Tolls on the Interstate

"KMarino" (KMarino) 04/09/2014 at 16:55 • Filed to: None

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The United States' highway system has been showing signs of deteriorating for a long time. The numbers of bridges and roadways the need repairs is astronomical. The main source of funds to repair these is an 18.4 cent per gallon tax on gas, and it has not been increased since 1993 (gas was about !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! then). One possible solution is to allow tolls to be collected on the interstate system. This would help to pay for the repairs since the revenue from the tax is inadequate and as cars gain more fuel efficiency, the funds are expected to continue to decline. A few major companies are lobbying against this for their best interests. (McDonalds, FedEx, etc.)

We can all agree we need the roadways in the US to be fixed, but is this the solution to paying for these repairs?

Source: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Ilike_cougars > KMarino 04/09/2014 at 17:00

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"One possible solution is to allow tolls to be collected on the interstate system."

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Dude You have never been to New Jersey, the number of tolls you have to pay will piss you off enough to not consider this line of thinking.

TheBaron2112 > KMarino 04/09/2014 at 17:02

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The solution is to properly allocate gas tax funds, rather than siphon money away from this fund, as we currently do. A modest increase of the federal gas tax and a surcharge on all EV and hybrid vehicles is also needed.

The interstate system should not be tolled at all. It is contrary to the vision put forth by Eisenhower.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > KMarino 04/09/2014 at 17:02

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Of course not. Any practical attempts to produce enough toll gating to generate revenue would not only be of astronomical cost in and of itself, but would have the side effect of washing out traffic into local road systems, catastrophically. The only situations in which primary tolled roads reliably collect tolls is when they're the only practical connection between points, and with US interstate volume, particularly on 4-lanes and the like, the practicality of those roads due to congestion would be destroyed with any potential gains at a stroke.

That's not even touching on the emfuckening of commerce, particularly intra-state.

Of course, if you're proposing "fly-by" tolling with minimal actual gates, the proposal is less problematic. Maybe. Still grossly impractical, and more problematic in other ways.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > KMarino 04/09/2014 at 17:05

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shit, I'm fine with adding 10 cents to that tax, or completely doing away with it and collecting it in some other manner. Because, fuck, people that drive electrics or hybrids are not paying highway-tax for the electrically powered portion of their vehicle (in some cases 100% of the vehicle won't pay highway tax).

But that leads us to the troublesome bit, how DO you charge someone fairly and with minimal infrastructure investment. Maybe report your odometer to the feds during tax-time, with an option to pay in throughout the year to minimize a lump-sum payment?

KMarino > Ilike_cougars 04/09/2014 at 17:11

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I never said I think it is the best solution, just the one the being presented. My hope is for Opponauts to find a better solution.

Only experience in Jersey is from Newark to Midtown. There were a few tolls there, but I wasn't driving.

I drive the Lake Pontchartrain Causeway every day. There is another way to go, around the lake, but it adds about 15 minutes to my commute. I've seen much better toll systems in other places that don't require you to slow down as much, if at all.

davedave1111 > KMarino 04/09/2014 at 17:17

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Inflation adjusted 18.4 cents in 1993 is worth 29.9 cents now. I don't know what basis they used to pick that figure back then, but it seems reasonable for it to have risen in the meantime.

BREADwagon > KMarino 04/09/2014 at 17:18

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Why not privatize toll collecting? Private spending to erect the infrastructure, and they get a percentage of tolls for X amount of years. Certain criteria has to be met for the builder, and not necessarily lowest bidder.

As far as the traffic, high speed camera takes pictures of plates, you get billed. No one has to slow down, so it would have no affect on traffic at all. They already utilize this technology for speed cameras....

The physical infrastructure wouldn't be exorbitant, just some steel trusses, data/power line, and cameras. The data infrastructure on the other hand would need to be ironed out for all of North America.

But now we get into how secure that data would be. It wouldn't be too hard to start recording people's driving habits etc. etc. But that's a whole other can-o-worms.

Dusty Ventures > Ilike_cougars 04/09/2014 at 17:20

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U-Haul box truck, towing a U-Haul car trailer. New York state throughway from the Pennsylvania border to the Massachusetts border: $68.80 in tolls. That one hurt.

M54B30 > KMarino 04/09/2014 at 17:30

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make gas $1.18 again and I'd be glad to pay an extra dollar for highway maintenance tax.

jariten1781 > KMarino 04/09/2014 at 17:42

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Only real solution is going to be a mileage/weight tax table. It taxes vehicles based on their damage to the roadways with those traveling more and weighing more taking the hit. It's obnoxious and has legit privacy concerns, but it's the only easy way to do it taking into account the different energy sources that are going to continue proliferating.

