Wrong Wheels Connected - ?

"AthomSfere" (AthomSfere) 04/07/2014 at 22:12 • Filed to: wheels, WWD, wrong wheel drive, drive, transmission, RWD, FWD, prelude

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Quick, name some cars that the manufacturer connected the go-bits to the wrong wheels?

I think the Prelude below. It looks sporty, modern, fast... but its FWD, it looks like it was supposed to be RWD and then someone changed it at the factory.

What other cars look or feel this way to Oppo?

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:14

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Mazda MX-6? Mitsubishi Eclipse?

Harris Lue > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:14

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Every fwd coupe ever...

AthomSfere > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy 04/07/2014 at 22:17

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Pictures man, pictures!

Also, feel or looks? Or both?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:18

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Optional Quattro is a no no.

AthomSfere > Harris Lue 04/07/2014 at 22:18

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Oh, yes...

Because the added cost would vastly improve these:

?

Merkin Muffley > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:18

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should have been AWD, because they could have heralded a new era of rally awesomeness. Just imagine 555 and castrol liveries on these things, going sideways, filthy, with extra lights and a spare tire on the roof.

pfftballer > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:19

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That's easy...

shpuker > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:19

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Ford Pinto

Too soon?

AthomSfere > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/07/2014 at 22:20

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These got the shaft of the Quattro though, no?

Not an Audi fan, but when they do Quattro right it is a damn good system! And you are right, a performance AWD machine should never be slighted.

Übel > Merkin Muffley 04/07/2014 at 22:20

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... I think you might have misunderstood the concept of "lightweight rear-drive sports car"

AthomSfere > Merkin Muffley 04/07/2014 at 22:21

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Optional, maybe...

But WRC / rally almost always custom build so much anyway I don't think it really hurt it. All those Fiestas out there now started life as FWD, if they can rally so can this bad-ass!

Merkin Muffley > Übel 04/07/2014 at 22:22

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Nothing wrong with a rear drive option, but rallycar > wannabe drifter hoonmobile.

shpuker > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:23

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But in all seriousness the Cadillac Eldorado. Would've been a slick(er) ride in RWD with the 4.6L Northstar.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:23

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All I know is is that there's an option for a FWD A4 with a CVT

AthomSfere > pfftballer 04/07/2014 at 22:24

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Some nice'ns there.

Point by point and my thoughts:

Tiburon: They did, it's called the Genesis Coupe!

The Eclipse: By the time they got to that one, the car was done. It is a shame, because the first two generations were amazing. They should have just reinvented it, made it a RWD V8 and put it right in 'Stang Country.

Ew, those last gen Celicas :(

AthomSfere > shpuker 04/07/2014 at 22:24

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No one ever complains about the heaters in those...

carcrasher88 > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:24

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2014+ Chevrolet Impala

Current generation Volvo S60 (facelifted model shown)

1985 or newer Nissan Maxima

1998-2004 Cadillac Seville

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:25

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Sure thing! my father had a 1994 MX-6, he loved the handling on that thing, even though the 2.4 V6 in that thing only put out 165 HP, it was quick.

The looks of both the Eclipse and the MX-6 are very sporty. I want an MX-6 because of the memories of my father's.

The eclipse looks fast, well, you'll probably know why.

AthomSfere > shpuker 04/07/2014 at 22:26

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I can't think of another brand that its parent company tried to kill off as badly as GM and Caddy. It is amazing they survived the 90's early 00's.

Übel > Merkin Muffley 04/07/2014 at 22:26

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Man if only Subaru made an AWD road going rally car for like $700 more than the BRZ. Maybe they could even give it a 70hp power boost for good measure. :p

AthomSfere > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/07/2014 at 22:26

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Ug, we will have to do Wrong Connection to the wheels another time. That list is unholy long!

Jeff-God-of-Biscuits > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:27

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To be honest though, the AC does have a hard time keeping up.

pfftballer > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:28

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See also Acura RSX-S and Integra. Too lazy to image search.

AthomSfere > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy 04/07/2014 at 22:30

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Ah, the right gen on that Eclipse too!

Although, it did come in AWD so I can live with the decisions made there.

AthomSfere > pfftballer 04/07/2014 at 22:32

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Hmmm...

I had/ drove those and I really think they worked better as FWD. Especially the Integra, they way it handled really was sublime for being an econo-box with a sport-themed windshield rake. I loved 'em... But I couldn't imagine them being anything else for some reason.

