The Most Underrated Competitor to the Miata: Toyota MR-2 Spyder

"Elmo" (elmo187) 04/01/2014 at 13:45 • Filed to: Toyota, Toyota MR-2, MR2, Mazda, Mazda Miata, roadster, cheap, fun, cheap and fun

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The Toyota MR-2. One of the greatest mid-engined sports cars to ever come out of Japan. Commonly known in the MR-2 owner community as the Mister Two.

It has had quite a history throughout the last few decades starting all the way back in 1984 with the AW11. Coming with a tiny 1.6L I4 that came in both NA and Supercharged form. Producing a massive 145hp and weighing in at just 2500lbs (2493lbs to be exact).

And as Jalops, I feel it is needed to include with the AW11 the Toyota 222D, which was a Group B rally MR-2 with a 750hp version of the 4T-GTE 4 banger found in the then Toyota Celica TwinCam Turbo Group B rally car. It is said that there are a few examples of this car, but the info is very scarce. There's even a rumor of one being powered by a V6.

Now we move onto the best generation of the MR-2, the SW20. Basically a 4 banger-powered, Japanese version of the then Ferrari 348/355. Powered by one of the most iconic 4 cylinders of all time, the 3S-GTE, it was said to be one of the best handling cars of its time. Of course, us 'Mericuns only got jipped and only got a 200hp turbocharged version while the rest of the world received a 242hp turbocharged version that also weighed considerably less than the USDM version.?

And yet again, because awesome race car. Specifically, it's a Japanese Grand Touring Championship (JGTC or now SuperGT) GT300 race car with a 300hp race version of the 3S-GTE, that also powered some of the Toyota Supra GT500s in the same series.?

Finally, we are at the ZZW30 MR-2 Spyder (also known as the MR-S and MR-2 Roadster). I saw it is underrated because it is not known as that "the answer is always going to be Miata"-type vehicle. But it has all the great attributes that the Miata has. Lightweight, peppy 4-cylinder, great handling and that infamous Toyota reliability before the "unintended acceleration" days. Plus, it also has a 1-up to the Miata. It has the mid-engined coolness factor. Powered by a 138hp 1.8L 1ZZ-FED. Basically a detuned version of the 190hp 2ZZ-FE found in the Series II Lotus Elise and Toyota Celica GT-S/SS II. I know, I know, it's less power than the SW20 and it's not much of a competitor for the previous competitors of the MR-2. But just imagine 138hp in a 2200lb chassis. The power-to-weight is pretty serious. Hell, it absolutely RAPED the Miata NB and NC by being 200-300lbs less than both. But I guess the 170hp from the NC would make up for that extra weight. If you think about it though, you're basically getting a Lotus Elise Series I for real cheap. I have found as low as $6,000 for one with high mileage, but in incredible condition.

And again, because race car.

So my question is to my fellow Jalops, why isn't the MR-2 Spyder considered in the suggestions when someone is looking for something cheap and fun?

Party-vi > Elmo 04/01/2014 at 13:47

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I think scarcity is an issue. The only MR2s I've ever found were rusted hulks. Plus, let's be honest, the ZZw30 MR2 left a lot to be desired in the looks department.

Reigntastic > Party-vi 04/01/2014 at 13:55

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Yeah, not many MR2s were made, especially for the MK2 and MK3. With the MK2 in particular, the most desirable models (93-95) are almost nonexistent in the used market, and were produced in drastically less numbers than the 91 and 92.

It goes without saying that the MR-S is ugly as sin. Why on earth would I choose one of those when I can have an MK2 for less money and more power?

McChiken116 - Patrick H. > Elmo 04/01/2014 at 13:56

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Honestly it seems to me that the first two MR's were genuine sports cars, and the last gen was more of Toyota trying to make a lifestyle vehicle.

Ducky > Elmo 04/01/2014 at 14:04

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i really wanted to get a mr. s, i really did, but at 6'3" and 240lbs that just is not happening now or ever

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Elmo 04/01/2014 at 14:06

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Hell, it absolutely DESTROYED the Miata NB and NC by being 200-300lbs less than both.

lmftfy.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > McChiken116 - Patrick H. 04/01/2014 at 14:31

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From appearances, yes. But drive all three and you quickly see which two have the most fun handling. (Hint: they aren't the prettiest or most powerful ones)

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > Elmo 04/01/2014 at 14:33

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Also, the convertible top folds in such a way that it creates it's own tonneau cover.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > Party-vi 04/01/2014 at 14:36

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With the TRD lip kit they look pretty decent in my opinion.

Also a hard top looks fantastic on them, but have fun getting your hands on one. Only available in Europe and Japan, over $2500 plus shipping, plus mounting hardware.

Party-vi > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig 04/01/2014 at 14:37

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That does looks a lot better!

