German approach to recalls is pure police state: fix it or park it

"DCCARGEEK" (dccargeek) 04/17/2014 at 10:40 • Filed to: None

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Earlier this week Bloomberg !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! that highlighted the number of drivers that fail to address vehicle safety recalls. By law automakers are required to notify owners about recalls and newer provisions in the current highway law, MAP-21, provides NHTSA more flexibility in how notifications are made to ensure the agency isn't restricted from using modern technology like E-mail.

NHTSA has improved the way in which they deliver recall notices, adding red labels to the exterior of the envelope (image below). The agency is also in the process of creating a VIN look-up tool on their website, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , along with making VIN look-up tools mandatory on automaker's websites too.

But notification of the owner is really half the battle.

We get the recalls, but we don't remedy

There are a multitude of reasons why vehicle safety defects are not remedied (fancy word for fixed), even when the notice is received. People are lazy, people dislike going to the dealer, people are busy, and people are lazy. Oh, I said that already. And while many of these defects only impact the driver of that vehicle, there are defects that could cause harm to other drivers (think no brakes at highway speed or a loss of steering input into a turn).

In 2011 the Government Accountability Office (GAO) looked closely at the vehicle recall process. They also compared NHTSA to its counterpart in four other countries; Germany, UK, Canada and Japan.

Authorities may vary

In Canada, Transport Canada , the Frozen North's version of NHTSA, can't order a vehicle recall, however they can "prosecute a manufacturer on criminal charges if the manufacturer does not notify vehicle owners after identifying a safety defect."

And in Japan automakers are required to notify Japan's Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism (MLIT) about safety recalls, but not safety defects.

Then we get to Germany. Ah, Germany. Not only can Germany force an automaker to issue a recall, but they can also revoke your vehicle registration until the recall is remedied. And according to GAO, they use that authority over a 1,000 times a year. In the German the goal isn't to address safety defects, but rather to eliminate them, completely.

How do the hell do they do this? Well, for a lack of better term - big government.

Unlike in the US, where NHTSA has to go to 52 DMVs (including Puerto Rico & D.C.) to get vehicle information, Germany has a Central Vehicle Register (CVR) system which is a federal German database combining VIN and vehicle user information (name and address).

Now, CVR isn't used for all recalls. Below is a diagram pulled from a cache file of some European policy discussion involving Germany's implementation of an EU directed on safety recalls. This shows when an example of when a CVR might be used and when a registration may be revoked. (Note: RAPEX, which stands for Rapid Alert System for Non-food Dangerous Products, is the EU database for all product safety recall information to include vehicles.)

This leads me to my policy question of the day!

For identified defects that pose a threat to other drivers, should the government, working through states if needs be, take a more proactive approach (i.e. German approach) to ensure defects are repaired?

bob and john > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 10:51

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I'm all for it. too many cars driving around that really should not be on the road. First step to helping ensure that is something like this.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 10:53

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Yes.

And, we should have national vehicle inspections like the UK MOT. I have stopped counting the number of times I have seen cars that are clearly already scrap, but the owner/driver refuses to believe it.

Yes, that means that people will have to pay more to maintain their cars on a regular basis.

Guess what? That's a good thing. I'm sure we have all seen people driving in a car that is clearly a danger to them and everyone else on the road as well. Owning a car is expensive. Sure it's cheaper here than nearly everywhere else on earth, but that does not give anyone the right to endanger anyone else with their neglect. Cars are, and have always been, a privilege.

And don't get me started on our deplorable licensing standards...

/rant/

jariten1781 > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 10:55

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Nah, the government should be as proactive as it needs to be to ensure the manufacturers notify everyone affected of the problem and its potential effects. It's then the personal responsibility of the owner and the manufacturer to get it remedied. I wouldn't want the government to proactively pull registrations, that could lead to all sorts of insurance and legal problems for well meaning drivers.

A middle ground I'm ok with would be, for states that have safety inspections, to run the VIN for outstanding safety recalls prior to passing them.

GTI MkVII > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 11:04

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Yet another example of federalism screwing things up. Seriously, this country is "United" by name only.

m2m, apex detective > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 11:10

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ADabOfOppo expressed it pretty well, e.g. I also think the U.S. need something along the lines of the UK MOT or Germany's TÜV/HU as a means to ensure vehicle safety within certain parameters. If people can drive cars barely held together ... well, that's a problem .

m2m, apex detective > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 11:16

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Also, something that just popped up in my head: why maintain ridiculous crash/impact test standards for new cars when you don't give a crap about cars that are already a few years old, yet will be on the road for so many more?

