Diesel Hybrid?

"All Motor Is Best Motor" (acidicheartburn)
03/02/2014 at 23:39 • Filed to: None

So considering that diesel engines are used to run generators of all kinds, like those found in trains and backup generators for buildings, why haven't there been any/many diesel hybrids for cars? It seems like the perfect combination to me. Clean diesels already get some of the best MPG's out of any cars on the road (being used in direct drive configuration, no less), and people who buy electric cars and hybrids generally don't care about how their car sounds so that can't really be a factor.

The Chevy Volt seems like a prime opportunity to have a diesel hyrbid car. The engine currently in the car already functions as a range extender, so wouldn't a diesel engine have been a better choice? So why wasn't this done or tried by another auto maker? Is it simply a matter of the American public not being very receptive of diesels on top of the fuel's price premium over gasoline? Or is it something more technical like weight or heat? Maybe I'm naive or missing some obvious reason but I cannot think of any.

Here the picture I'm using as my background for your time.

DISCUSSION (20)

Thisnewformatisrubbish > All Motor Is Best Motor
03/02/2014 at 23:42

Diesels dont like constant stop start cycling.

HammerheadFistpunch > All Motor Is Best Motor
03/02/2014 at 23:43

Volvo has a great one, the problem is:

Clean diesel is expensive

Hybrid parts are expensive.

All Motor Is Best Motor > Thisnewformatisrubbish
03/02/2014 at 23:43

I'm kind of assuming batteries would be used in conjunction with the diesel engine so that wouldn't be an issue.

All Motor Is Best Motor > HammerheadFistpunch
03/02/2014 at 23:45

I was pretty sure there was one out there, I just couldn't remember who had it, and I couldn't be bothered to go look, so thankyou. I'm still wondering why this hasn't been attempted yet. So price seems to be the biggest issue, then?

HammerheadFistpunch > All Motor Is Best Motor
03/02/2014 at 23:50

well there are lots of smaller issues, but the cost is the big one. A small diesel in the US is a $2500 premium and being a hybrid is about a $2500 premium. $5000 on a $20-30 grand car is a tough pill to swallow.

Thisnewformatisrubbish > All Motor Is Best Motor
03/03/2014 at 00:04

http://papers.sae.org/2000-05-0316/

Cold start emissions.

efme > HammerheadFistpunch
03/03/2014 at 00:07

math makes sense... until you realize a volt is somehow priced at 40k

HammerheadFistpunch > efme
03/03/2014 at 00:09

yeah, when its a plugin (where diesel hybrid makes most sense and where the volvo is) it gets even crazier.

All Motor Is Best Motor > Thisnewformatisrubbish
03/03/2014 at 00:10

How would this be different than any other diesel engine, that respect? Every diesel engine has to go through "cold start" regardless of if it is going to be charging a battery or not. If you take the Chevy volt and it has a 35 mile range on batteries alone, after which the diesel engine kicks in, and it is driven for 50 miles nonstop, the engine's only had to start once. If you had just a diesel engine vehicle and drove the same 50 miles also nonstop, both of them would have gone through cold start once, so this would be no different. Actually, there's the potential for less cold starts in a range-extender setup with plugin charge capability.

All Motor Is Best Motor > HammerheadFistpunch
03/03/2014 at 00:14

That's what I mean, though. A diesel engine in the volt to replace it's gas engine makes a lot of sense, MPG wise. Diesels are a lot better at constant low rpm work than gas engines are (hence their use as generators) so aside from cost, it really would make a lot of sense. I'm just surprised BMW or Mercedes hasn't come out with anything like this. Of all the car makers low-volume Volvo is the first? Strange.

Thisnewformatisrubbish > All Motor Is Best Motor
03/03/2014 at 00:39

Most commuters dont drive nice solid chunks. 5 miles here, 10 miles there. Real life isnt kind, neither are american drivers of hybrids.

All Motor Is Best Motor > Thisnewformatisrubbish
03/03/2014 at 00:44

Again, how is this different than a normal diesel doing the same thing? And again , the inclusion of a battery and electric-only mode might even reduce the number of cold starts. You're also forgetting that say, if someone runs into the grocery store for 15 minutes their engine isn't going to be doing any cold starting when they get back and start it up again.

Thisnewformatisrubbish > All Motor Is Best Motor
03/03/2014 at 00:47

By all means, go build one.

All Motor Is Best Motor > Thisnewformatisrubbish
03/03/2014 at 00:57

No need to be a dick, I'm just trying to have a reasonable conversation.

Happy Panda > All Motor Is Best Motor
03/03/2014 at 02:00

PSA also has one, but they do Diesel FWD with electric motors on the rear wheels (Hybrid4), but that one could apparently use getting some software issues worked out

duurtlang > Happy Panda
03/03/2014 at 05:34

I think PSA was first with a mass produced diesel hybrid. Peugeot 508 and Citroën DS5 if I recall correctly. But like you said, reviews state that it was released a bit too soon and doesn't drive as smooth as a normal diesel in those cars.

duurtlang > All Motor Is Best Motor
03/03/2014 at 05:40

They're actually the second. PSA (Peugeot/Citroën) was first in 2011 with the DS5 and Peugeot 508. It's not a great system though, unless you're in constant stop and go traffic you're better off with one of the regular diesel engine options they're available with.

Kinja'd!!!

shop-teacher > All Motor Is Best Motor
03/03/2014 at 07:36

I'm thinking cost is a big reason, coupled with the bad image diesels have in the US (which is thankfully fading).

I'd like to see a small turbine as a range extending generator in a Volt. Turbines are simple, light, and work best at a constant RPM.

Jayhawk Jake > All Motor Is Best Motor
03/03/2014 at 08:34

You're not right, but you aren't wrong either.

This is the sort of diesel hybrid's need for power generation:

Kinja'd!!!

A microturbine generator would be great. You could make it reasonably quiet, it's impossibly smooth, very compact, creates lots of energy, and can run on anything a diesel can run on.

Thisnewformatisrubbish > Jayhawk Jake
03/03/2014 at 19:29

FAP.