My solution to the pothole problem

"Just wear your damn mask..." (jimal) 03/11/2014 at 10:04 • Filed to: Infrastructure

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Caution: I'm not an engineer, so don't look for a lot of science or detail behind this.

Potholes suck, particularly in areas hit especially hard by our current but soon to be past winter. I've already replaced one wheel as a result of hitting a particularly heinous pothole on the highway, one that took out more than a dozen cars a couple Sundays ago.

From my basic understanding, potholes are caused by a failure of the road surface that allows water to leak between layers of asphalt. The water freezes in the winter, expanding and cracking the surface, which then crumbles as vehicles pass over it. It is particularly bad in places where there are multiple layers of asphalt. Here in Connecticut for example, they grind down the old roadway to give the new asphalt something to bite to, but water still finds a way of getting in there.

My ingenious solution? Schluter DITRA, or a variation for this purpose.

If you've watched any home improvement programs, you're probably familiar with this stuff. If you're not, what it does is create a moveable base between a subfloor and the finished floor that allows for expansion and movement of different underlying materials without the tile or grout cracking.

My idea is to use a system like this between the old and new layers of asphalt when repaving a road, or between the new layers on a new road. As long as the roadway can be made watertight, I would think that the system would allow the top layer to move independent of the bottom layers, to a certain extent. Better yet would be to build drainage into this middle layer so that if water did get in there it could drain harmlessly out instead of puddling and heaving when frozen.

Would it work? I have no idea, I'm not an engineer. But I think something like this could. Sure it would make it more expensive upfront to pave or repave a road, but my theory is that the roadway would last a lot longer, so you make up your upfront costs with lower maintenance costs.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Just wear your damn mask... 03/11/2014 at 10:08

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Compression strength: tricky. Between layers, with different compressive properties than the asphalt and the asphalt in thin layers, it'd cause cracking the first time an 18-wheeler came by. Also, since the asphalt is somewhat permeable in new layers, you'd get moisture down to the sublayer, and crack the whole thing off at once in a freeze.

Party-vi > Just wear your damn mask... 03/11/2014 at 10:11

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Wouldn't work. Asphalt can't move or it will start to crack. The reason we get potholes on seemingly new roads is because of improper base layer preparation and tack coat adhesion. If the contractor misses any spots when applying the tack coat (bond coat to adhere the old base asphalt with new asphalt) those spots will eventually pop. Unfortunately the warranty on most construction projects is only 1 year after completion, and it usually takes just a bit longer for these spots to pop and the road to start deteriorating. If we wouldn't be such cheap bastards and go with 2" superpave mixes our roads might be in better shape.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Just wear your damn mask... 03/11/2014 at 10:13

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What about using that repurposed rubber stuff that they're making tracks out of now? Would that be able to deal better with the contraction and expansion of water?

Just wear your damn mask... > Party-vi 03/11/2014 at 10:15

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The idea is that the whole top coat would float, not just parts of it. It isn't movement that gets your per say, it's that water gets in there and pops small areas when it freezes.

Squid > Just wear your damn mask... 03/11/2014 at 10:15

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I think the main issue is just lazy workers improperly laying down the asphalt. But then again I don't live in a horrid winter area, but the roads around me are shit nonetheless. Having the movable base would end up causing issues I would think, just because of the vibrations of large vehicles causing the whole surface to move and eventually buckle. I think that getting an even pour of the asphalt and increasing the overlap between slabs being laid down would probably help with this issue. Or maybe just digging up the pothole prone roads and re laying them down after a good foot of proper drainage laid beneath and switching to a porous asphalt that allows the water to drain through it into the ground.

DatBomb > Just wear your damn mask... 03/11/2014 at 10:19

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Unions will lobby against it as roads that don't fail will take away from their jobs. Its always the case because America.

Frank Grimes > Just wear your damn mask... 03/11/2014 at 10:21

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grind up tires and old nikes and glue em into the pot hole. Like those rubber playground surfaces that protect billys brain when he jumps off the swings.

DatBomb > Party-vi 03/11/2014 at 10:22

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Its the Unions who indirectly lobby to have crappy road condition in order to maintain job security.

Just wear your damn mask... > Squid 03/11/2014 at 10:26

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The top coat would still be attached to the undercoat(s), but it would be allowed to move independently. The problem happens whenever you have more than one coat of asphalt.

Party-vi > Just wear your damn mask... 03/11/2014 at 10:27

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Top coat is 2.5" compacted down to 2.0". You can't achieve that level of compaction without a solid base layer. Also, if the top coat float, imagine an 80,000 tractor trailer braking to come to a stop - that's 80,000lb spread over 18 tiny contact patches pulling on the surface of the road. You've seen the ripples at high-traffic intersections; larger vehicles would tear the road apart. It's a novel idea, but unfortunately the material used for road building won't allow for it. The solution to potholes is more stringent specifications and quality control when installing the road and proper repair techniques. Cold patch is not a solution for potholes but unfortunately most municipalities seen to think it is.

Just wear your damn mask... > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 03/11/2014 at 10:27

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For the top surface? Hmm...

Just wear your damn mask... > Party-vi 03/11/2014 at 10:29

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No kidding. They come by here almost weekly and patch the holes, many of which have snow melt in them.

Party-vi > DatBomb 03/11/2014 at 10:30

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Yeah no - unions don't write specifications. Engineers that answer to penny-pinching clients write specifications. Besides, when the state and local governments don't have any money to pay for asphalt repair job security doesn't mean anything.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Just wear your damn mask... 03/11/2014 at 10:31

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For either the top layer or in between the layers

Party-vi > Just wear your damn mask... 03/11/2014 at 10:34

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Every time I see a patch crew working I sigh, because I know in a few months I'll see them as the same spot again.

Just wear your damn mask... > Party-vi 03/11/2014 at 10:35

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Months, days, whatever. Unless you can seal the hole all you're doing is making more work for yourself later.

pdx107 > Just wear your damn mask... 03/11/2014 at 10:54

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Easy solution - Dont use asphalt, use concrete. Several roads in Reno (namely Center Street) were done in concrete and there were no potholes at all on those stretches

Krieger (@FSKrieger22) > Just wear your damn mask... 03/11/2014 at 10:54

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I remember hearing that they thought of using Silly Putty to plug potholes. I suppose that's cheaper...

jkm7680 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 03/11/2014 at 11:14

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Good idea, recycled tires are shredded up and used for trails. If they were hardened, then it would make a cheap pot hole fixer.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > jkm7680 03/11/2014 at 11:22

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jkm7680 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 03/11/2014 at 11:24

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Haha, also Jc is opposed to manual labour.

I wondered if it would actually work though?

davedave1111 > pdx107 03/11/2014 at 11:38

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Concrete's a lot louder to drive on.

pdx107 > davedave1111 03/11/2014 at 11:40

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really? the stuff in reno was damn near silent.

davedave1111 > pdx107 03/11/2014 at 11:46

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Reno's in the desert, right? Maybe it's to do with grooving it for wet traction or something. We have some concrete-surfaced motorways here, and they're noticeably louder to drive on.

pdx107 > davedave1111 03/11/2014 at 11:47

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High desert, in a valley at 4500 feet.

davedave1111 > pdx107 03/11/2014 at 11:57

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A bit of googling suggests that the noise from concrete roads is to do with patterning introduced to increase wet weather grip, so I guess that could be it. A few sources said that modern concrete surfaces aren't as noisy, but then there;s this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan…