Can Anyone Drop Some Tire Knowledge?

"Luken10" (luken10) 02/05/2014 at 20:56 • Filed to: None

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Curious what anyone has to say about this!

The top tire was the front left and the bottom tire is front right on a FWD Protege5. As you can see there is a significant difference in wear in the sidewall region! This occurred after a weekend of spirited driving.

My question to all of you is, does this have more to do with driving style or alignment? After about 9000 miles on these tires the outside tread blocks have had the most meat left, but this specific driving trip really wore down that area on the front right. However, I was driving harder than I had in the past.

*Sorry for the crummy cell phone pics!

crowmolly > Luken10 02/05/2014 at 20:58

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I'd get your alignment checked. Also, what psi do you run your tires at?

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Luken10 02/05/2014 at 20:58

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Were you driving on the sidewall?

Spasoje > Luken10 02/05/2014 at 21:02

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I'm guessing this is why:

Luken10 > crowmolly 02/05/2014 at 21:06

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Is it possible for alignment issues to only show up when the car is driven hard? I have had really even tire wear up until this point.

I run the front tires at 33 PSI.

Birddog > Luken10 02/05/2014 at 21:08

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If your alignment is within spec you're over driving the tire.

crowmolly > Luken10 02/05/2014 at 21:08

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Well, how spirited was your driving?

Luken10 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/05/2014 at 21:08

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One would think! The tires are Continental ExtremeContact DWs, which are known for having a very soft sidewall compared to other summer tires.

Luken10 > crowmolly 02/05/2014 at 21:15

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Lots of heavy braking on turn in going downhill. I can see how wear like this would be possible. I just found it strange it didn't happen to the other tire.

crowmolly > Luken10 02/05/2014 at 21:17

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Oh, then yeah, that has a lot to do with it. Conti DW? Was this the "inside" or "outside" tire? It really looks like it was just your driving style.

Luken10 > Spasoje 02/05/2014 at 21:17

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Most likely. I'm thinking I may have been more confident in left handed turns, leading to more wear on that specific tire.

OtherBarry > Luken10 02/05/2014 at 21:20

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Up your tire pressure to help stiffen the sidewall.

Luken10 > Birddog 02/05/2014 at 21:20

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Would increasing the PSI be beneficial?

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Luken10 02/05/2014 at 21:21

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Drive faster... More slip angle!

Luken10 > crowmolly 02/05/2014 at 21:23

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Conti DW, on the outside of the tire. I will add that the road wasn't paved all that great. One of those neglected mountain roads that seem to be paved with fine gravel. I'm sure that contributes to it.

JGrabowMSt > Luken10 02/05/2014 at 21:30

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There's two things coming into play.

1) Definitely check your alignment to make sure it's not this. It probably has nothing to do with alignment.

2) This is mostly coming into play with your turn in speeds. You need to double check your pressure, and make sure it's correct. Basically, that wear is when you corner too fast. If you had say, slicks or other racing tires, you'd notice that even with "spirited" driving, in the same condition, it might show the same wear, because the tires aren't really hot enough to produce the grip you need around the corner, so you're basically just putting massive wear on a dangerous part of the tire.

Remember that most tires are 4 ply on the tread (maybe that's changed) and 2 ply on the sidewall (also, may have changed). Most importantly however, the sidewall is much thinner than the actual tread. Essentially, you're putting a lot of wear on the "corner" of the tire. Obviously, you're not down to the nylon or belts, so it's not like you're risking a blowout, but cornering like that often will put significant wear on a tire, and definitely ruin your day eventually. Since it's also FWD, you should think about slightly more pressure, you're running the tires a little soft.

