Talbot: A Brief History in Terriblerificness

"RaymondStantz" (RaymondStantz) 04/06/2014 at 14:30 • Filed to: Talbot

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I've successfully managed to lose my class today. Before I have 9352 burners calling me an idiot, we do not have a set classroom, and thus we rely on the professor telling us where to meet. She didn't this time. Since I haven't missed this class this entire semester, I've taken the liberty of "skipping" class and spending a lovely and unproductive afternoon on Oppositelock. This is about to get a whole lot more lovely and unproductive.

Today I will discuss why Talbot is the most bizarre of all the modern French automakers.

Before you all think I'm actually quite sane and referring to the prewar exotica produced by Talbot-Lago, I'll have to quash those otherwise "normal" assumptions. I'm solely talking about the Talbot that existed between 1978 and 1992.

About to click away, eh? NOT ENOUGH FLASHING GIFS, RIGHT?

*ahem*

Anyway, I'll begin with saying I have one of these blasted pieces of jun... awesome. I !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! eons ago as an introduction to myself. Unfortunately, as of last month, it is no longer road legal, as it's no longer taxed nor insured. Naturally, having one of these rare pieces of French quirk does make you a tad curious about what else they managed to produce... When they weren't on break, smoking, on break and smoking, lunch, asleep, striking, etc.

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Where it all Started

If I were to write an extended history of Talbot as a whole, I'd be stuck writing for far too long. I'm lazy. So, let's begin right before Peugeot decided to buy up Chrysler Europe and create some of the most thrilling driving machines of all time.

Chrysler Europe was, at that time, a hodgepodge of Rootes and Simca designs. Prior to the merger, in production was the aging 180, the ECOTY winning Alpine, the Sunbeam, the new FWD Horizon, and the Avenger. I really don't care for the Avenger nor 180. We'll conveniently forget that the 180 and Avenger exist, as they weren't much of an impact on the Talbot line.

Fast forward and Chrysler Europe has been bought up by PSA, otherwise known as your lovable, huggable, French automaker Peugeot. There was no clear cooperation between the Simca and Rootes wings, and this resulted in an less than cohesive lineup, effectively dooming Chrysler Europe despite some genuinely interesting cars.

The Cars

Sunbeam

Perhaps best known among enthusiasts is the plain, yet entertaining package that was the Sunbeam. Rear wheel drive, light, and a hatch, it covered ground between grandmother running to the shops and full fledged rally car. The cars didn't last long under the Talbot brand, ending production in 1981. Reliability and quality control was at best completely horrific, but it doesn't mean that a few entertaining models didn't make it out of the factory.

The Sunbeam Ti was an attempt to plug some chili peppers up the Sunbeam's bum. Stripped out and featuring a 1.6 liter twin carb, it produced a healthy 100hp. To say they were good cars was a stretch... Here's what WhatCar? had to say about it.

...we suffered near accidents at traffic lights with both cars (the Chevette HS being the other) thanks to fouling of the plugs - the cars will pull away from the lights only to stutter and near die, causing heavy braking from behind. The only answer is to rev the engine high and drop the clutch as if doing a standing start at the test track, no wonder fuel consumption was high (18-19.7mpg on test) and looks from other drivers disdainful...

That all being said though, they have gained a small, but rabid following of enthusiasts, owing to their rear drive basis. The Sunbeam Lotus that came after it though was a proper legend. I've actually already written about it !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

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1307/1510/Alpine/Solara/It Goes On...

If you've read my introduction, you'd know I have one of these. If you haven't, you should probably go ahead and do this now and bask in my complete lack of grammar and common sense. It's truly not a brilliant car, but it's charming, and that's what matters, no? To clear up name confusion, this is, at least to my knowledge, how all the model names worked.

1307/1308 - Used by Simca in continental Europe until 1980

1510 - Used 1980- in continental Europe

Alpine - All hatches sold in Britain

Solara - All saloon versions

Rapier and Minx - Final year nameplates used across the range

Please note I've probably mixed something up there.

