First Car Search, Part III: It's the beater to buy, but should I?

"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg) 04/02/2014 at 17:09 • Filed to: None

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So, it would appear the Mercedes-Benz W123 has beaten out the Fox-body 'Stang, of all things, as Jalopnik's best beater you can buy. But should I? Specifically, should I, as a first car, be interested in !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! 1985 Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel?

I know it isn't a wagon, or a manual, and it only barely qualifies as maybe a shade of brown, but it does have the legendarily reliable 3 liter, turbocharged, five cylinder oil-burner, and at 118,000 miles, it seems barely broken in. So I know it is cool, I know it is slow, and I know it will likely still be running long after I'm dead. My questions lie more in the details of owning an older car and owning a diesel:

A)What kind of fuel economy does it get? I know diesels are supposed to be more fuel efficient, but this is still a relatively old, relatively heavy car.

B)Is it safe compared to, say, a ten year old Honda/Toyota? Again, I know that Mercedes have always been known for engineering safety into their cars, but this is a thirty year old car. Also, I can't tell if this model has the optional ABS or air bags. If it doesn't, which I don't think it does, how safe is it? If it does, how effective are they?

C) I live in the midwest, so I get winter. What should I know about starting an old diesel after it has been sitting in the cold? Should I use an engine block heater? Leave it on when it's parked? Start it normally? Also, I realize it will need snow tires, but even still, how will it cope with the snow?

D) Is this an expensive car to work on? I know Mercedes' tend to be, but I'm wondering about this specific model.

Any knowledge/advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Audi-os, amigos > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 17:12

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So I know it is cool, I know it is slow, and I know it will likely still be running long after I'm dead.

Hahahaha, you know exactly what I know about it, friend.

crowmolly > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 17:12

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Biggest question: Are you in the United States?

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > crowmolly 04/02/2014 at 17:13

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Yessir

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 17:16

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Im going to try and help as best I can

A) Don't expect anything amazing in gas mileage. This was really before diesels were known for great mileage. I nearly bought one, and the owner said he gets around 25 on good days. So expect right over 20.

B) This thing is very safe just because its a tank. The car will not crumble or fall apart. You could crash it into a tree and there would be a small dent up front but you'd be fine. Its most likely safer than any older Honda or Toyota.

C) Cannot help you as Im a Florida boy.

D) That depends. Are you good with toys and okay with getting dirty? They are simple to work on by yourself since they are old and aren't full of these new electronics. Dealer service or work done by a specialist will cost a lot.

Its a very cool car. And that is no mileage. I know these things go for easily over 350,000. I like it a lot. But that price seems stupidly high. I think you could find a better car (not this model, but any car) for that much money.

Chris Clarke > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 17:17

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Parts are dirt cheap and widely available, but the damn thing will never break. It most likely has a block heater. If your glow plugs are good you probably won't need it, but I use the heater most of the winter any way. Great fuel economy, bet it'll get 30 average. That price is Crack Pipe. I wouldn't pay more that $4000 for a cherry w123.

Chris Clarke > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 17:21

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This is what you want. 240D or a 300CD with a 4-speed manual. These are rare finds!

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/4336624492…

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/4336773450…

Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 17:22

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Likely the best fuel economy you will do is 20mpg, but since its older, closer to 15 er so is expected. As far as safety goes, its a big, steel, car, should be better than any econobox. Driving skill is the best bet for any winter driving, find a parking lot and see what it will take to slide and to stop in icy/snowy conditions. Block heaters are pretty key on diesels from my experience in the cold. You will likely just have to hit up junkyards for parts so that is typically not that hard. Car is pretty Jalop overall too!

crowmolly > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 17:24

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Then I would look into parts availability and repair price. I know it "won the big poll" and it's a great car in the eyes of many people, but you are going to have to hunt down parts for an almost 30 year old Mercedes and you will be paying whatever premium that requires. The engine is diesel however the trans, electrical system, braking system, suspension and bearings and such are all not. 29 years is still 29 years. If parts are cheap and available then there is no issue. I have worked on old stuff for a while now- parts just wear. Wires get brittle. Sockets get loose.

A) Diesels will get good economy if they are in good working order and are well maintained. ANY mpg estimate will be a toss-up. The car's freaking 29!

B) Compared to a modern car it will probably stop poorly. Not "pants-shittingly" bad like a '62 Impala with 4 wheel manual drums, but not like a new Benz. If it's got ABS it will be crude, but I doubt it has it. Same with air bags. Is it safe? In the sense of "you can hit something and be OK", probably. In the sense of accident avoidance in the first place? Probably not. Chances are the suspension is worn out and floaty.

C) I'd guess you will need a block heater and maybe fuel additives. Somebody with a D out your way can better answer this question. As for snow handling it will probably be OK with some weight in the trunk and good tires.

D) See my first point. If parts are cheap and available then it's probably fine. I am sure there is a forum or forums on the 'net that can help with repairs. You will need appropriate tools and such so be aware of that.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 04/02/2014 at 17:26

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Thanks, that clears up a lot! I know that these in general tend to be pricey for what they are, but I wasn't sure on this one. I'll keep my eyes open for cheaper ones. Unfortunately, I am not that mechanically savvy. So, while I would love to learn, I think it would be professional maintenance for this car, at least for a while.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Chris Clarke 04/02/2014 at 17:30

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Thanks for all the tips! You are the second person so far to point out that this may be an overpriced car, so I will likely look for others. That 240 you posted look like good option, but it doesn't say the mileage. Not that that really matters on one of these :)

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 17:30

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They really do hold a ton of value. I've seen them in my area for around $5,000 to $5500. If you could get him down to that, Id say yes.