Merkin Muffley > Übel 04/07/2014 at 22:33

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if only it wasn't a bloated parody of former glory days. Seriously, the new wrx is 3 inches wider and only 5 inches shorter than my old 1998 legacy outback.

GoliathRex > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:37

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Acura Legend. Have a look at the axel to dash ratio. I am confident this was intentional.

pfftballer > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:39

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I had a modded 1997 Dodge Neon ACR coupe that could consistently run higher gs on the skid pad than the two Integra type Rs in our local SCCA chapter on similar tires. (same brand) I don't drink the Teggy R cool aid. It was a decent handling wrong wheel drive coupe that responded well to mods but it should have been RWD.

Übel > Merkin Muffley 04/07/2014 at 22:40

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Yep, cars are getting bigger.

Merkin Muffley > Übel 04/07/2014 at 22:43

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Sure, but so what? Companies still make small cars. Look at the fiesta, for instance.

AthomSfere > pfftballer 04/07/2014 at 22:45

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Let's be honest here: The biggest problem with the Neon was being a Dodge car when no one liked Dodge. They were the underdog in every niche they tried to enter and had a bad time of it.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:45

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Y U NO RWD? Seriously, it would have been soooo much better as a car if that V8 was linked to the rear instead of the front.

BrownMiataDieselWagon > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:46

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"When they do Quattro right" is referring to non-Haldex AWD Audi's?

AthomSfere > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 04/07/2014 at 22:48

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Still would have been just as ugly as Carrot Top in a bikini though...

Übel > Merkin Muffley 04/07/2014 at 22:49

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The Fiesta (a subcompact) has roughly the same exterior dimensions as a MkIV Golf (a compact) :P

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:53

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True, but at least it would be kind of my kind of Q ship. Could make a decent stunt car too. Of course, they're unnecessary now that the Camaro is everything these weren't.

1337HPMustang > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:55

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I once saw a build on a forum (one of the best ways to waste time on the internets) for a rwd corrado and it was epic.

AthomSfere > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion 04/07/2014 at 22:55

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Oh geez I love the Camaro. I just hope the 2015 Mustang isn't too good, or else I may look at those instead / too...

pfftballer > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 22:56

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Shortly after their introduction they enjoyed much success in SCCA showroom stock racing winning three consecutive titles between 1995-1997. Mine came from the factory with Koni adjustable dampers in all four corners. The first gen cars were ahead of their time, but it didn't take long for other overseas manufacturers to catch on and improve their cars to be superior while Chrysler left well enough alone. The second gen cars were boated turds by comparison.

AthomSfere > BrownMiataDieselWagon 04/07/2014 at 22:59

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In all honesty, not sure. The Audis do not spark my interest often. I do read the Audi enthusiasts go on about the TT vs the XXX or whatever and how this system is older but better, but the newer ____ is better still than either.

I probably should pay better attention, but my few experiences with/ driving VW and Audi left me underwhelmed. Maybe I just need someone to loan me a couple and a track to be fair though.

AthomSfere > pfftballer 04/07/2014 at 23:02

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I had abuddy let me test drive his DOHC '96 I believe and I was thoroughly impressed. Not an ACR, but still for the wrath Dodge got from import guys and mopar guys over the Neon I was impressed.

mr2gud2u > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 23:02

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So true. The market is primed for Neon SRT right now.

Harris Lue > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 23:02

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This... 455ci 7.5l "Rocket V8" with 400HP being powered by the front wheels...

Oldsmobile Toronado

because '60s

AthomSfere > Harris Lue 04/07/2014 at 23:04

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Thank you!

I always forget about these because they were WWD well before anyone else was trying to put real power anywhere besides the rear.

BrownMiataDieselWagon > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 23:13

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Audi's marketing language confuses me as well. They call all of their AWD systems "quattro", not bothering to differentiate between Haldex and Torsen systems, and even VC (R8 only I believe). The general consensus is that Haldex sucks.

AthomSfere > BrownMiataDieselWagon 04/07/2014 at 23:15

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Isn't the R8's AWD really just the Gallardo's? Or did they re-do the quattro for the R8 to make it a different experience?

