"AncientOfDays" (ancientofdays)
04/11/2014 at 13:17 • Filed to: 1985 AMC Eagle
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"AncientOfDays" (ancientofdays)
04/11/2014 at 13:17 • Filed to: 1985 AMC Eagle | 2
| 16 |
When I took the Eagle to a shop recently, to see if they could properly tune the carb and maybe make it stop stalling, they said I needed a new (rebuilt) carburetor for over $700.
Naturally my response was something like "aw HAIL no!" and so I decided to let it be for a while and focus on getting it registered first. So I got it registered, and I was poking around the engine bay on the same day and found 3 broken and rotted vacuum hoses. How could the shop have possibly missed them? I'm not sure, but I went down to O'Reilly and got two feet of this stuff:
Once the hoses were replaced, it ran 10 times better and only stalls rarely now, and never if the A/C is off. No longer do I have to use my special, patent-pending, Anti-Stall braking technique. A HUGE improvement. For $0.84. Not $700. Zero Benjamins.
Moral of the story: never blindly trust a shop. It's not their car, and they'll never care about it as much as you.
ddavidn
> AncientOfDays
04/11/2014 at 13:19 |
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Yeah, it seems like the standard response to carb problems now is "it'll about $600-800 to replace that carb for you"
RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> AncientOfDays
04/11/2014 at 13:20 |
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New carb for $700? I'd have burst out laughing. Unless it's some magic unicorn sprinkles AMC-only 1-year-only carb, then I'd have a "wait, you're serious" moment, begin crying, and begin looking for vastly-overpriced-but-not-THAT-overpriced rebuild bodge.
Protip: blacklist that shop from now on. They is nuts.
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RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> ddavidn
04/11/2014 at 13:23 |
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Because carbs are magic, you know. Once their magic is depleted, there's nothing you can do. Ignore the fact that "take apart, clean out, replace wear/rubber bits/gaskets" fixes 98% of all carbs ever to have issues. Well, okay, sometimes a hamheaded dolt strips a screw or something. Feh - it's used replacement and rebuild at that point.
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AncientOfDays
> RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
04/11/2014 at 13:23 |
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Yeah, it's a super-common carb. Carter 2bbl. You can get one for like $300 at a parts store. I don't imagine I'll be going back to that shop.
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AncientOfDays
> ddavidn
04/11/2014 at 13:24 |
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But that's the thing - I don't really think it was even a carb problem at all. Not if new vacuum hoses made a 90% improvement.
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RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> AncientOfDays
04/11/2014 at 13:28 |
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I mess with old Land-Rovers a lot, and a rebuild kit for either of their very-specific and wacky carbs is like $20. Mine has neither, it has a common-as-dirt Rochester single-barrel that a kit for costs like $10, and I could harvest from lots of 60s GMs.
Inasmuch as carbs are slipping into memory, I suppose it's not too surprising to see people treat them like voodoo, but COME ON.
camaroboy68ss
> RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
04/11/2014 at 13:28 |
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you never have looked at older Holleys. The one for my camaro at its cheapest for reproduction is 650 and if your super crazy about date codes try 1200 bucks
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AncientOfDays
> RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
04/11/2014 at 13:31 |
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I know... my other thought is that maybe this was a "give the customer a ridiculous quote to make them go away" situation. If I need to rebuild it, the kit is only about 20 bones. So no big deal either way.
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RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> camaroboy68ss
04/11/2014 at 13:32 |
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Egad. I guess it's type-matching that's driven the costs up? I imagine there are plenty of retrofits that are way cheaper, but I definitely see that a ultra-specialized carb in an inflated market might be a little bonzo. I can't imagine rebuild parts are anywhere close to that, though...
Further, an Eagle is not something I'd have expected to have something uncommon, what with the tried and true AMC practice of "loot everybody else's parts bins lol".
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RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> AncientOfDays
04/11/2014 at 13:36 |
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It may be that they were afraid of it - "charge the customer top dollar for a rebuilt to eliminate it completely as a problem, and cover our asses on it cost-wise for when it turns out to be another nightmare issue because CARBED WITH EGR, OH GOD".
