". ." (xllx)
02/24/2014 at 11:49 • Filed to: oppositelock
0
33|
". ." (xllx)
02/24/2014 at 11:49 • Filed to: oppositelock | 0
| 33 |
Ages ago I made a post titled !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Discussions were had and all was good, so why not try it the other way round? Let's try to think of European cars that would be a major pain in the bum to use on the fatter side of the great pond.
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
Cars made by European companies for the European market have a fair share of characteristics an average American buyer would probably find peculiar. That's still the case even now, in the age of globalised model ranges. Even in the same car bought in two different places you'll often find completely different drivetrains, suspension setups, body styles and equipment.
To give a few simple rules:
- let's stick to relatively modern cars (not older than 20 years)
- only post cars made by European companies that were never sold in America
- support your claims
And please don't list cars that you just don't like. I'm looking for vehicles that would simply be too impractical, confusing, difficult to operate, etc. for American buyers to ever be interested in them.
> . .
02/24/2014 at 11:52 |
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If Americans think the Aztek is fugly, how would they feel about the Multipia?
911e46z06
> . .
02/24/2014 at 11:52 |
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Basically anything and everything that is tiny and under-powered. You can deal with a 1L engine if you're tooling around the narrow, cobbled streets of Carcassonne, but try merging onto I-40 and you're going to get flattened by a semi.
Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
> . .
02/24/2014 at 11:52 |
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Not trying to be a troll here.. but... any manual subcompact from europe..?
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>
02/24/2014 at 11:53 |
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I like the Multipla. It has huge amounts of charm. If I were looking for a small cheapo van it'd be my first choice.
505Turbeaux
> . .
02/24/2014 at 11:53 |
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Peugeot 1007
1st reason, because Peugeot
2nd reason, because sliding doors
3rd reason, because weird and Peugeot
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> 911e46z06
02/24/2014 at 11:54 |
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That argument always baffles me. It's not like we don't have motorways full of lorries in Europe. And while small city cars are not great outside of towns they are perfectly capable of driving on dual carriageways.
Frank Grimes
> . .
02/24/2014 at 11:56 |
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multiple wheels for each day of the week
> . .
02/24/2014 at 11:57 |
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TATA Nano
too small and too slow
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> 505Turbeaux
02/24/2014 at 11:58 |
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he 1007 would have been a much, much better car if the sliding doors weren't fully electric. They made it ridiculously heavy. Underneath it's just a C2 which is a decent platform.
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> multiple wheels for each day of the week
02/24/2014 at 11:59 |
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And not European.
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Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
> Frank Grimes
02/24/2014 at 11:59 |
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WTF? DirtCross in Smartcars? Awesome :)
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Frank Grimes
> Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
02/24/2014 at 12:00 |
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I think snowplows.
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Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh
> 505Turbeaux
02/24/2014 at 12:00 |
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Yeah.. I love that car, stupid as F/(K, but I love it. Not a great car in the US tho'I guess.
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> Frank Grimes
02/24/2014 at 12:02 |
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Those don't look very official.
carcrasher88
> . .
02/24/2014 at 12:08 |
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Take your pick of anything here.
They're small, French (apparently now owned by Polaris, an American company), and they all have 0.4L diesel 2-cylinder engines with a whopping 5 hp (you can get more power out of a riding lawn tractor/garden tractor) and a CVT!
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> carcrasher88
02/24/2014 at 12:10 |
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To be fair, they don't work in most places in Europe either. Microcars are way too expensive, way too small, and way too slow to use anywhere outside of cramped towns of southern Europe. Wherever there's a modicum of space those things are pretty much only owned by teenagers who are too young to drive proper cars.
EL_ULY
> . .
02/24/2014 at 12:12 |
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For $17,000 USD, I'd take a small fleet of cheap V8 panthers or trucks over a small FWD hatchback any day!
I just got back from Mexico DF this weekend. Small Peugeot, Renault, Seat, VW hatchback everywhere. My rental car was a Seat Ibiza or something like that. Holy shit was it slow and cheapo. I'd easily take a new Corolla over it. Not everyone lives in a compact and small centralized city like Mexico DF, London, Tokyo and NYC. Hell, you don't even really need a car in those places. But here in my city of 600sq/miles (1553 sq/km) we need our cars and truck. Small hatchbacks at city speeds make sense in those other cities. We move about this huge country and take a lot of things with us.
FYI, there are fat asses everywhere.
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> EL_ULY
02/24/2014 at 12:13 |
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The fat side of the pond bit was obviously a joke.
V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me!
> . .
02/24/2014 at 12:16 |
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I'm remiss of the laws on "Lorries" outside of Britain. Are they speed limited in other European nations as well? They aren't in the U.S. I've seen plenty of vehicles with a GVWR of 80,000 pounds (and the weigh stations find them overweight more often then you would want to know) traveling at speeds of or in excess of 80 MPH (128.8KPH). I'm not saying it's legal to do this. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying IT HAPPENS. Something similar in size and power to a Japanese kei car would be a harrowing ride on I-95 on the east coast. Let's not even mention the Pennsylvania Turnpike; where if you're traveling 80 MPH (speed limit is officially 65) there is a good chance there is a person behind you flashing their high beams because you're not doing 90+
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> V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me!