Dare I say the original Alpine/1307 has an attractive shape? Please don't berate me for that. This thing did manage to win European Car of the Year for 1976. IT IS BETTER THAN AN E21. TAKE THAT INTERNET.

By 1980, the Alpine was refreshed and the Solara, a saloon version, was added.

Needless to say, blinding other drivers, let along burning up yourself in one, wasn't particularly attractive to the market at large. That and rust, and crap engine choices, and part availability, and more strikes, etc. etc. etc.

On the plus side? My Solara has always been comfortable, roomy, relatively easy to fix, and, dare I say, truly interesting. It's not a good car, but it's got loads of character.

Horizon

I don't really have much to say about the Horizon other than it was a foray into FWD city cars. It popped along in 1978 and led to oodles of different variations. Dodge Omni? Same idea.

Getting away from the rather boring base model, there were a couple of interesting design studies to spice it up a tad. While Carol Shelby fiddled with turbos on the Omni, PSA had their own push into turbo territory.

Dat body kit tho.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find much information on what's under the skin of it. On the bright side, it's been taken care of at the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Get a plane ticket and check out the place... They have some interesting metal laying around.

There was also a not so successful plan to enter Group B with one using the same engine out of the Sunbeam Lotus placed in the middle. Quattro came along and rained on this parade, essentially pushing all efforts to the 205 T16 with 4WD.

Tagora

This design, at best, is completely polarizing. Personally, I don't find the Tagora at all attractive. However, they were Talbot's push into the RWD executive car market.

Development started in 1976 under Chrysler and the car was ultimately released in 1980. While not a bad car by any stretch, even with the smaller engine options (A larger, 2.7 liter PRV V6 was available if the 4 cylinder 2.2 or 2.3 diesel didn't do it for you), it was far too bland and average to make a dent in an already crowded market. Couple that with boring, drawn with a ruler styling, and an otherwise comfortable and competent car flopped in the market.

Samba

Billed as a replacement for the iconic Simca 1000, the Samba was meant to slot right below the Horizon in the overall lineup. What appeared was something that was actually extremely similar already available Peugeot 104. This car had the distinction of being the one and only Talbot model to be completely designed by PSA, and the last Talbot passenger car to ever be produced.

It ain't pretty.

It's so ugly Clarkson even had a hand at blowing one up.

I don't condone car destruction, but eh, it's Clarkson blowing something up at 2 minutes and 41 seconds.

And then there were Matras...

Here's a Talbot badged Murena.

And here's a perennial favorite, the Matra, Matra Simca, Matra Talbot Rancho.

What Happened?

There was simply too much overlap and not enough success for Talbot to survive in the grander scheme of PSA. Passenger car production ended in 1986 while production of the Express van continued until 1992.

Most development that occurred within Talbot was eventually carried over to Peugeot or Citroen leading to some quirky models that didn't exactly fit into their own line ups. The Talbot Arizona became the Peugeot 309, effectively making a mess of Peugeot's naming scheme.

This prototype eventually went on to become the Citroen AX, although, overall development was not nearly as far along and substantial changes occurred as it became a Citroen. Regardless, the overall shape remains!

Naturally, workers didn't take to well to all of this. Relations were already strained as early as 1984. This ultimately led to some unsavory and violent situations. Poissy, the plant where this video was filmed at, was eventually retooled for the production of Peugeot products, particularly the 309 shown above. It continues to this day building Peugeots.

That is the end of this. I hope you enjoyed this short read, despite my urgent need of an editor. They're not fantastic cars by any stretch, but they're quirky, different, and oozing in character. Unless it's a Samba... Of course.

All photo and video credits to their owners

If you would like a photo removed or special credits, do comment

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > RaymondStantz 04/05/2014 at 18:04

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Brilliant :)

I've owned a Simca myself... :)

Bueller > RaymondStantz 04/06/2014 at 16:06

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My dad had an Avenger, or the version made in Brazil by Chrysler:

I learned to drive in it.

Finally, I must confess that I dug the Solara. I don't really know why, for it certainly didn't age well.

SP23 > RaymondStantz 04/06/2014 at 16:14

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This. I want it. Just for this area right here.