Pockets > Reigntastic 04/01/2014 at 14:52

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Mk2 MR2s used to be eeeeverywhere around here. What's the 93-95, rev 3? Is there a reason that's better than the later revisions?
They were popular new and loads of them got imported from Japan in the early '00s during the whole importing craze. Up until a couple of years ago you could get a rough but road legal rev 1-2 for about £400 ($600).

Jayhawk Jake > Elmo 04/01/2014 at 15:04

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SO MUCH MEAT

Reigntastic > Pockets 04/01/2014 at 15:29

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From what I understand they're much more common across the pond, but USDM Turbo models are rare.

Rev 2 changes (93+ in US):

Revised Rear Suspension to reduce snap oversteer tendencies, slight front susp. revision, larger 15" (now staggered, 15x6 and 15x7 iirc) wheels, redesigned front lip, introduction of LSD option, upgraded synchros

Rev 3 changes (94 and 95 in US):

Kouki tail light design, kouki one piece wing, redesigned paint scheme to include center trim, skirts, and front lip, passenger airbag (that's a big one), upgrades to the ABS, and slight strut reinforcement.

If you look at production figures for the US, it becomes abundantly clear how few were made. In 1994 and 1995, only 718 MR2s were sold, and that's including naturally aspirated and turbocharged models. Compare that to the 1,742 that were sold in 1993 alone, and the 13,245 that were sold in 1991 and 1992, 9,505 and 3,740, respectively.

'94 and '95 Turbocharged (from factory) MR2s are already the most valuable of the bunch in the used market, fetching north of 15k for a good example, more than double the value of a turbocharged '91. I guarantee that they will be extremely valuable in a few decades.

Pockets > Reigntastic 04/01/2014 at 15:41

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Yeah, I get the benefits of later revisions over earlier ones, but I thought they went up to Rev 5? Or didn't you get those over there?
I guess I ought to start hording the imported turbo ones (which are still pretty valuable although nothing compared to what anything costs in the US), along with saving up for the DC2 Integra I've wanted for ages. I really wanted an R32 Skyline too but it looks like the US is pushing up the prices so there's no fresh supply - couple of years ago I thought about getting one for £6-8k now they're £10k. I dunno, I kind of feel weird feeling like I need to rush out and buy all the cool stuff from my childhood before it becomes a classic.

Reigntastic > Pockets 04/01/2014 at 15:51

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Nope, USDM only got Rev1, 2, and 3.

That's not weird, I wish I had more money so I could snag an RX7 FD, 240sx, and a couple others. I just have a feeling that '90s sports cars will be a good type of vehicle to preserve.

Pockets > Reigntastic 04/01/2014 at 16:01

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Yeah, it's that "Oh crap, I'm getting old! Must hoard!" kind of feeling and due to a couple of dumb decisions I'm pretty skint right now, so I feel like it's a ticking clock before there aren't any of these cars left at realistic prices. I was looking around at buying a car today and saw a 106 Rallye for sale but I had to leave it and get a Corolla. And no, not a cool one :(

Reigntastic > Pockets 04/01/2014 at 16:03

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I've got plenty of time to age, I don't even turn 20 until the end of this month. That being said, it kind of irks me because if I was 5 years older I'd be in a pretty good spot right about now. Time to put hard work in.

You'd have to buy a pretty old Corolla to get a cool one :)

BigGatorChris > Elmo 04/01/2014 at 16:54

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So my question is to my fellow Jalops, why isn't the MR-2 Spyder considered in the suggestions when someone is looking for something cheap and fun?

Because we're not girls?

Elmo > BigGatorChris 04/01/2014 at 17:20

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You do realize the Miata is also considered as a girls' car right?

midengineer > Pockets 04/01/2014 at 18:48

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The 91-92 MR2s were criticized by some for being 'unstable' at the limit so from 93+ they tamed the suspension.

midengineer > McChiken116 - Patrick H. 04/01/2014 at 18:55

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The MR-S doesn't have the best looks of the bunch but I don't think they're terrible either. It does seem to be a rather polarizing design.

Pockets > midengineer 04/02/2014 at 04:13

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Yeah I know that; a guy at work had a rev 1 for his first car as they were so cheap and went sideways into a lamp-post. I just didn't know you didn't get the rev 4 or 5 over there.

saabstory | fixes bikes, breaks cars > Elmo 04/04/2014 at 02:03

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What drives me away is the mid-enginedness. For one, it makes it just seem more exotic. It also raises to limits and makes passing the limits much more dramatic and scary and dangerous. Miatas just make rainbows and flowers when you pass the limits.

Elmo > saabstory | fixes bikes, breaks cars 04/04/2014 at 08:05

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Uh what?

saabstory | fixes bikes, breaks cars > Elmo 04/04/2014 at 09:49

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Mid-engined cars have more grip, and snapback oversteer.

