I can't remember the last time I wanted a new car more

"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228)
04/21/2014 at 17:49 • Filed to: None

I'll have a V6S with a 6-speed manual swapped in, and all of the unnecessary weight ripped out. An F-Type Lightweight if you will.

DISCUSSION (52)

Brian Silvestro > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 17:51

I have this feeling of want with the 4C. I can't believe how much I want it.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 17:52

Good luck on that tranny swap...

I does look great, though. I got to sit in one at the auto show. Sweet piece of kit, as they say.

Manuél Ferrari > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 17:56

Better to just wait until they offer it with the MT.

They have to do that eventually, right? If they don't it's a big fail. This car isn't just about performance. It's like an Aston - about looks and sound and feel. An MT is a necessity.

Saracen > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
04/21/2014 at 17:59

I sat in one too. Gorgeous inside and out, I have many wants. The lack of a 6MT makes me want to cry inside.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 17:59

I drove a DB9 once, incredible car with a horrendous flappy paddle gearbox. Either give us a good DCT or a stick, bad autos ruin cars.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 18:05

I'm hoping they do as well. If not, I'll probably have to do something clever with the engine management. The trouble with modern autos is their operation is tied into the ECU to get smoother shifts, but it means they have a fit if you just straight-swap a manual.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 18:07

Nonsense. It's only a "lightweight" if it has different fenders for no reason and some parts can be removed, otherwise weighing almost the same.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Saracen
04/21/2014 at 18:07

I just cried on the outside, and people looked at me weird.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
04/21/2014 at 18:08

If I do get enough funds to buy one, I wonder whether there would be a market for swapping in 6-speeds. Provided Jag don't do it themselves of course.

Manuél Ferrari > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 18:10

I will go out on a limb and predict that if Jaaag doesn't offer a stick it will kill their comeback.

I know that the take rates for sticks are low these days. But some people will not buy a sports car if it isn't offered with a manual. To be on par with the C7 and 911 Carrera and Carrera S Jag needs to offer a stick.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Brian Silvestro
04/21/2014 at 18:11

I do rather want one of those as well, but I'm waiting for the potential new Spider. Mostly because I might actually stand a chance of affording one.

Also, I've yet to see a 4C in person. I think I'll be blown away a little when I finally do :)

Brian Silvestro > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 18:12

It's staggeringly beautiful. You will not be disappointed.

Manuél Ferrari > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/21/2014 at 18:17

I have never got to ride in one. I just tried to research it and couldn't find definitive information on what kind of automatic it uses, but it looks like it's a manually adjustable slushbox?

If so that sucks. If I'm forced to use paddles I'd much rather use a jerky single-clutch sequential manual than a "super slushbox". I just got to drive an AMG C63 over the weekend. The super slushbox made me disappoint.

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 18:18

Still tartier than a fifteen year old Essex girl.

Anyway, I'm pretty certain you could strip out a V12 XJS to weigh less. Especially once you replace the engine with a VW V12 TDi.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 18:19

If the Porsche purists can convince Porsche to release a GT3 with a manual, maybe Jaguar will see the business case for doing it. It's all about whether they can make money doing it. They clearly thought that they wouldn't sell enough manuals to make it worth their while.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 18:22

It's a single clutch semi automatic box, it was relatively smooth but slow to change gear. For road use it'd be more than adequate but I was doing one of those track day experience things in it so I was shifting at high revs the full time, just took a lot longer to shift than you wanted it to.

Manuél Ferrari > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
04/21/2014 at 18:23

That will be a major victory if Porsche purists can convince Porsche to release a manual GT3. I can kind of see why a car that's all about lap times is PDK only. But some people would rather heel and toe than get the fastest possible lap times.

I read a rumor that Porsche will offer the GT3 RS with a manual if you pay more than the PDK equipped car. That will be pretty funny.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 18:24

BMW was convinced with the new M5 (at least for the US), so maybe there's hope...

Manuél Ferrari > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/21/2014 at 18:25

How weird. Normally those boxes shift pretty fast when you dial the settings up to the quickest shifts, but they aren't smooth for driving around town. Aston managed to fix one problem but create another.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 18:26

Nah, I don't think there's much that could kill Jag's comeback at the moment. If they offer a manual, lots of people on the internet without the funds to purchase a new Jaguar will rejoice. They might pick up a few new customers, but it's right on the border of profitability.