Merkin Muffley > Übel 04/07/2014 at 23:16

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doesn't matter. My point remains that small cars, regardless of nomenclature, still exist. Doesn't change the fact that the 2015 wrx is the chris christie of 'road going rally cars.'

offroadkarter > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 23:22

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The 3000GT/Stealth should have been RWD. The VR-4 was AWD but was AWD based FWD

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 23:24

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Why is this not a mini-NSX? It looks like a Honda MR2 but it's wrong wheel drive with the engine in the wrong place!

BrownMiataDieselWagon > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 23:25

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Yes, I believe they're the same/ both use viscous coupling systems (except the LP550-2 model Gallardo)

AthomSfere > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig 04/07/2014 at 23:25

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Good car... Wasn't the goal of these according to the big H to basically be all about the T top though?

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > AthomSfere 04/07/2014 at 23:27

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It's a targa, not t-top. Also yes, but why not both? The NSX had a targa. The MR2 had t-tops. Just put the engine in the back and everything gets better.

AthomSfere > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig 04/07/2014 at 23:29

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If only we could fix these old cars and make them enthusiast dreams!

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy 04/08/2014 at 00:09

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I totally agree about the MX-6. here's a pic of my old one

I'm not sure I agree about the Eclipse thought that's always looked FWD in my mind. I think it's too short for RWD.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > AthomSfere 04/08/2014 at 00:13

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with a grinder, a welder, and enough desire, we can.

Übel > Merkin Muffley 04/08/2014 at 00:30

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My whole point is that all cars are getting bigger, so of course that matters. In fact, the new WRX is actually slightly smaller than a MkVI Jetta. Its size is perfectly in line with a modern compact sedan.

Merkin Muffley > Übel 04/08/2014 at 00:32

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but not in line with a modern rally car.

Übel > Merkin Muffley 04/08/2014 at 00:48

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Well, seeing as it's not a modern rally car, that's quite alright. It's competing with the Focus ST and GTI/Golf R, so it needs to be sized appropriately.

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 04/08/2014 at 02:03

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How was your ownership of an MX-6 like? I'm setting my sights on one with the V6.

jdrgoat - Ponticrack? > shpuker 04/08/2014 at 03:25

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Came here to recommend all of Cadillac in the 90's, emphasis on the Eldorado.

Merkin Muffley > Übel 04/08/2014 at 03:43

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you seem to have forgotten my original point.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > AthomSfere 04/08/2014 at 06:15

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I'm going to be a little unpopular here, but anything below the 128i in the 1-series range.

RWD's all good and fun in something with a lot of power, but in a low-powered family hatchback it's bloody stupid. The longitudinal engine cuts into front legroom (or forces the manufacturer to extend the length of the car to preserve it), the propshaft tunnel cuts into interior room and the diff at the back results in a miniscule boot for a hatchback. On top of that, it's difficult in the snow, and if you don't know what you're doing (like most fashion-conscious people who buy low-spec 1-series are) can be dangerous in a power-oversteer situation. Oh, and at low power levels the drivetrain loss of a RWD system compared to a FWD system is really noticeable, to the point that my 187bhp/164lb-ft Alfa 156 can outrun my (underrated) 189bhp/181lb-ft BMW E36 325i.

A lot of people like to think that RWD is the answer to everything. It's nice (but not nearly essential) for an enthusiast's needs, but that's about it. It's also fashionable at the moment in a way it hasn't been since the invention of FWD.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > AthomSfere 04/08/2014 at 06:35

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What car had the wrong driven wheels? I'm going to be a little unpopular here, but anything below the 128i in the 1-series range.

RWD's all good and fun in something with a lot of power, but in a low-powered family hatchback it's bloody stupid. The longitudinal engine cuts into front legroom (or forces the manufacturer to extend the length of the car to preserve it), the propshaft tunnel cuts into interior room and the diff at the back results in a miniscule boot for a hatchback. On top of that, it's difficult in the snow, and if you don't know what you're doing (like most fashion-conscious people who buy low-spec 1-series are) can be dangerous in a power-oversteer situation. Oh, and at low power levels the drivetrain loss of a RWD system compared to a FWD system is really noticeable, to the point that my 187bhp/164lb-ft Alfa 156 can outrun my (underrated) 189bhp/181lb-ft BMW E36 325i.