Elmo > saabstory | fixes bikes, breaks cars 04/04/2014 at 09:55

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Not in modern times. The SW20 fixed that issue.

m2m, apex detective > Elmo 04/06/2014 at 11:17

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It's a hard car to find in really great condition ... that's just from my experience, though, and there are a lot of them around. One thing the ZZW30 lacked was good-looking wheels, and many of them still rock the factory kit. Wheels will completely change the look of this car, and with the Competition bits (no idea which markets got them), it looks reasonably good. I'd love to just find one with either the 192 PS mill or – a man must dream, right? – the engine from the Corolla TTE with it's 224 PS attained with the help of a wee S/C.

daender > Elmo 04/06/2014 at 17:45

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It absolutely RAPED the Miata NB and NC by being 200-300lbs less than both.

It also helps having 7-inch wide wheels in the back coupled with the same 15" Toyo R1R "Pixie Dust" tires that NA/NC cars run but better fitted. At a Dixie Tour event (cross-country nationals-level autocross event run by SCCA) an E-Street MR-S beat the second-place Miata by over a second. I would have liked a MR-S but there were none available in my price range with under 100k miles.

mcseanerson > Elmo 04/06/2014 at 17:49

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Double wishbone > strut

Dake > Elmo 04/06/2014 at 18:22

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Was it cost? I'm too lazy to look it up, but how much was a Mister Ess compared to the Miata?

samssun > Elmo 04/06/2014 at 20:15

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138hp in a 2200lb chassis is not "pretty serious". Scale it by 1.5 and you have a 3300lb car with 207hp, in other words the equivalent to adding 500lbs to the already-underpowered Toyobaru twins.

I'd put the dividing line for "somewhat serious" power:weight ratio around 10lbs/hp, and this barely cracks 16. Now, a 250hp turbo 4 would be a whole separate story...

yung bramblepelt > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 04/06/2014 at 20:42

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Thanks. Came her to say just that. We'd all be better off if we weren't invoking rape so casually.

signintokinjalol > Elmo 04/06/2014 at 23:43

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The W30 is a nice little secret, though they are quite rare, they're tremendously fun cars.

The whole "girl" appeal of the car keeps plenty away, which is perfectly fine.

I believe Mike Spinelli owns one, no?

marshknute > Elmo 04/07/2014 at 01:11

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As impractical as the Miata is, it at least HAS a trunk, however small/unusable/oddly shaped. The only way to get even a modicum of storage space in an MRS is to remove the spare from the frunk.

I seriously considered replacing my first car (1995 Miata) with a gen-3 MR2, but simply couldn't get over its intentionally impractical packaging. It would make a wonderful track car, but I could never justify buying a DD that can't simultaneously transport a passenger and a few grocery bags.

Stef Schrader > Elmo 04/07/2014 at 02:51

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The only reason I can think of is that mid-engined cars are a bit more difficult to work on yourself, but eh—if you love the car, you do what you have to do. (Says the person with a living room full of 944 parts.)

Alex87f > Elmo 04/07/2014 at 05:08

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There are several reasons overall.

Looks would be a first one, especially judging by how it didn't age very well. As Party-vi is saying there aren't that many of them out there, and they're actually not that cheap.

In Belgium, a 2004 MR2 will cost you about as much as a 2007-8 MX-5.. It's not bad, I'd simply rather have the MX-5.

David Phillpotts > BigGatorChris 04/07/2014 at 05:34

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MR2 is far from being a girls car. Impossible to drive with shoes with heels and no mirrors on the shades.

Mercwri > mcseanerson 04/07/2014 at 08:29

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The two are not mutually exclusive terms...

Elmo > Stef Schrader 04/07/2014 at 11:16

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They aren't difficult at all to work on. These cars actually have about as much space in the engine bay as a small FWD compact do.

It's not as hard as working on a Porsche Boxster, in which you have to remove the seats in order to work on the engine.

Stef Schrader > Elmo 04/07/2014 at 12:43

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Never seen in there. I, like many others, know of other mid-engined shenanigans and simply assume it must be a pain. That looks...not so bad, really.

tehkav > Elmo 04/08/2014 at 20:15

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You lost me at "RAPED". Thanks, bro.

Elmo > tehkav 04/09/2014 at 09:57

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If you're offended by just that word, then you should probably get off the internet.

Daspyda > Dake 04/09/2014 at 22:14

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When they were released in 2000, they were MSRP'd at $24,995.

Tassie Lorenzo > Elmo 09/07/2015 at 11:20

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The automated manual sequential is an issue. AFAIK in Australia this is the only transmission available with the Spyder.

Niko Bellic > tehkav 08/18/2016 at 00:30

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TRIGGERED

This guy > Elmo 01/26/2017 at 12:33

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Nb chassis is for girls