As far as tire pressure, you need to take the car and the tire into consideration, and also find where you're comfortable. A "good" place to inflate the tire is 10% below the max rating. Example, the Kumho tires on the SL600 are rated for 50PSI, so no more than 45PSI. The door says 33 front, 36 back. Pretty low, but allows the tire to flex a little if you stomp on it, rather than immediately breaking loose. I like to have the tires at the door rating on that car because it's more comfortable. Compare that to my Neon, where the tires are good for 44PSI max, and the door calls for like 32PSI. I prefer a bit of a harder ride, so I inflate to 38-40 on all 4, because I find the gas mileage to be more favorable, but also the ride is better. This is all 100% subjective. Check your door and check your tire. Try running the tires a little harder, like 37PSI for a couple weeks, and see if you even notice a difference (sometimes you don't).

But essentially, you've just been cornering too fast for the tire. Conti's also (in my experience) are a softer tire, and when driven hard, will wear pretty rapidly. I have continental tires on my bicycle, and they wear down very quickly when I ride hard. My sister had conti's on her Mini from the factory, and while they lasted a fairly long time, replacing them was expensive, which pushed her to go with Fuzion tires, which seem to wear much more slowly (comparatively), but do have a noticeably different ride to her.

Alignment would be more noticeable if your car would pull to one side, or you actually had wear on the tire that didn't follow the tread. If you take your hand and actually run along the tread, if you felt wear that went on an angle, that would indicate an alignment problem, or possibly a shifted belt. A shifted belt is a tire defect, but it can be confused with a wear spot from a panic stop where the wheel locked up, and you literally skidded for any length on that spot. I currently have a spot on my tire from when I hit the deer, and over 55mph, it actually makes noise because of how "bad" it is. A shifted belt will get progressively worse (and is very dangerous). A wear spot should go away as the tire wears by itself (depending on how bad it is).

Your tire looks okay, but go get your hands dirty and double check. The tire should feel smooth if it's normal, if not, consult above. If you aren't sure, go to a tire place, and ask them if they can look at it and tell you. You could say that you just want the alignment checked, or it just doesn't feel right, etc. Locally, there's a tire place my family has been going to for longer than I've been alive, so they take care of us with rotations or puncture repairs, anything we need, they'll usually explain it as well when I go (I go in often because I hate odd noises).

Luken10 > JGrabowMSt 02/05/2014 at 21:51

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Wow, thanks for that write up! I have found that 33 PSI is a happy medium between ride quality/comfort/and wear (in normal conditions). I think I will begin to bump them up a bit when I know I am going to be driving hard.

There are a couple bits I don't completely understand. For the first bit are you trying to say that because the tire isn't heated up enough for optimal grip it will put most of the force on the outside of the tire rather than distributing it? Also not sure exactly what "wear on an angle is." My tire is worn more on the inside compared to the outside, but not by much. Here is a picture!

Luken10 > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman 02/05/2014 at 21:55

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First you have to help me convince the local authorities to close the road!

thebigbossyboss > Luken10 02/05/2014 at 22:02

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No biggie. Put fronts on rears, rears on fronts. It will even itself out.

Luken10 > thebigbossyboss 02/05/2014 at 22:11

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That was the first thing I did when I got home from that trip haha

JGrabowMSt > Luken10 02/05/2014 at 22:18

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The big thing is that when you corner hard, it will show on the edges of the tire. Usually the outside edge wears faster than the inside, because that's where the most force goes.

The tread doesn't look very deep, so I'm not really sure if you're seeing abnormal wear. As I said before, conti tires are soft, so if you're driving "spiritedly" fairly often, then while some tire might last you 30-40k, those could last 20-25k. Not really a problem with the tire or your driving, they just wear quickly.

^that is a shifted belt. Note that the tread isn't straight, it shifts over in one spot. You'll feel that when you drive. If the car is driving straight, not an issue.