A lot of people like to think that RWD is the answer to everything. It's nice (but not nearly essential) for an enthusiast's needs, but that's about it. It's also fashionable at the moment in a way it hasn't been since the invention of FWD.

samssun > AthomSfere 04/08/2014 at 06:54

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Mini Cooper. Non-Quattro Audis. Non-VR4 3000GT. Any V6 Nissan. Any V8. Any full size (Caddy, yikes). Any Honda. Any SUV/crossover/"hot hatch".

Regarding that last one, in the same way that the more gutless an engine, the more likely it is to be described as "sporty", notice how a hatch with actual performance isn't called a "hot hatch", only the FWD ones. Z cars, RX-7, Supra, M Coupe, etc.

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/08/2014 at 07:08

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Speaking of legroom, I once sat in the back of an E87 1 Series. I'm only 5ft 7in, but boy was it cramped.

Shady Balkan Subject, Drives an Alfa > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/08/2014 at 07:13

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I agree with you, but still FWD BMW is blasphemy. I have driven 116i and 128i and man the 116 is absolutely dreadful, FWD cars with less power are more fun to drive. I think BMW must have done this:

A platform that can house FWD and RWD in one. Small indexes engined cars ->FWD, bigger one ->RWD and no 6cyl except for the 1M Coupe, which was a very different development.

P.S.How is the Niva doing?

Coty > samssun 04/08/2014 at 07:18

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Any V8? So the front drive V8s should be rear drive V8s and the rear drive V8s should be front drive?

Coty > samssun 04/08/2014 at 07:19

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And don't tell me this should be FWD.

samssun > Coty 04/08/2014 at 07:27

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Sorry, list was implicitly front-drivers that should be rear. Hence the Caddy comment after full size. And V8s meant almost-contenders like the 2000s Impala SS.

ColoradoTaco > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 04/08/2014 at 08:56

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there has been that option for almost 10 years now. Started with the B6

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut 04/08/2014 at 09:08

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Yeah, I'm sure those sorts of seats are purely so you can say to insurance companies that it's a 4-seater to get a cheaper quote.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Shady Balkan Subject, Drives an Alfa 04/08/2014 at 09:19

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It is a little blasphemous, especially as they've got MINI for that job.

We've managed to lunch one of the front driveshafts on the Niva. It was knocking anyway, and we ordered a new one but hadn't got round to putting it on before it just went.

Now I'm halfway through pulling the old driveshaft out and putting the new one in, but it's been raining for the last couple of days so it's stalled a bit.

After that it's just rebuilding the rear drums as they're jamming on after use, and some rust remedy and it'll be good to MOT and drive on the road :)

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy 04/08/2014 at 09:48

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My MX-6 was absolute shit. Far and away the worst car I've ever owned. BBUUUTTTT it was a 4 cylinder, and it just to big of a car for that whimpy engine, and the previous owner/s really wrecked it. I wouldn't use it as a base line to judge all MX-6s.

shpuker > jdrgoat - Ponticrack? 04/08/2014 at 11:57

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Seriously though. They could've been so good. To think the only RWD car Cadillac made in the era was the only one they sold without a V8....

jdrgoat - Ponticrack? > shpuker 04/09/2014 at 01:33

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Take the Catera's Opel-derived V-body, let the Australians make it wider and better, and *some* things can be forgiven. But if Cadillac had been rwd back then, think of all the cheap hooning that we could have now!

twochevrons > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/09/2014 at 09:45

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Wholeheartedly agreed. And you can also have a lot of fun in a FWD car (Alfa's FWD models seem to be a case in point – I recently drove my parents' 156, and came out of that wearing the dumbest grin since I got behind the wheel of a friend's rally-prepped Peugeot 205).

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > twochevrons 04/09/2014 at 10:35

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I've got a 156 myself so I can definitely attest to that :) mine's a V6 so it's a bit front-heavy, but I've swapped in some GTA estate anti-roll bars so understeer's cut down to a minimum. You can lift-off rotate it like a hot hatch :) great fun.

Rally-prepped 205? Aww hell yes :)

twochevrons > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 04/09/2014 at 12:14

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My parents' is a late-model estate, with the 2 litre DI four. I wouldn't call it quick, but it was a thoroughly enjoyable drive. Its a real shame that they don't sell them in the US... I could quite happily have one of those as my next car. That interior...

I've actually been meaning to throw together an opporeview of it for Alfa-starved Americans. It made quite an impression on me.