The F-Type is a stunning car with or without a manual, much though I wish they'd release both.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
04/21/2014 at 18:27

...and £30,000 added to the list price for the pleasure.

Manuél Ferrari > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
04/21/2014 at 18:28

It is petty funny that you can get a huge ass M5 with a stick but not the Jaaaag

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 18:28

I think with it being more of a GT car they aimed more for smoothness than quick changes at high revs. Either that or there are different modes for the transmission and the instructor had it on the road settings.

Manuél Ferrari > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 18:31

I know that a lot of the people that want the stick can't afford it. But what does the cheapest version of the F Type start for again? I thought it wasn't too bad and competed with some Caymans. Maybe some MT-loving folks can afford it?

What they should do is develop a DCT that can be deployed as a stick while sharing its basic design with the DCT. What Porsche did with PDK was pretty smart.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111
04/21/2014 at 18:40

V12 TDi XJS? Holy mother of Frankenstein cars. 490bhp and 740lb-ft.

Based on some rough approximations of the weight of fibreglass panels, big bumpers and rear seats you can get a V12 XJS down to about 1600kg (from 1681kg for an S1 non-HE).

Add in some lighter alloys for a few more kilos, lose the spare wheel, alloy 4-pot brakes and you could be at roughly 1550kg.

Then it's essentially a V12 E46 M3 made by British Leyland. Aww hell yes.

Manuél Ferrari > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/21/2014 at 18:42

Hmm it looks like the DB9 does have a slushbox:

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-…

"The latter. Aston says it looked at using the Sportshift box from the V8 Vantage , but found that – though good – it still couldn't match the smoothness of the magnificent ZF six-speed torque-convertor auto used in the DB9..."

It looks like the Sportshift in the V8 Vantage may be a single clutch sequential paddle shift transmission.

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 18:48

"490bhp and 740lb-ft."

I've always felt those were figures worth rounding up. 500 bhp and 750 lb-ft or nothing.

You have more experience with this kind of thing than me, but I'm surprised you only reckon you could shed 80kg with fibreglass panels. Somehow I imagine an XJS to be made out of steel half an inch thick.

But I was thinking most of the weight savings would be from the interior. The back seat must weigh 50kg on its own. The hard part would be shedding weight and still keeping it properly Jaaaag. Do you know if it's possible to lay wood veneer on top of carbon fibre? (He wrote, finishing his beer.)

"Then it's essentially a V12 E46 M3 made by British Leyland."

Only with three times the torque...

Hell yes, indeed.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 18:53

That'd be cool, especially on a hardcore version. I think it's likely that they will release a manual version, but I wouldn't want to put any of my hard-earned on it.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 18:54

I stand corrected, that makes a lot more sense. Not sure where I got the impression it was a semi auto from.

Manuél Ferrari > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 18:56

I could see myself putting money on an F Type with an MT one day. Because it would make me feel like I was James Bond in an Aston without having to buy an Aston and risk what happens if the company goes down.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 18:57

Kinja'd!!!

I was actually making a crack about something directly related to my idiom .

Manuél Ferrari > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/21/2014 at 18:57

Maybe the instructor made it seem like it was to make your laps seem more race-like :D

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 19:03

Kinja'd!!!

I'd rather have the Project 7...

Or an F-Type R Coupe with a 4-point roll hoop, and a carbon fiber roof skin, otherwise dressed in the same gorgeous blue and white.

And I would go with the center-exit exhaust, and no fixed spoiler.

That would be one helluva F-Type Coupe.

I wouldn't argue with them doing a 6-speed manual, but the F1 style gearbox is fine... I just wish they had dispensed with the faux gear stick selector thing, though. If it isn't truly manual... clear out the space on the center console, and put the controls on the wheel... and maybe the round genesis-device PRND selector on the dash or vertical part of the console.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 19:04

Haha I was 16 when I did that track day, there was nothing race like about my driving.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111
04/21/2014 at 19:04

I think a more open exhaust to make it sound like the R18 TDi Le Mans cars should round it up nicely :)

I was actually just going with a fibreglass bonnet, doors as well might add more as would the boot, but I'd like to try and maintain a good weight distribution. Spitfire panel-wise, I've found fibreglass to be about half the weight of steel (alloy about a third). V12 bonnet weighs 40kg I'm thinking? Maybe more.