02/24/2014 at 12:20 |
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In theory they have to be limited all over Europe. The problem is that lorries coming from some of the eastern countries (especially Lithuania and Latvia from my experience) often have those limiters taken off. It's not a rare sight to see ones going considerably quicker than they're allowed.
Texican
> . .
02/24/2014 at 12:20 |
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In the US, there are many places with a very short ramp connecting the 35mph feeder road with the 70mph highway. I used to own a beater Westie that I considered dangerously slow. It had trouble reaching 45mph by the time it needed to merge. Not ok.
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> Texican
02/24/2014 at 12:22 |
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I've seen a few similarly weird ramps in the UK. It's not an uniquely American thing.
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911e46z06
> . .
02/24/2014 at 12:34 |
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I haven't driven many tiny city cars, but I've been a passenger on many occasions, mostly in Europe. These are my observations.
In Europe, there are lots of old, narrow roads. Parking is often a problem. Gas is expensive. Generally speaking, people tend to stay closer to home in Europe, and when they don't, they usually have the option of taking a train. The freeways are generally better-designed, with longer on-ramps. Drivers in Europe are much more conscious of proper lane etiquette. It can still be sketchy getting on the freeway in a tiny car, and you're not going to be passing anyone once you're on, but the trade-off is worth it for the convenience and the gas savings.
In the US, outside of New York, San Francisco, and the like, we have nothing but space. Huge roads, plenty of parking. Gas is cheap. Since everything is so spread out and there's no public transportation, everyone drives everywhere, and usually that means taking the freeway. Many of our on-ramps are much too short, and many have shitty visibility, so you can't see what's happening on the freeway until you're just about to merge. Drivers here are much more prone to exercising their right-of-way just because they can, even when they could easily just move over a lane to make your life easier. And everyone speeds all the time. It's worse than Europe, and if you can't get up to speed before you merge in (and 1L won't usually get you there), it's going to be uncomfortable for you, and you're going to be in the way. It's nice to save money on gas, but other than that, city cars don't give you the same advantages here as they do in Europe, and frankly, it just isn't worth the drawbacks.
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multiple wheels for each day of the week
> . .
02/24/2014 at 12:46 |
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but sold in Europe
I know who makes it and where I have sat in one in the country of origin
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Texican
> . .
02/24/2014 at 12:48 |
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Maybe it's one of those things that must be experienced. Before I took it apart to swap motors, I put 30,000 miles on a 90hp/2800# Volvo. In the countryside it was 100% fine, but you had to be really on it in the city. The Westy had similar weight with 70hp (maybe) and that was unsafe in several circumstances. Sometimes you need a *little* power to get out of a spot! We get by fine with 1.5L motors (my old Civic was great!), but 1.0L is pushing it. Maybe the new class of 3 cyl. motors will change that.
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> multiple wheels for each day of the week
02/24/2014 at 12:50 |
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I don't think it's sold in Europe either. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there were concept cars that were supposed to be the Nano for the Euro market and a few more or less official release dates, but nothing has come out of it as of yet.
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> Texican
02/24/2014 at 12:59 |
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I agree that power is a very useful thing in certain situations. I wouldn't really want to daily anything slower than my current car either. It's just that I think there are quite a few misconceptions about European cars and roads out there. Even tiny city cars like the Opel Adam or Fiat Panda are perfectly capable of driving outside of cities. They may be loud and relatively uncomfortable compared to larger automobiles, but they will do it without any issues.
Goshen, formerly Darkcode
> . .
02/24/2014 at 13:10 |
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1.2L subcompacts with CVTs. European people want to smash them with sledgehammers, I can only imagine what their American reception would be.
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> Goshen, formerly Darkcode
02/24/2014 at 13:22 |
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There aren't many of those. In fact, I can't think of any. I know Nissan offers a 1.2 Micra with a CVT, but that's about all that comes to my mind. And Nissan is hardly European anyway. Fiat, Opel, Peugeot, Renault, VW, Skoda, Audi, Dacia - none of them offer small engines with CVT gearboxes. The Citroen website doesn't seem to work so I can't check that. In reality, if any sort of automatic box is offered in a small car it's usually with the more powerful engine options.
You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
> . .
02/24/2014 at 13:51 |
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The Reliant Robin. Though to be honest I'm not sure it works in Europe either. This is the revamped model that was on sale from 1999-2001 according to Wikipedia.
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> You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much
02/24/2014 at 13:54 |
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Fair enough, although as you said - it doesn't work anywhere, Europe included.
Makoyouidiot
> Texican
02/24/2014 at 14:30 |
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And another problem, at least here in TX, is folks who intentionally merge at 30-40 mph. I am a 320lb man in a goddamn 101bhp Fiat 500, and I can get to at least 65 on most onramps, only to be held up by some idiot who thinks 40 is the proper speed to merge onto a 75mph interstate.
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Texican
> . .
02/24/2014 at 19:30 |
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I think small cars are often overlooked in the US regardless of origin. We also have a tendency to put too much power into everything at the expense of economy. A true subcompact would probably be fine. They were thirty years ago when they were imported by Japan Inc.