SteyrTMP > KMarino 04/09/2014 at 17:51

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I'm at work, on my phone. So I can't get into great detail, but there's one major flaw to that. Taxes, tolls, and fees aren't going where they belong. The government is notorious for dipping into coffers that are supposed to be set aside for one thing, and use it for another. Any additional taxes will a) burden the already strained economy—I don't know about you, but I can't afford 5.50 gas, and b) it will promptly be channeled into some overreaching agency that is already robbing from more important and underfunded agencies. Yes, EPA, ATF, I'm looking at you.

BigBlock440 > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 04/09/2014 at 18:16

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But why should you pay the feds if you do all your driving on state/local funded roads?

bhardoin > davedave1111 04/09/2014 at 19:58

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Except that cars are way more fuel efficient now, so that's still less $/mile = $/roadwear.

bhardoin > KMarino 04/09/2014 at 20:02

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Well the solution is obviously to pay for repairs, its just a matter of where your money comes from. Which, in my mind, should be almost entirely based on how much wear you do to the road. Which is almost entirely dependant on the distance you drive, and the weight of your car. So... just raise the gas tax. You pay $/gallon = $/distance you drive and your fuel economy (fuel economy being heavily related to the size of your vehicle means no stupid complex per car calculations/taxation).

People will whine and bitch, but then they'll either drive less, pay more, or move to Canada - all of which solve the road problem (assuming the funds are actually allocated reasonably, but that's a whole nother problem).

davedave1111 > bhardoin 04/09/2014 at 20:39

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"Except that"

No. Also. Other than that nitpick, good point. But really what the tax has been in the past might be important politically, in selling things to the voters, but, apart from being fair to people who bought cars under a previous tax regime, it bears no relation to what the correct tax should be at present.

Slave2anMG > BREADwagon 04/09/2014 at 20:58

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Nope. Not interested in letting corporations skim money off the top. Non starter in my book.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > BigBlock440 04/09/2014 at 21:17

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because you do any way right now, by way of the gas tax.

BigBlock440 > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 04/09/2014 at 22:00

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True, but then the issue becomes heavier vehicles, unless it's a graduated tax. With the gas tax, heavier vehicles pay more because physics. Also, odometers can be tampered with or stop working, without fuel, you don't move. Though I guess you could run into people making their own fuel.

Thinking about it, I guess tolls are probably the fairest way, but I hate tolls. Just something about pulling cash out of your wallet right then and there.

bhardoin > davedave1111 04/09/2014 at 22:19

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Yeah, I'd agree that "also" is better wording.

Something about this reminds me of some study I read, reported by NPR if I remember right; the study showed that if you ask people if "X issue" should be more funded they will answer overwhelmingly "yes," but if you ask the same people they will rarely want increased taxes to pay for it. Deficit spending in a nutshell.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > BigBlock440 04/10/2014 at 08:10

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Haha yeah, it sucks! It also wastes fuel as you stop to pay a toll and accelerate again, unless you have a transponder gizmo.

KMarino > bhardoin 04/10/2014 at 09:34

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How do you properly tax cars that don't use gas? Electrics and hybrids still put wear and tear on the road. A Tesla weighs more than a Shelby GT500, but the Tesla despite putting more wear on the road, will pay fewer taxes.

Ilike_cougars > Dusty Ventures 04/10/2014 at 09:52

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I had to drive a U haul box truck from Newark to Pittsburgh, 2 weeks ago, the Penn Turnpike is highway robbery, $38 dollars and some change. It was a good thing my car wouldnt fit on the trailer.

Ilike_cougars > KMarino 04/10/2014 at 10:04

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I used to stay close to Newark and used to commute to the city on occasion by car, here is the general break down. I-95: $2.50, Lincoln Tunnel/Holland Tunnel: $13. So essentially that is $15 every day, and there is no cheaper way across by car. Getting down to Atlantic city from where I was: Garden State Parkway : $8, If I wanted to go to Philly GSP $5 and $6 bridge toll. I dont know about you but I cant pay tolls this high on a daily basis, yet the roads around NJ are terrible as it, made worse by the bad winter we had.

bhardoin > KMarino 04/11/2014 at 00:49

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For now they make up such a small portion of the vehicles that I don't think it matters, and they should be incentivized anyway. But eventually I'd imagine that you'll end up in a registry when you buy them, and then part of your car's registration renewall would be road fees.

George McNally > KMarino 04/13/2014 at 20:45

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My opinion....increase the gas tax. Sure, it's a bitter pill to swallow, but one thing in it's favor is that it's fair.

Drive 100,000 miles a year?....well, you're gonna pay exactly 10 times more then the guy that drives 10,000 miles a year. The guy that drives 100,000 miles a year is putting 10 times the wear on roads then the guy doing 10,000 miles.

Not sure how to fairly increase taxes on tractor-trailers-any increase they get.....the rest of us are going to end up paying eventually.