What's the percentage of new-ish cars vs older cars in the States? In Germany, if your POS car you've loved so long is a rust bucket, you either make sure it is repaired properly, or you simply stop driving it ... until it's fixed or scrapped. I've seen people not get TÜV clearance because they had put in shitty aftermarket light bulbs that didn't fit the inspectors' gusto.

offroadkarter > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 11:52

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Follow up question

Do we really need to give the gov't another job they'll inevitably fuck up? They can't handle what they do now.

My answer is no, people shouldn't need to be babysat this much by big gov't.

Klaus Schmoll > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 11:52

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I'll just leave this here:

And as others have already said in this thread, what's the point of having all these fancy new vehicle safety legislations if people can drive around in something like this?

ezeolla > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 04/17/2014 at 11:54

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Most of us have that. It is called state inspection./emissions. In PA we have it once a year, and it is pretty comprehensive

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > ezeolla 04/17/2014 at 11:55

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Ohio does not. I'm not certain that most states even do.

PelicanHazard > ezeolla 04/17/2014 at 11:55

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And yet I live in the western part an easy commute's drive from Ohio, which has no such standards. "Ohio parts specials" don't often cross here, but when they do, I stay the hell away.

TurboLag23 > ezeolla 04/17/2014 at 11:57

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In CA, we have smog testing... which you can just circumvent if you "know a guy". State-regulated car inspections are in shambles right now.

Ash78, voting early and often > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 12:00

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Perhaps, but considering that we have 50 states with disparate laws to begin with (few, if any relate to actual vehicle safety beyond lighting and emissions), it would be a huge battle. I full support that driving is a privelige and not a right, but in terms of impact, driver training would be a much better investment. Where do you draw the line on mechanical safety? This isn't commercial aviation with mandatory overhauls and maintenance schedules.

I'd love to see some stats on vehicle accidents caused by mechanical failure vs driver error. I bet it's one in a thousand at best.

Low-hanging fruit: tires. I'd actually support more policing of worn tires and free 30-day fixit tickets for drivers. If anything, that's the best cost/benefit in this arena.

dreygata > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 04/17/2014 at 12:00

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Alabama doesn't. Don't have a catalytic convertor and are blowing black smoke out of your rusting out exhaust, while failing to signal because none of your turn signals function? Go right ahead.

JohnnyWasASchoolBoy > jariten1781 04/17/2014 at 12:02

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The problem with the "personal responsibility" of the owner argument is that it doesn't address public safety. If an owner were to ignore a recall that, if it manifested itself in the owner's car, would cause a major system to shut down while the vehicle is moving, that's a public safety issue.

You could argue that insurance, litigation etc... would sort out the mess but that doesn't help the person who has been injured by the negligent car owner.

I think the middle ground should be something like: Each state has a centralized database which would be tied to a federal database. The manufacturers are required to submit their recall notices to the federal d-base which would then feed them out to the state d-bases. The state would then be able to track owners to ensure that they are getting the recall dealt with.

thebullfrog > ezeolla 04/17/2014 at 12:04

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In Illinois, so long as it passes the OBDII emissions check, you're good to go, and that isn't even in all cities. If I were to register my truck one town over, no inspection of any kind.

.Lone > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 12:06

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Governments don't fail at everything. Some things run well, others don't.

offroadkarter > .Lone 04/17/2014 at 12:08

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Some things do, most don't

dogisbadob > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 12:10

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that would be awesome if this really was the real NHTSA logo

Auto Guy > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 12:12

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Yes, we should have it, but only as part of a larger national inspection program. Which will never happen in any of our lifetimes. Still, it would have the added benefit of removing home built monster trucks from the road: you know, the ones that are 10 feet tall and always seem to be going 90 mph in the left lane. And yet, part of me enjoys living in a country where we can still do crazy things — just leave the innocents out of it.

duurtlang > m2m, apex detective 04/17/2014 at 12:15

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Exactly. I had my recently purchased BMW fail (Dutch) inspection because the battery wasn't fitted totally secure and there was a little bit of corrosion on the left rear brake pipe/tube/whatever(not my native language). And I'm okay with that.

