles like the R8, A8L or 7 Series.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Kickplate 04/27/2014 at 20:07

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There is a reason why personal tastes are personal...

dogisbadob > Kickplate 04/27/2014 at 20:12

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Yeah I know the ES isn't just a 100% rebadged Camry, but too many people hate on the sharing while I see absolutely nothing wrong with it since Toyota makes great cars, and I'm kind of a Toyota fanboy. Unfortunately, neither car is what they used to be, which is a shame since the ones they made 20 years ago happen to be the best cars ever made.

Too bad the FWD A8 isn't offered over here though, especially with the TDI V6—this combo is supposedly over $6000 cheaper than the lowest model we get in the US. I didn't know the A price difference was only $1500 for the A6. And fuck them for not giving us wagons anymore!

Kickplate > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/27/2014 at 20:13

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So just to be totally clear, you believe that the NX is a solid design?

Kickplate > dogisbadob 04/27/2014 at 20:17

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Totally. Love Audi wagons. If I were twelve years old, I'd have a poster of the RS6 Avant on my bedroom wall. I've heard rumblings that the TDI A8 may come stateside. But I question how well received it would be with FWD.

Axial > PardonMyFlemish16 04/27/2014 at 20:22

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True, but they still sound awful and aren't as inherently smooth-running, which is why the peakiness and high-revs are bad for luxury in the first place.

I think luxury is supposed to be about having it all: looks, sounds, performance, comfort, toys, sturdiness. There isn't a 4-cylinder (or V6) in the world that can match the sound of an inline-6, V8, or V12 burbling on by. That's not to say they necessarily sound bad, just that they sound wrong. Ditto the way they feel under throttle.

Axial > Kickplate 04/27/2014 at 20:35

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Yeah. I made a long-winded comment explaining my stance on this subject last year. The jist of it was that any "premium" brand that makes the majority of its sales on bottom-feeder models is not a luxury brand. BMW being a mass-market automaker first and a premium maker second, cannot be "luxury." Audi, which makes most of its money on glorified GLI/Passat equivalents, similarly cannot be a luxury marque.

Mercedes is actually grey territory.

I think the only car that comes close to luxury in Lexus's current fleet is the IS-F. They otherwise get plastered by Cadillac, another "aspirational" brand which at least has roots as being True Luxury, similar to Mercedes-Benz.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Kickplate 04/27/2014 at 20:35

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Yes it is, even if it looks a bit like an edgy CX-5.

It is futuristic and Japanese, sporty and sharp(for a crossover) without having the hump of an X4, and most of all, it is exactly what this segment needs.

Captain_Spadaro > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/27/2014 at 20:52

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Not happening. It's one of their best sellers.

Kickplate > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 04/27/2014 at 21:02

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Ermkeh then. It has a lot of crazy molded plastic hanging off the front wheels and on the rear. But the metal middle is very conventional. So IMHO, it's a fairly disjointed design. I wasn't aware that anyone had anything positive to say about it. So that is where I was confused. I'm sure it will sell well regardless.