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ddavidn
> AncientOfDays
04/11/2014 at 13:44 |
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Well, if there's a carb, that's probably where the issue is. Open hood, see carb, replace carb. You would've been pissed if you'd paid the money (not that you would have) and then the issue wasn't fixed...
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camaroboy68ss
> RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
04/11/2014 at 13:52 |
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no just the price of parts has gone up. Any carb will work but they used a specific cfm Holley on the car. I have a edelbrock but it just so out of place in an other wise original engine bay.
My luck in an AMC would be the other bin they raided was a special bin full of high dollar parts and oddballs.lol
lonestranger
> AncientOfDays
04/11/2014 at 14:14 |
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I'm going to play Devil's Advocate, so I apologize in advance if I come across as unsympathetic. I could also be completely wrong, since I haven't seen your car nor talked to the shop.
I don't imagine that they didn't find (or at the least consider) that the vacuum lines were shot. Just because they didn't mention them doesn't mean they weren't aware of them. It's not their business to help you diagnose your car for you to fix it yourself, and often it's in both party's best interest to keep the discussion simple. Besides, it's not in their interest to help you fix it yourself, nor is it their responsibility to make it 90% better. They have an obligation to make it 100% reliable, which in your case likely includes servicing the carb. If they were to service a car for a stalling problem, and it left the shop still stalling, they could be held responsible in the case of an accident. Maybe so, maybe not, but a responsible shop won't take the chance and do something half-assed, even if only in consideration to the customer, let alone other motorists.
Was the $700 quote for the entire service, or for only the rebuilt carb itself? If the former, that's an entirely reasonable number to cover the cost of supplying a rebuilt carb, gasket & incidentals, installing and adjusting it, and replacing the vacuum hoses. If it also includes servicing & adjusting the ignition, that's a steal. As far as replacing it rather than rebuilding your existing one with a $20 kit, there's no way that a mechanic's shop in the U.S. or Canada could do it cheaper than the cost of a rebuilt unit that's likely rebuilt in Mexico or overseas. The same goes for starters, alternators, and such. Even ones rebuilt here are more economical than paying a shop mechanic's hourly rate.
Lastly, in regards to your statement "I don't really think it was even a carb problem at all. Not if new vacuum hoses made a 90% improvement." A carburetor's function is entirely dependant on proper vacuum. Vacuum doesn't just leak from external hoses, but also through the carb housing itself if the throttle shaft is worn. If so, that's likely where your remaining 10% improvement lies, and it's only repairable by rebuilding or replacing the carb.
Again, I could be completely wrong. But this is how I see the situation from the information you've given.
EDIT: In summary, it sounds like the problem is caused 90% from leaky vacuum hoses, and 10% from a worn carb. However, since 99.9% of the cost is from the carb, it's the issue that was communicated to you in the quote.
P.S. if the $700 figure is for the carb part alone, then yeah, that's absurd.
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AncientOfDays
> lonestranger
04/11/2014 at 14:27 |
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I appreciate your input, and I'm definitely going to keep trying for the last 10%. I left out the fact that the carburetor was rebuilt recently, probably about 2 years ago. Of course, things can go wrong in 2 years, but it felt fishy to me at the time that they would come up with the (albeit reasonably priced) big-ticket item first, and not mention the obvious, but cheap, low-hanging fruit.
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lonestranger
> AncientOfDays
04/11/2014 at 14:36 |
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Yeah, if the carb is that new, I agree that it's likely not as suspect.
I think I edited my post at the same time you replied. If it were me, I'd quote the big ticket item first, too. It's better than saying "Most of your problem can be fixed for under a buck. Oh, and it'll cost $700 to fix it completely, and we don't have the option to do just the cheap fix."
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AncientOfDays
> lonestranger
04/11/2014 at 15:07 |
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Yeah, when you put it that way...
But in the end they got a 1-hour diagnostic fee from me and I have a better idea now of how to tackle the problem. So no harm, no foul, I guess.