Reborn Pyrrhic > RaymondStantz 04/06/2014 at 16:21

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My Pugs approve this!

I love French cars. People love to talk bad about them due to quality issues, but if you talk shit about French cars is bacause you haven;t driven them. They ooze character, and are some of the most fun to drive cars I've driven.

I had the pleasure of driving a Murena a year ago, and that was an amazing car, with the very odd and unique three-abreast sitting!

I have also always dreamed of owning a Matra Rancho! I had a Majorette model of it when I was a teen, always loved its rugged design. Unfortunately Ranchos rust away to oblivion just by being looked at, and are uber rare to find nowadays. A year and a half ago there was a rust-free Rancho for sale in Germany. The car was a time capsule with very few kms, and the price was reasonable, less then 5000 Euro. If I had the hability to park the car in a climate controlled garage and only drive it on sunny summer days I would have bought it.

Awesome article, more on French cars!

Cé hé sin > RaymondStantz 04/06/2014 at 16:45

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The first car I ever hired was an automatic Solara. (DJT 548Y in case anyone remembers it)

It wasn't very good.

That's an understatement.

RaymondStantz > Reborn Pyrrhic 04/06/2014 at 16:46

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Gorgeous cars! I'd love me a CTi!

Nedus > RaymondStantz 04/06/2014 at 16:57

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Seeing that Sunbeam makes me sad. When I think Sunbeam, I think of the Tiger.

This thing had a V8! A nice 260 right out of the early Mustangs, I think. Then of course, Chrysler went and bought them up, which didn't have a V8 that would fit, and weren't about to keep using Ford engines. So that was the end of that. Bastards.

RaymondStantz > Nedus 04/06/2014 at 17:04

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I've always had a special place for these. Absolute legends.

You must admit though, the Lotus Sunbeam might just be a worthy successor.

Reborn Pyrrhic > RaymondStantz 04/06/2014 at 17:06

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The CTI is such a pleasure to drive!

duurtlang > Reborn Pyrrhic 04/06/2014 at 17:31

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People who talk bad about French cars in general either just have a different taste or use anecdotal evidence. Like you mentioned, many (but certainly not all) French cars just ooze character. The quality of many (but certainly not all) French cars is fine too. Some are incredibly fun to drive, others are amazingly comfortable. Personally I don't really care for Renault, but there are loads of cars by Peugeot and Citroën (and Matra) I'd like to own. At the moment I only own one, a Peugeot 406 coupe.

Bad72AMX > RaymondStantz 04/06/2014 at 18:15

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The Horizon/ Omni is the reason Chrysler divested its European operations to Talbot. It was to be a world car, so Chrysler (US) dictated that the development be shared between US and Euro teams. Remember, this was pre internet and Cell phone, so collaboration was difficult and slower than today, leading to difficulties from the start. Even after that was figured out, the teams could not agree on much of anything and probably wasted more time and money than developing 2 different cars for the different markets.

Initially, Europe wanted and expected full control since they had more experience and stricter requirements when it came to small city cars. That led to bad blood. Then, Metric/Imperial confusion caused issues. The Euro team worked hard to trim size and weight anywhere possible. The US team arbitrarily added overhang to make it look bigger and more American. In the meantime, the economy was slowing and Chrysler was rapidly going broke, so budgets where tightened.

When it was finally done, the cars looked alike on both sides of the pond, but had almost no interchange, even among exterior sheetmetal. The US cars used Macpherson struts, the Euro cars used torsion bars. The US cars used VW sourced driveline, while the Euro car used domestic in house plants. In an odd twist, the US car adopted the Euro drivetrain AFTER Chrysler sold the division, and the Euro car adopted US's strut design years later as well.

Reborn Pyrrhic > duurtlang 04/06/2014 at 18:23

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Renault is the most boring of the French car manufacturers, but still some of their cars are very interesting...

