Help: 4th Gen Camaros

"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno)
04/14/2014 at 21:52 • Filed to: None

Does anyone have experience with these? Mostly the 3800 V6 powered ones, since those are the only ones for sale in STL apparently.

Just wanna know things like:

Common issues with drivetrain

How well the whole thing is screwed together

Good mods to do to add more POWER

Fun Factor (obviously)

How often maintenance has to be done to components (Clutch, Transmission, Engine components, etc..)

How good is the stock stereo (Audiophile, so this matters)

Any help would be appreciated, I suddenly have the urge to own one of these!

DISCUSSION (46)

jkm7680 > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 21:55

New stereo is a must.

My Ex drove one :/

wontacceptthis > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 21:56

As a staunch critic of GM, I will say that I know legions of people loyal to the 3.8 v6. I wouldn't want one, but they seem indestructible and make decent torque.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > jkm7680
04/14/2014 at 21:56

Frig. GM usually has decent stock stereos.

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 21:57

3800's may catch fire due to a crappy fuel rail. Happened to a friends Impala a year and a half ago.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > wontacceptthis
04/14/2014 at 21:58

It's been proven the 3.8 could outlive the average human, I just hope it's good in a performance application.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy
04/14/2014 at 21:59

Well shit. Is there a fix?

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 22:02

There was a recall, inspect it, if there's no rust, you should be fine. If not, maybe the best solution is to get a new fuel rail on it ASAP. We have an example of an Impala straight from the factory, which served as a "yard car" at the factory, at the shop at college.

lone_liberal > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 22:02

I don't know a lot about them but I do know they had an interior that wasn't exactly luxurious (I couldn't get comfortable in one which is why I didn't buy it) and that it suffered from more than its fair share of squeaks and rattles. Mechanically I think they were fairly solid.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy
04/14/2014 at 22:04

The ideal solution would be to find a V8, but just in case, I'll ask about the fuel rails.

Aaron James > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 22:04

They aren't very fast but they aren't dogs either. Best performance mod it to buy a Z28. seriously, spend the extra mod money on the initial purchase and get a Z28 it has nice power at the stock level.

wontacceptthis > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 22:05

Well, its no LS1

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > lone_liberal
04/14/2014 at 22:05

I'm not too concerned about squeaks and rattles (you should hear my van) My friend has one and I was able to comfy. As long as they're solid mechanically.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Aaron James
04/14/2014 at 22:06

They're really hard to find in good condition around here! It's unbelievable

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > wontacceptthis
04/14/2014 at 22:07

I don't expect it to be, maybe I'll just have to apply supercharger.

ly2v8-Brian > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy
04/14/2014 at 22:07

Not for these that was the series III 3800 these have the Series II 3800

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > ly2v8-Brian
04/14/2014 at 22:09

Alright, thanks for clearing that up. I was told Camaros were affected too, maybe they were wrong.

ly2v8-Brian > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 22:09

Kinja'd!!!

This car says yes, yes it can

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > ly2v8-Brian
04/14/2014 at 22:10

So first step, apply turbocharger and proper intercooling.

ly2v8-Brian > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy
04/14/2014 at 22:11

Pretty sure it was just the Series III in Grand Prixs and La Crosses. I had a series II in my old LeSabre. Good engine lots of low-end torque and a deep engine note.

Aaron James > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 22:12

I've spent extensive time in both the 6cyl and the 8cyl cars. It's worth waiting or searching farther for a Z28. They're both good cars but a 6cyl reminds me of driving an Accord.

ly2v8-Brian > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 22:14

Indeed. or supercharging. Either way it works with forced induction fairly well.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Aaron James
04/14/2014 at 22:15

Well I'd rather not have that. So the search for a V8 continues.

Milky > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 22:24

No V8 no care. That gen isn't known for handling, so power is its redeeming factor. Don't be that guy and mod a V6 Camaro.

I test drove a slightly modded WS6 and it was stupid fast … just not for me.

Kinja'd!!!

MPA > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 22:33

You should check the local F-Body forums ;)

http://www.mofba.org/MoFBA-sentinel…

https://www.facebook.com/groups/fastlou…

Get an LS1 car if you can - hard to beat an LSx V8 and they respond to mods nicely. My current fun car has an LS2, and I can't believe I waited so long to get a LS powered car.

QCGoose > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 22:35

If you're looking at the 3800 V6 cars ('96-'02, also found in some very-late '95's), unless it's for insurance reasons, your best bet would be to look for an LT1 Z28 ('93-'97). They can be found for nearly the same price, sometimes cheaper, than later V6 models.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > MPA
04/14/2014 at 22:35

I've been spoiled: I've been around LS motors all my life. And thanks for the links!