I also estimated the weight of the rear seats at 25kg, although I could be way off there as well. The whole bench may well weigh 50kg. To keep it Jaaag I think I'd get a flat cargo bench padded and covered in leather.

Wood-veneered carbon-fibre would be perfect. I think I might have to try that at some point.

I was thinking just the standard, non-TDi swapped XJS as an M3-fighter. The diesel might actually weigh a little more, but it's hard enough to find weights for normal performance engines. Still, hard to argue with more torque than all the rest of my fleet combined :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
04/21/2014 at 19:08

All perfect suggestions :) the fact that they don't offer Ecurie Ecosse blue on all new Jags is thoroughly perplexing :)

I'm thinking white powder-coating on the 4-point hoop as well.

Manuél Ferrari > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/21/2014 at 19:08

You were probably faster than I would be now at 35. I haven't been on the track since I was 21 and I'm scared that I'll be conservative old guy now, lol

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
04/21/2014 at 19:10

Ah gotcha. I really want a lightweight actually, but you're right. The moniker is a little misleading...

Ooh, how about a genuinely lightweight LR Lightweight with a Bowler V8 :) I'd take it on trackdays.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 19:12

When you're in a borrowed aston martin that you pay for if you crash, on track before you even have your drivers licence you drive like a 90 year old on their way to the supermarket haha.

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 19:12

You mean you're not going for a full fibreglass rebody?

"Still, hard to argue with more torque than all the rest of my fleet combined."

They wrote 'V12 TDi' on top. 'Ultima Ratio Regum' would have been more fitting.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 19:14

I can't even find that they put my favorite blue... Jaguar R-type exclusive Kyanite Blue, on the F-Type R at all, which is a damn shame... but probably with enough money... they'll special order it, like Porsche's Techquipment division.

Kinja'd!!!

That color BELONGS on F-type with a blacked-out, transparent-tinted, or carbon-fiber clear coated roof, and silver or titanium white accents, and ecurie ecosse logos.

Manuél Ferrari > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
04/21/2014 at 19:15

Haha that would be scary! "You break you buy" would freak me out too

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 19:17

Great reasoning :) I'd love to put down money on an MT F-Type as well, but I don't see myself making nearly enough money until they're out of production.

I'd love a V8 Vantage as well actually. I think they'll experience an E-Type-style surge in value in the future, which would justify my hooning about in one in the present :)

Manuél Ferrari > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 19:20

You just convinced me to bite the bullet and buy a V8 Vantage one day

Screw the risks, it could become a collectible!

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > davedave1111
04/21/2014 at 19:21

It'd be like a V12 Lotus Elite! Even cooler.

"'Ultima Ratio Regum' would have been more fitting."

Yet another thing I must do :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
04/21/2014 at 19:23

That combination is perfect.

Kinja'd!!!

Oh, another conspicuously absent colour is BRG. Especially on the R-variants.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 19:25

That's my thinking too :) They're getting dangerously close to £30k used now.

Manuél Ferrari > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
04/21/2014 at 19:42

We have to make it happen one day then!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 23:06

It needs to happen. I also get the lap times rationale, but taking away part of the experience from the most visceral of all Porsches is just a shame to me. Options make people happy.

Manuél Ferrari > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
04/21/2014 at 23:35

variety is the spice of life!

That's why I have a 6MT, 6 speed sequential single clutch, and a DCT

I like them all for different reasons :)

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Manuél Ferrari
04/21/2014 at 23:43

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3qjDQ…

Manuél Ferrari > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
04/22/2014 at 00:59

Great review. It seemed honest.

The 6MT M5 is more novel and manly. But it's also more clumsy.

The E39 M5 is great because you can never guess whether you bought the correct transmission or not. It only came with the stick :)