CaptainFaux > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 04/17/2014 at 12:15

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For major safety issues, yeah, I think they should be able to suspend your registration. Hell, in Virginia, they do it if you haven't paid the personal property tax on your car. I'd rather see them suspend the registration of someone whose car is a danger to them and the unlucky bastards around them.

I do pay attention to recalls for my car and those of my friends' — only one so far has been about mis-cut carpeted floor mats, which thankfully doesn't apply because I use the rubber ones from the AWP instead.

Re: Ohio standards ... Yep, I drive from DC to see my parents in Northern Kentucky a couple of times a year and I've noticed the difference in the quality/upkeep of cars in West Virginia, which does have inspections, and Ohio, which does not. Kentucky used to have them but scrapped them a few years back. But cars in No. Kentucky are generally still nicer-kept than those in SE Ohio.

Virginia's inspection system is quite painless (unless you wait until the last Saturday of the month when yours expires, which which case, bring a book). Lots of car dealerships, repair places, tire/muffler joints and gas stations are equipped to do them.

On the other side of the spectrum, if you're getting an inspection in DC, you'd better just take the day off work. They only have one inspection station for the whole District. Which is while I will NEVER have a car registered there.

.Lone > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 12:17

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There are differing definitions of success. And if you don't believe that the thing they are doing or addressing is legitimate, that automatically becomes a failure, regardless of the outcome.*

* If the outcome and execution is even remotely positive, everyone mostly just forgets why they were against it after two years.

offroadkarter > .Lone 04/17/2014 at 12:22

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our gov't can't even run a website, I'm not going to have them revoking my registration if my car doesn't have the recall done for a stupid seat bolt or some bullshit. Which, by the way, since registrations are handled on a state level, you'd have to make it a federal law that all the state gov'ts have to enforce this crap.

We don't need to be giving them more control over our lives than they already have. Period

Phlegminglib > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 12:26

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How do the hell do they do this? Well, for a lack of better term - big government.

German's government spending represents about 19% of their total GDP, compared to our roughly 16% of GDP, I don't think that's "big government". Denmark & France, whose government spending represents an average of 25% ~ 28% GDP would be, in my mind, "big government".

Wagons-Midwest > ezeolla 04/17/2014 at 12:26

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PA is awesome like that. Most statues kind of suck when it comes to inspections.

WebOn > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 12:28

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YEAH, down with government! ANARCHY!

SheriffTruman > ezeolla 04/17/2014 at 12:28

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We have them here in NC also, but they never check things like recalls and its essentially does the horn work, are the tail lights unbroken and plug the machine into the OBD port.

Fdor > Klaus Schmoll 04/17/2014 at 12:28

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This is a big problem, yep. New vehicles may be safe from factory but if people have accidents in them and don't get them repaired, or simply let them fall into a state of complete disrepair, then what's the point?

People often say, as an objection to the government enforcing recalls and repairs, that the market will take care of it. Yes, it will, but only to a certain extent. Some insurance companies will not insure something like shown in the video but you'll always be able to find someone who will so those kinds of cars will be on the road.

Public safety is the responsibility of the government. Forcing repairs and recalls is a public safety issue and should be strictly enforced.

.Lone > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 12:32

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Right, they can't run a website until suddenly they can, then everyone forgets in two years.

It's also a self-fulfilling prophecy. Government will always fail -> So let's just do this thing in the least ambitious and most compromised way possible so no one gets upset -> It isn't perfect -> Government will always fail.

crazysaturn > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 12:33

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Our government runs thousands of websites. As for the law being "crap," I'd recommend you look at Germany's accident and fatality statistics compared to ours. As well, if you can, travel over that way and see how cars relate to other forms of transportation. It's fucking miraculous. Given how terrible the US's statistics and drivers are in comparison, I'd say we could learn a thing or two from them.

offroadkarter > WebOn 04/17/2014 at 12:33

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go back to gawker

offroadkarter > crazysaturn 04/17/2014 at 12:36

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Being a bad driver isn't going to be fixed if they revoke your registration due to recalls. Our driving program is a joke, thats the real issue.

If our state gov'ts cared about vehicle safety they wouldn't be focusing on emissions only so hard. NJ removed its safety part of the inspection back in 09 because the failure rate for a mechanical issue was something like 3-8% of the cars tested yearly.