Sadly these cars are not good learning toys because the parts cost a lot. Im 16 too and just got over this whole first car fiasco! I wanted to learn to work on cars, but decided the German/Swedish were a bit too much for me for now.

I need to find a second car!

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 04/02/2014 at 17:31

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What'd you end up with?

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > crowmolly 04/02/2014 at 17:33

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Thanks, that helps a lot!

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 17:35

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I ended up leasing a Civic sedan for $199 a month. It was the best for my situation. I am sharing a car with my grandma so it needed to be safe, reliable and cheap. Im paying over half (nearly 3/4) and all the downpayments and repiar work on it.

Im looking at this for a second car though:

Yes, I am that stupid that I want a Pacer.

Chris Clarke > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 17:36

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That listing is kind of old, so who knows. As long as the mileage is under 500k, probably doesn't matter as long as its in good shape and drives nice. I've owned several diesel Mercedes, the last of which had over 500,000 miles, so I'll be happy to answer any questions.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 04/02/2014 at 17:39

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Believe me, there is nothing stupid about wanting a Pacer. If there was ever a car that is "so uncool it's cool", the fishbowl is it!

crowmolly > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 17:40

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No problem. Just with a quick search on Rock Auto it looks like parts will be very reasonably priced. If you are good with a wrench then that's covered too.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 17:41

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That rear wraparound window makes me smile!

feather-throttle-not-hair > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 17:43

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Having driven a bunch of old diesel Mercs of that era but never having owned one my advice to you is to try and pick up a N/A 240d with a 4 speed manual. The 300D turbos are still really really slow, and manual transmissions are a) dying and b) so much more fun than an auto.

Honestly if you're going to get a slow as balls car, it might as well be kinda fun. With a 240d you can literally drive with your foot on the floor everywhere without really attracting a ton of attention or breaking the speed limit much if at all. The whole time you'll be banging through the gears, heel and toeing, squealing tires and generally driving at like 9/10ths, all while having a virtually zero percent chance of being pulled over for speeding.

I have only ever owned sports cars in my life (celica all-trac, 350Z) but I would gladly own and buy a 240d as a second car if i was in the market for something else.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Chris Clarke 04/02/2014 at 17:45

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I'll let you know if I think of any others. Thanks!

feather-throttle-not-hair > JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! 04/02/2014 at 17:46

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I disagree with point B. I think we forget just how far automotive safety has come. This is kind of an old video, and obviously the cars are from europe, but I think the same principals hold true

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > feather-throttle-not-hair 04/02/2014 at 17:48

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The James May approach to motoring. I like it!

feather-throttle-not-hair > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 17:58

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sm70- why not Duesenberg? > feather-throttle-not-hair 04/02/2014 at 18:01

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Beautiful

Merkin Muffley > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 18:33

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I'm going to take a slightly different tack than everyone else, and speak from the heart instead of the head.

Whatever you end up purchasing, remember that it is your first car. That means that you will be talking about that car for the rest of your life. Hence, whatever it is should be noteworthy in some way. Some people can talk about how crappy theirs was, or how awesome. For some, it is interesting because it was fast, for some ponderously slow. Some had rare cars, some had old cars, some pretty, some hideous, some common and some brand new.

Whatever you buy, you aren't just buying a car. You are buying a story, a narrative. You are buying a set upon which many important life events will be staged. You are buying memories.

Whatever you end up buying, buy something memorable.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Merkin Muffley 04/02/2014 at 18:37

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I've thought about that. There are many cars out there (Ford Escape, Toyota Camry Wagon, etc) that would be perfect for me in every sensible way, but there is nothing memorable, noteworthy, or interesting about them. There are too many cool, interesting cars out there that are still practical to pick something boring unnecessarily .

Merkin Muffley > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 18:39

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with that said, I paid less than what they are asking for that merc for my 96 Jag.

Agrajag > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 22:36

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Owner of a 240d here.
A) 25-30mpg

B) Yes.

Not sure how to tell if it has an airbag or not, but mine doesn't have ABS and I've yet to lock up the brakes, even in snow. Stopping isn't much of an issue when you weren't going fast to begin with. The 300 is significantly faster than my 240 however. Just be prepared for the the turbo lag.

C)

I need to replace my block heater cord, but mine will start with no issues down to about 10°F. You just plug it in overnight though when used.
I was running well worn all seasons through the winter and had zero issues. Just keep a bag of sand or two in the trunk.
I live on a rather steep hill and would also go out for parking lot shenanigans. Honestly, the best car in snow I've ever had.

D) The W123 and to some extent but less so the W124, are the only cheap to maintain Mercedes. Being used as taxis means they have amassed a huge aftermarket, making parts no more expensive than a Civic.

I did this write-up a while ago, probably repeating a bunch of stuff I already went over.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Two things for this model.

1)The power windows and sunroof are vacuum powered, so if any of those are malfunctioning you possibly have a vacuum leak, which can lead to a bunch of other issues. If any of those don't work, don't let them tell you it is just a switch.

2)The automatic transmission's shifting is controlled by vacuum as well. If it ever develops odd shifting properties it is probably a vacuum modulator or control valve, which are adjustable. Many a transmission has been replaced when it ended up just needing an adjustment.

All this said, for $7700 this car should have zero issues. Suspension, steering components, everything should be in excellent condition. That is certainly the high end for these cars, but is potentially worth it.

Hope this helps.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Agrajag 04/02/2014 at 23:04

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Thanks, that's all very helpful information! I'm surprised to see how well those things hold up in crash tests; even as well-made as they are said to be, they still had less tech due to being 30 years old, but it looks like high-strength materials and padded interior surfaces do the job fairly well.

Agrajag > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 04/02/2014 at 23:07

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The minute you open that door you will understand. It's as if it is hewn from a solid piece of steel. Then the satisfying kathunk when you close the door will make it so you must own one.