Uneven tire wear is hard to get a picture of, because you feel it on the tire, it's not really a visible thing. Your tires should feel pretty smooth as your run your hand around them, if you ran your hand down the tire, and then felt a rough patch, that would be from a panic stop, or poor alignment. The picture above for poor alignment is a pretty exaggerated case, sometimes it's not something you can see so clearly. It's something you would just feel. It would be easier if I had a tire and could show it to you and what to look for. Tires are something that experience teaches you most about. I rock all weather radials which have a fairly deep tread, and I like that kind of ride and feel. It would be very different from the conti's, and would handle very differently. Better/worse would be subjective.

The Compromiser > Luken10 02/05/2014 at 23:13

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I had one of these from new. The independent suspension really affects the tire wear if everything isn't perfect, I went through a lot of tires just from normal wear too.

That car is a roller skate though and my spirited driving showed I could over drive the car and kill tires. The ride will suck but stiff sidewalls and good alignment and balance will make it marginally better.

evil2win > Luken10 02/05/2014 at 23:13

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I've spent thousands of miles driving on windy northern California roads. I have a tendency to push my cars through the turns. My front tires always had the same tread wear as shown on the lower picture. When I asked a guy at the tire shop about the wear he asked if I tend to drive fast on windy roads. I had to answer yes.

Squid > Luken10 02/06/2014 at 01:49

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Just to jump in here, the tire in the foreground looks to be almost at the end of its life, but doesn't look to have unusual wear. If there is a toe issue you'll end up with feathering on the tread and the car won't handle correctly. If the inside of the tire is wearing abnormally quick compared to the outside you have some negative camber in your alignment and that isn't a bad thing as long as it is even on both sides. The shoulder wear is mostly due to underinflation and high speed corner entry. Just air up a little more before a spirited drive and you should have less wear, but generally the quicker you wear a tire out means you are having more fun.

Old-Busted-Hotness > Luken10 02/06/2014 at 08:02

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There are a couple bits I don't completely understand. For the first bit are you trying to say that because the tire isn't heated up enough for optimal grip it will put most of the force on the outside of the tire rather than distributing it?

Heat in the tire affects grip levels and, in extreme cases, damage due to blistering. Your outer-edge wear is due to insufficient pressure for hard cornering. More pressure will let the tire maintain its shape, so you're cornering on the tread instead of the sidewall.

Old autocross trick: To dial in the pressure, take some chalk and mark the sidewall/tread shoulder, then go for a spirited drive. See where the chalk is worn away. Add/reduce pressure until the chalk comes up to the edge of the tread.

Also, stop doing this:

Luken10 > Old-Busted-Hotness 02/06/2014 at 15:13

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Definitely going to add some PSI from now on when I know I am going to be driving hard. I am doing a track day this weekend so I will try your chalk trick then!

Not sure if I can kick the habit of driving on two wheels. I am practically a motorcycle on the freeway!

Luken10 > The Compromiser 02/06/2014 at 15:15

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I am most likely going to upgrade my tire choice when these wear out. I just liked how my current summer tires are pretty cheap, and ride quite nice. Oh well, this car just begs to be driven harder!

Luken10 > Squid 02/06/2014 at 15:17

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Fun was definitely being had. You have to pay to play I suppose. Definitely upping the tire pressure next time.

Luken10 > JGrabowMSt 02/06/2014 at 15:25

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I had read a couple reviews from people who thought the DWs wore quickly under hard driving. At the time I wasn't sure if it had more to do with the actual tire or the their opinion. I got them for 45 dollars a piece, so I really can't complain about tread life for that price.

That shifted belt is pretty scary looking. Definitely don't have that issue.

Although I did have one other deformity. From my brief research it is called high speed feathering. You can see the effect on the right side of this tire where the tread forms a lip on the edge of each block. I definitely had that going on. From what I read it is fairly normal with hard driving.

The Compromiser > Luken10 02/06/2014 at 15:29

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I wore it like a shirt, and drove it like a teenager whose girlfriend's parents are out of town....

Old-Busted-Hotness > Luken10 02/06/2014 at 18:05

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I understand. It's a tough habit to kick.