Thomas Cotrel > RaymondStantz 04/06/2014 at 20:03

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The Moskvitch Aleko was based on the Alpine 1307. It was in production from 1986-2003 .

solracer > RaymondStantz 04/06/2014 at 22:32

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Famous in France for being the car Vic’s parents drove in the La Boum films.

solracer > RaymondStantz 04/06/2014 at 22:34

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Famous in France for being the car Vic’s parents drove in the La Boum films.

Jwend392 > RaymondStantz 04/06/2014 at 22:38

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From the deepest, darkest depths of... Whitby!

Comes this sordid tale of speed...
Murderous mayhem..
Cataclysmic combustion...
Picturesque powered pistons...
Accellerating automotive alarms...
Stunningly stupifying stereo stunts!
One man... a dream... a car... a 1984... plymouth... horizon...

I loved the car from tail to grill
I wouldn't change a thing
I wouldn't trade the ashtray
For the queen's engagement ring
But things they started going wrong
And went from bad to worse
The clutch went kinda funny
Then i couldn't use reverse
Still i loved my baby
And would not admit defeat
Just because it left a trail
Of rust along the street
It kept on running bravely
On duct tape and a prayer
Plus a monthly tribute to
The guy who did repairs
It all seems so unfair (the man was glad the day he bought)

Horizon!
Horizon!

Till one day on the parking lot
They called 401
My car became the meat between
A buick-honda bun
I saw some parts go flying
That you really need to drive
My car had become roadkill
Though it never was alive
Left a muffler in the passing lane
A hubcap in the slow
The windshield on the median
A headlight in the snow
And as i skidded off the road
The other drivers laughed
My middle-finger greeting
Would be my epitaph
Death would come at last (here lies the man who dared to buy)

Horizon!

Now i look at my bent fender
The twisted wheel rim
I wonder if horizon
Will ever drive again
But i know that this was not the end
Road warriors die hard
And i signed this mr. iacoca's
Organ donor card
The steel will get recycled
And they'll build another car
Bigger, faster, stronger
An automotive star
My quest will then begin
And revenge will soon be mine
As i drive my gleaming three-door
Orange chrysler frankenstein
Searching for that buick
To try to end its days
We'll settle off the score
And then we'll drive away (the sun will rise again on the)

Horizon!

My horizon!

My horizon!

GBond > RaymondStantz 04/06/2014 at 22:57

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Looks like an uglified Peugeot 604, same platform by any chance?

vermes > RaymondStantz 04/07/2014 at 03:23

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In Finland we had variation called Talbot Horizon Petro that had a dual-fuel engine that ran on kerosene.

duurtlang > RaymondStantz 04/07/2014 at 06:01

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To those interested: there's a very cheap Talbot Samba convertible on Ebay Germany . It's at €556 now.

earlofhalflight > RaymondStantz 04/07/2014 at 06:17

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Modern era Talbot went into Formula 1 with Ligier too.

RaymondStantz > earlofhalflight 04/07/2014 at 10:05

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I actually had this in mind for an upcoming article.

mallthus > RaymondStantz 04/07/2014 at 12:31

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Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find much information on what's under the skin of it. On the bright side, it's been taken care of at the Coventry Transport Museum . Get a plane ticket and check out the place... They have some interesting metal laying around.

That they do. Indeed, some of the most oddball British metal ever can be found there. Combined with its labyrinth like layout, it's close to an entire day out by itself.

mallthus > RaymondStantz 04/07/2014 at 12:33

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Because three across is perfect!

mallthus > RaymondStantz 04/07/2014 at 12:36

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Although being a childhood favorite, it's FWD Simca 1100 base made it the world's first poser SUV. Even the RAV4 is a butch off-roader compared to these. That, and the fact that any actual use off road would dissolve the bodywork like paper make me hate these for tricking child me into liking them.

mallthus > GBond 04/07/2014 at 12:40

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Nope. Not a bit. It's quite a lot narrower than the 604 and was designed by Chrysler to compete with the 604.

mallthus > RaymondStantz 04/07/2014 at 12:44

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I've got a soft spot for Talbot because my father had a Simca 8 (albeit before I was born...by the time I came around, he was working for GM and driving Opels, which doesn't sound that weird until I tell you we lived in California).