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > QCGoose
04/14/2014 at 22:36

I bumped my limit up $500 on CL and like 7 Z28s showed up! LS power!

PS9 > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 22:43

Kinja'd!!!

-> Previous 3800 Owner here (not pictured)

Nevermind the engine, the P.O.S. Transmissions are what you have to worry about. On the auto side, the 4l60e is weak as fuck (Mine ate 3rd gear sitting behind A STOCK V6.), and pretty much gives you the middle finger as far as spirited driving goes. On the Manual side, the T5 is also weak as fuck and will get eaten if you go for significant power adders. And the slave cylinder (not sure what it's called, but there's a critical part on the trans down there that likes to fall off) is totally not your friend.

This is coming from a died-in-the-wool Gonna-get-a-LS1-TA-Someday GM fanboy; These cars - especially compared to what's being made today - are giant pieces of shit. Nevermind the drivetrain, the body, interior, and electrical stuff will nickle and dime the fuck out of you. This car was concieved in the penny-pinching era of 90s GM and it fucking shows. We're talking about powerful headlight motors with plastic gear and tabs, weak ass window motors that die ever few years, weather striping for the trunk that won't go one right no matter what you do to it, switches that die and get chipped out of place due to the cheap ass plastic...unless meticulously maintained, expect whichever car you end up with to be in a partial state of disintegration, one from which you will not be able to rescue it no matter how many parts you order. The engines - both 3800 and LS1 - are fine, it's everything else around them that's going to cause most of your problems.

The car will be comfortable for you and no one else. Consider that, if you like to hang with/cart your friends around. Like the 5th Gen that comes before it, it's big in every way you don't want it to be, and stingy with practical, useable space.

Consider the SS. No, not because 'VEE ATES IZ FOR UH MANZ' or some other teenage non-sense. Yes, because as far as one trick pony's go, this is as one trick as they can get, and that motor and six speed are really the only appealing things about this car.

QCGoose > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 22:48

Having experience in the 4th Gen FBody world (used to have a '98 WS6 M6), I will say that as great as the LT1 is, if an LS1 is also within the budget, I wouldn't even think twice about it.

The LS1 is lighter, more powerful, more efficient, smoother, and like the LT1 it welcomes mods with open arms. Look at the LS1 wrong and it'll somehow find another 10 HP. The LT1 is strong down low and has a meaty mid-range, but falls flat up top, whereas the LS1 is strong enough down low but has a very healthy mid-range and screams up top. Its smoothness and more linear power delivery may make the LT1 feel quicker down low, but it's just deceiving as LS1 isn't weak down low, it's just that it keeps pulling and pulling all the way to redline. It's an utterly fantastic engine. Simple to own and simple to work on, it's just another ultra-reliable V8 from Chevy that happens to be great at whatever you want it to do.

Not to belittle the LT1 at all, but the LS1 was just an improvement in every way it could be.

Merkin Muffley > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 22:48

that gen of camaro has the single worst interior build quality of any car I have ever been in, and my father had a cutlass ciera. It is even worse than old ford tempos.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > QCGoose
04/14/2014 at 22:55

I've seen a few LS1s floating around in my price range, but the rest of the car looks like it has been to hell and back.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Merkin Muffley
04/14/2014 at 22:58

I'm so used to shit interiors they don't even bug me. I went to turn my lights on in my Safari and the entire switch fell out in my hand. And the entire thing rattles like no tomorrow.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > PS9
04/14/2014 at 23:01

Sounds like you didn't have much fun with it.

QCGoose > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 23:20

Certainly nothing wrong with choosing an LT1 either. If one shows up in your price range in the right condition, I wouldn't hesitate to check it out.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > QCGoose
04/14/2014 at 23:22

Definitely won't. It's just a matter of my dad getting out there with me to look at the car, because he makes the final decision. Problem is he can't drive or ride in a car because of an injury right now.

Merkin Muffley > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/14/2014 at 23:26

i'm talking about whole panels coming loose. I've been in multiple camaros of this vintage where you have to roll down the window and put your hand on the sheetmetal to close the door because the door interior panels have come loose. No matter how bad you think an interior can be, these can be far worse.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Merkin Muffley
04/14/2014 at 23:30

It's a 90s GM product, I'm surprised the entire dashboard doesn't come loose within the first 10,000 miles.

Axial > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/15/2014 at 01:13

Series II 3800 has a different problem, with the plastic manifold allowing water in near the EGR gasket. I've got a hydro-locked Buick Park Avenue with a Series II 3800 in it.

Also, the Series II does, in fact, catch fire. Oil dripping into the spark-plug wire retainers and then moving on to other areas of the hot engine from there. Recalled in '09, should be fixed. Check for modified retainers.