If we need to take anything from Germany, its the design for the autobahn to implement in our interstate system with better quality road surfaces and unlimited zones.

smrtypants44 > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 12:37

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I bet you'd change your tune if you were facing jail time for vehicular manslaughter after t-boning someone at 35 mph because they didn't fix their recalled airbags.

offroadkarter > smrtypants44 04/17/2014 at 12:40

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I'm pretty damn sure I would not be facing jail time for some elses fuck up. The only way that could be pinned on me is if I was either

Driving in a reckless manner

Under the influence

if it was a case of they ran a red light and I t boned them and they died, theirs zero chance I would be to blame for that.

If they die because they didn't get their car fixed, well guess what. Stupid hurts

Porthos > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 12:44

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I am going to say No. I say this because I would love to get sersiouly injured in an accident from a jack ass who ignored a safety recall so I can sue them, the manufacturer, and the goernment into the ground. Why you ask? Because 'Murica!! Thats why, now get the fuck out!!

ColonialSaab > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 12:44

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Cars are going to be more networked than ever. Integration of state DMVs will also happen. So yes, the future will look like Germany.

Cé hé sin > Phlegminglib 04/17/2014 at 12:45

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Are you comparing like with like though? Germany is a federal country, France and Denmark aren't so there is also expenditure by state governments to consider.

StevenG > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 12:45

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Good, all counties should use this system.

StevenG > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 12:46

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Clearly they do if recalls are not being done.

StevenG > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 12:47

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The road surfaces are not that different, the unlimited zones would be a death trap in the USA. Sure those are differences, but not what leads to their better outcome.

German safety inspections would fail a far greater percentage of those cars and the drivers too. We need that first.

ThatDamnKid > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 04/17/2014 at 12:49

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Florida does not.

RevCrowley > crazysaturn 04/17/2014 at 12:52

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Car ownership is much "elitist" (for want of a better term) in Germany, though. In most of the US a car is a practical necessity, even if you're poor. The UK's safety rate is even better than Germany's, BTW. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c… )

Phlegminglib > Cé hé sin 04/17/2014 at 12:52

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France may not have states, but they do have regions that have their own spending power. Overall spending is overall spending, there is no magic source of tax revenue.

EmotionalFriend > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 13:01

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Once again the Germans have it spot on. People barely maintain their cars even without defects so what makes us think that all the plebs who bought a Chevy Cobalt would bring their car in for a recall? It's unfair to the issuer and it's unfair to other drivers on the road to leave this up to the car's owner. Every accident and/or death post-recall still makes the company issuing the recall look bad even though they're trying to rectify the problem and meanwhile all of us with perfectly functional cars are driving on the same roads as rolling 2 ton missiles.

Normally I'm against the government regulating just about anything, but this seems like a simple enough and important enough issue that even the U.S. Government can handle it without screwing things up.

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 13:05

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So much win here. The Government should really have tiered recall system. I would help improve completion rates on dangerous recalls for sure.

RobertsDP > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 13:10

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Just a heads up, the link you listed in the article for safecar.gov is wrong... is should be safercar.gov

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 13:22

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Whoa, hold on a minuet, "RAPEX"? It's really called "RAPEX"?

FriscoFairlane > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 13:23

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I have 2 recall repairs pending on our xB, and one of them could even result in FIERY DEATH! Gotta get those taken care of. You know, before the FIERY DEATH.

F50F60 > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 13:28

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When the cars are rounded up in Germany, are they kept at work camps?? I'm kidding, kidding...

jayed_coins > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 13:44

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Yeah we need a better interstate system. Which requires... a federal government with power to implement these improvements.

Also, the existence of Problem B, which you, or anyone, or perhaps even most people agree is worse than Problem A, is not a reason to ignore Problem B, or even demote it to the back burner. We have lots of smart people in this country and a lot of problems to solve — we can multi-task. I would agree that highway design and road quality are bigger every-day problems for driver safety and efficiency than how recalls are handled, but that isn't a reason not to also consider ways to improve what is pretty clearly a mediocre, at best, recall process.

It isn't as simple as concluding, "Well if some asshole doesn't take care of that safety issue that resulted in a recall, it's his own fault if he gets hurt!" It infringes on my right to share a public motorway in safe matter when that asshole decides he doesn't want to be bothered with fixing the safety issue on his car. His car shutting off at freeway speeds, or a bolt coming loose on his seat, is enough to distract him, and his distracted-ness is enough to cause him to veer into my lane and run me into an injury at worst, and a big repair bill at best.