Axial > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/15/2014 at 01:20

The person to talk to about Gen 4 Camaros is LTIRocks. He doesn't frequent Oppo and he has a nasty bite if you say something stupid while trying to pass it off as fact, but he knows the cars very well and he tracks one.

My experience with Gen 4 F-bodies is that the interiors fall to pieces by the time your first oil change rolls around. That's about it.

jdrgoat - Ponticrack? > Axial
04/15/2014 at 03:02

Kinja'd!!!

Pretty sure that the 3800 Camaros didn't have the same issues as other 3800 cars. The oil fires were, I think, limited to fwd cars. And the rwd 3800s had totally different intake manifolds. I'm saying this all without researching more, but still pretty confident.

Axial > jdrgoat - Ponticrack?
04/15/2014 at 03:29

You are correct that the plastic manifold is only on FWD cars, I had forgotten about that one.

Still, it retains the intake gasket problem. Presence is evidenced by blue smoke out the back on start-up and vanishing anti-freeze. Or generally running like crap.

The fire recall covered all vehicles equipped with the 3800 Series II, whether or not it was a problem on the RWD models, which made for a recall affecting 1.5 million automobiles.

jkm7680 > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/15/2014 at 06:10

It was funky allright. There was a Bose system in the early 4th gens I believe.

Frank Grimes > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/15/2014 at 09:56

you buy a 3.8 you gonna wish you had a 5.7

crowmolly > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
04/15/2014 at 10:53

Basic rundown of the platform:

The Bad:

1.) It shares the same basic platform as the third gen, which means the chassis harkens back to 1982. It still has the cat hump on the passenger side from 1974.

2.) The 10 bolt rear is much-maligned for strength issues as it was originally designed for a Vega.

3.) The interior is typical GM for the time. Cracked dashpads are more common than uncracked. If you get an uncracked one do not fuck with it under any circumstances.

4.) Factory parts are drying up, so certain things are aftermarket-only or not available. This can burn you if you buy an LT1. Harmonic damper bolt/washer combo comes to mind.

5.) VATS can leave your ass sitting in a parking lot. Delete it when you can. Not difficult.

6.) Watch for clear coat peeling on the sail panels

7.) The stock rear suspension parts are dogshit. Stamped steel PHB, LCA, and torque arm.

8.) The chassis itself has creaks and rattles because it lacks a bit in beaming stiffness and torsional rigidity.

9.) If it's a T-Top car there's a chance that they will leak.

10.) Back seat is a joke.

The Good :

1.) IMO GM has always had decent engines. The 3800 has its issues but they are widely documented. The LT1 gets a bad rap for its cooling system and optispark. The early LS engines can have piston slap, weak rod bolts, and undesirable computers. But they all are good performers if they are maintained well. I have driven all of them, some longer than others. The V8s can be 300-350whp cars with bolt-on parts.

2.) It's a 4th gen F-body, so there is a massive enthusiast network to help you on your way. I was a mod on two forums that are no longer around but LS1Tech, CamaroZ28, LS1LT1, and others are still here. Used parts are aplenty and usually pretty cheap.

3.) They can handle pretty well if you replace the stock cost-cutter parts with aftermarket tubular stuff. Subframe connectors alone will beef up the chassis, get rid of rattles, help the t-tops seal, and give you a little better handling (as an example).

4.) You can fit 275 tires up front and 315s out back. Mostly unnecessary but still cool.

5.) It's a comfortable car for the driver and front seat passenger.

6.) Stock Monsoon stereo on some models is not too bad. Not great but then again it is a 90's factory stereo.

7.) V8 models with the T56 get good fuel mileage on the highway. I saw 30's a lot of the time.

8.) T5 5-speed is a fine trans behind the V6. T56 6-speed is solid behind *most* stock-close to stock V8's. You can now build a T56 to hold 1000+ lb-ft of torque.

9.) The 4L60-E (4L60 if you are talking 1993 cars and want to be a dick about it) is a decent trans if it's treated right. The 1-2 shift is a bit zany with the RPM drop but not that big a deal. Chances are you'll shatter the rear before breaking the auto if it's been maintained. A torque converter swap can take some tenths off of your 1/4 mile time.

10.) Later models (98-02 I think) will have a Zexel-Torsen LSD unit vs. the Auburn in the earlier ones.

With whatever you choose, the basic first mod list is cold air intake, catback, subframe connectors, and rear LCA's. Then the next mods depend on the rest of the car- V6 or V8, LS or LT, auto or manual, etc.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Frank Grimes
04/15/2014 at 15:55

That's what I'm afraid of, been looking for a V8 to pop up at the right price.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > crowmolly
04/15/2014 at 16:00

Holy shit! Big list with a ton of information! Thanks!