Also, whether any of us like it or not, this safety is a macro issue given the health insurance individual mandate. Even if some asshole's carelessness only leads to his car being dangerous for him and only him in the direct sense, his hospital bill when that defect rears its ugly head impacts all of us much more directly now that we all have to have insurance, and now that community rating is forced almost across the board.

DCCARGEEK > Phlegminglib 04/17/2014 at 13:46

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Big government in terms of the federal government acting in a role that we have determined was best left to states and not in a per GDP debate.

m2m, apex detective > duurtlang 04/17/2014 at 13:50

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As I can only speak of my experience with the TÜV – do you also get a report about the findings post-check? I was once told that the wiper nozzles were misaligned and that my brake pedal could be adjusted to have less play.

The car got through, though, and I got to hear that car was in great overall shape. Yay! The HU before that, I had to have the brakes done first; not only did I not get the okay, I had to come back and suffer the whole procedure again after having it fixed.

duurtlang > m2m, apex detective 04/17/2014 at 13:55

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We do get a rapport with things to pay attention to. For example tires with only barely enough thread left to pass inspection. You get the best information from talking to the mechanic who did the test though. When I had the car inspected after importing it I stayed during the inspection and was able to walk under the car to see the spots you don't normally see.

rayJoyal > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 14:07

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Why not let the insurance companies take care of it?

Sample Letter:

Dear Customer,

Your 2008 Fordolet ElRanchero insurance is due on July 4.

Your new premiums will be $1900 a year.

If you bring in a letter from your dealership stating the 2 outstanding recalls have been done, you will receive a $350 credit.

If you bring in a fresh safety inspection from your state authorized safety system, you will receive a $350 credit.

Sincerely,

Big Insurance Company.

Note that this system requires no official government intervention. Maybe the govt could offer rebates to insurance companies that have the most compliant cars or something.

colorfulyawn > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 14:10

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I support the Germans' "Fucking around vill not be tolerated " approach to this, and think we should do something similar here.

I already see far too many clapped-out shitboxes falling apart all over the roads. Quite a lot of people are too lazy or stupid to keep up with maintaining their vehicles and keeping them in a safe condition. This is one of those situations where, if they're not going to do it themselves, I see nothing wrong with forcing them to do it.

bubbajoe123456 > Phlegminglib 04/17/2014 at 14:18

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Gov't spending in Germany (at all levels) is about 29% of GDP, vs, 24% for the US.

The gap is larger if you look at non-military spending (28% vs 20%).

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.X…

bubbajoe123456 > Auto Guy 04/17/2014 at 14:19

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I would love it if they were doing 90mph in the left lane - they're usually doing it in the right, now middle, now left, now middle, now left again, now right, now shoulder, etc.

Noroxus > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 14:20

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Uh...you do know the US's interstate system was designed after the Autobahn...yes? I mean that was literally their model. It's just that the US fucks everything up. It'd help if they got rid of useless states and moved to one government... that's help many issues.

Ironically, if you want good roads, head to the NE. They're like new there. All the time. I don't know how NY can do it, but pensy, ohio, illinois, etc have terrible roads.

llamaguy > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 14:27

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My dad's F-150 was "recalled" probably half a dozen times in the last 15 years. Only once was it mildly important (rusting spare tire carrier). This would just be a giant pain in the ass here. And the DMV/BMV/Revenue Department would fuck it up so many times.

TopGearNJ > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 14:51

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I'm sure your tune would change if you or your family was killed because somebody else didn't have their recalled vehicle fixed. But thanks for giving us an out for not feeling bad for you: "stupid hurts".

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 15:13

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Why Germany is the only one in that camp, I can't say.

But to start, let me ask a question: Is driving a privilege or a right?

If it is a privilege to operate a car on public roadways, then the government gets to set the rules. Perhaps they should crack down on this.

If you don't maintain your car, the license plate registration is suspended until it is remedied. Hell, throw a mandatory UK MOT in! Some states already have emissions inspections, why not a full running gear inspection?

And why stop there? Why not require spare bulbs to be carried in the car, in case one burns out? Why not be excessively French and require that you carry a breathalyzer with you? Actually, bring two, in case you use one.

Why not have higher fines for things like burnt out lamps, to make the alternative, fixing them, far far cheaper than the fine? Headlamp out? $1000 fine. Even HID lamps are less than $200.

Honestly, there are rustbuckets I see daily that ought not to be on the road, due to the complete neglect of maintenance. If driving is really a privilege, then perhaps it is in the best interest of the public to remove dangerous cars from the roads.

But if driving is a right, and everyone who can afford a car should be able to drive it, then you get what we have right now in the US.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 15:27

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Do people need to be babysat? No.

Do there need to be consequences for failure to comply with the law, for example, maintaining a registered vehicle to comply with a minimum standard (MOT)? Yes. And the appropriate remedy is to suspend the registration until the standard is met through remedy.

crazysaturn > RevCrowley 04/17/2014 at 16:19

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True, though in regard to required car ownership it's some of column A, some of column B. In many locations that's true, but cars are also seen as status symbols and are ridiculously cheap to own/maintain/fuel in the US, so they make sense to own on peoples' dollars/convenience scale. Oppose that to Germany, where people have found methods of transportation other than cars due to the more realistic cost of owning a car there.

homebrewED > StevenG 04/17/2014 at 16:51

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The surfaces themselves may not be different (they probably alter between cement and asphalt surfaces just like the US Interstates do), but the actual construction of the roadway is somewhat different. The Autobahn's base layer of roadway is dug about twice as deep as that of the US Interstates. This results in a more durable roadway, one which doesn't require replacement every 5-10 years or so. But that wouldn't do anything for safety.

There may be some additional safety features that they have on the Autobahn that could be incorporated into the design of future Interstates (I'm not gonna go into all the specifics). One feature I do love is dynamic speed limits. During rush hour times certain section of highway have a speed limit, other times it's unlimited.

Would the US interstates be death traps with unlimited zones? I don't think so. The Autobahn does have speed limits in urban and highly trafficked areas, and unlimited zones in rural areas. So there really wouldn't be any difference there. The only reason I see why you couldn't adopt it here is the left lane law. People here really don't seem to get it. But this is a matter of driver education and training, which we can all agree that most states Driver's License exam is a joke!

Flavien Vidal > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 18:31

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There is a price to pay for having the autobahn and no speed limits. You HAVE to have a good car. Look at what happens in canada or in the US when people are allowed to do whatever they want with their cars and are not forced to have it checked regulary. Pieces of crap all over the road full of rust, cars that would NEVER be allowed to hit the road in Germany or in France.

So yes, sometimes the governement has to tell people what to do because guess what? People are stupid. Controls are drastic in Germany when it comes to cars, because they are allowed to drive at 300kph if they want to, and a defective car can kill you but more important, can kill others.

If people were not stupid, we could live very well in total anarchy. Unfortunatly, it's not the case. Therefore, we have rules. I personnally would not mind having my car checked once a year if it were to be allowed to drive at 300kph on the freeway.

486332 > offroadkarter 04/17/2014 at 18:55

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If it works for germany, who are you to interfere?

486332 > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 19:09

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Dear America!

Please, for the sake of all that is holy, get a fucking grip on your own government, which is still reading all our emails, before you go round and call other governments "police States" for enforcing regulations (which fall into the realm of what a decent governemnt should do.)

Spasoje > DCCARGEEK 04/17/2014 at 19:44

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Being German, they can do that and not fail! In order for that to actually work in other countries, they would need to be more...German, for lack of a better word, in the first place.

Beju > Porthos 04/17/2014 at 21:26

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True story: I was at Costco one day and all of a sudden, nature called. Yelled is more like it. So I high-tailed into the John and there's some sensitive guy changing his little boy's diaper on one of them baby ironin' boards, and don't you know, I slipped on pee-pee and broke two vertebrae which had to be fused together. I'm in constant pain, but by God I got me a $53,000 settlement.

offroadkarter > 486332 04/18/2014 at 02:48

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We're not Germany

486332 > offroadkarter 04/18/2014 at 06:06

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That's your first reaction to well founded arguments?

StevenG > homebrewED 04/18/2014 at 11:06

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The road is constructed that way, but that is a long term cost saving effort. It costs more once but cheaper over its life and better.

The Autobahn has drivers that know what they are doing and cops that enforce other rules than just the speed limit. Education and training, means failing more folks. Some people will never be able to pass a real driver training system, either from lack of ability or inability to take the course enough times. Becoming a licensed driver in Germany can cost more than $1500 once all the training is taken into account. Americans would never allow that, the derp brigade would object to "Govment limteding mah freedoms" and the bleeding hearts on the other side would call it "A cold hearted attack on the poor". A practical person/society would instead provide other methods of travel and realize that if you want safe roads you must limit who can drive on them.