My boss is getting one of these for his FR-S :)

"Brian, The Life of" (familycar)
02/05/2014 at 19:05 • Filed to: None

http://www.phantomsuperchargers.com/scion-frssubar…

I had no idea electric superchargers even existed ... SUPER NEAT!

DISCUSSION (38)

Casper > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 19:10

That website almost seems like a giant spoof... I don't think I would give them my credit card info for the 24v leaf blower assembly, but to each their own. I'm curious to see a real dyno of it.

Kinja'd!!!

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 19:11

How can something like this keep up with the engine's demands? It doesn't seem right.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 19:11

Let us know how that goes... A small air compressor shoving air into the engine doesn't seem like it would get the gains they claim.

I_AmDeath > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 19:13

They do exist but I've heard they are pretty gimmicky but I'd love for this one to be real.

Doge_Supreme drives a BRZ > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 19:13

A guy showed up with one at Cascade C&C last summer. Seemed like it provided a bit of a boost but also seems like a fire hazard if something shorts out. I'll stick with conventional forced induction, with a turbo i plan on picking up after my project car is funded.

I_AmDeath > I_AmDeath
02/05/2014 at 19:15

1.5 minutes of boost. Lawl

TwoFortified > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 19:16

What. The shit. Is that thing?

The green movement is getting so bad, even our forced induction is driven electrically?!?

Also, 5 pounds of boost for "Please contact for pricing"? CP.

doodon2whls > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 19:16

Um, yeah - that's partially how ERS-H works on the 2014 F1 cars...

BUT, there is no way I would give this 'phantom' supercharger my cashola...

briannutter1 > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy
02/05/2014 at 19:17

Hotrods roadkill monza had some decent gains from 5 gas powered leaf blowers in tandem. Yes a leadblower produces a few horses on a chassis duno but it's generally a joke and huge wate of money. An electric motor turbo has been done before and they are out of business.

briannutter1 > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy
02/05/2014 at 19:17

Jeff-God-of-Biscuits > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 19:18

Now maybe if you feed the output from this into a turbo - profit?

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > briannutter1
02/05/2014 at 19:24

But then, that was done with 5 gas powered leafblowers, not some small electrically driven turbine. They got about 20 HP tops out of that.

If my knowledge is correct, the air coming down the intake is going faster than what any 12V fan can do, hence why turbos and superchargers are powered by the engine, it's that the little motors can't keep up.

Brian, The Life of > I_AmDeath
02/05/2014 at 19:31

That's continuous boost. My understanding is the batteries that drive this charge so fast that you only run our of juice on an oval. Any road course is no biggie.

BJ > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 19:34

Electric supercharging is a technology that's coming because it's non-parasitic (well, less parasitic, because the alternator still generates some load) and can theoretically give better responsiveness than traditional supercharging. I think it's a good idea - but not necessarily one that will run on 12V. Maybe one day, when 24V or 48V power systems are the norm (if ever).

While I admire these guys for what they're trying, 'cause someone's gotta be on the bleeding edge, I'm not sure that what they're selling is worth any money. I looked at the dyno charts, and unless I misunderstood, it looked like there was a loss of power/torque at high RPM compared to stock.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Brian, The Life of > Casper
02/05/2014 at 19:35

The guy who developed it is driving down to help him install and then they're gonna dyno. I'll do an update with the outcome.

Frank Grimes > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 19:37

Sweeet its like a turbo scavenging unused electrons instead of pressure.

Sinanigans > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 19:38

I want one so bad!!! Its been testing for a while now- checkey the thready

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthr…

John Bulzacchelli > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 19:48

"The Phantom is a 'Full throttle Supercharger' (FTS) that provides non parasitic boost, on demand and produces a pressure ratio of up to 1.3 PR."

A 1.3 Pressure ratio is equal to about 4.4 psi. 4.4 psi for 60 seconds after an 8 minute recharge. Huh...

Casper > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 19:51

How are they tuning it, or are they assuming it will make such a minor difference it will be within the tolerance for automatic compensation by the ECU?

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 20:01

Scam. Definitely a scam. Anyone claiming +20% hp and +33% torque without touching the ECU, they're so full of crap. Waste of your boss's money even if the butt dyno wants it to be true. Electric supercharging can work but it requires the usual suite of forced induction upgrades such as computer tuning, injectors, cooling, and the like. But there is NO WAY. NO HOW. That 4 psi will get you +40hp on a naturally aspirated engine without the use of an intercooler and software upgrade. Your computer would correct for the extra air or throw a code. 10hp is possible. I could believe that. A 5% upgrade is doable. Maybe 20 if you get an ECU flash. But I worry about the long term stability of a setup like this. It won't be cheap but I think you could find an advantage in ease of installation and adjustments because it is just on the intake side of things.

Whatever the base price is of the kit, double it for an ECU tune and everything else to make it work properly. Even if it seems okay at first, I would not drive it for long without a proper tune. I would be deathly afraid of causing problems somewhere.

samssun > Frank Grimes
02/05/2014 at 20:15

A turbo doesn't scavenge "unused" anything. It takes its force from the face of your pistons, instead of the crank like a supercharger. TANSTAAFL.

Brian, The Life of > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
02/05/2014 at 20:24

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthr…

Brian, The Life of > BJ
02/05/2014 at 20:25

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthr…

Brian, The Life of > Santiago of Escuderia Boricua
02/05/2014 at 20:25

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthr…

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 20:40

I saw the link, he has a lot more than just the kit going on. A LOT more. Yes the motor is a higher output than the typical ebay ones but unless you get the ECU upgraded or reflashed, your computer simply does not know what to do with that increased airflow.

puddler > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 20:55

Kinja'd!!!

on a side note, tell him i have an intake tornado, nitrous pills, and some bottles of horsepowerjizz he can have.

BJ > Brian, The Life of
02/05/2014 at 22:38

Interesting, thanks.

Although, I don't know how much I can really trust a guy from Calgary... :-D

Brian, The Life of > BJ
02/05/2014 at 23:00

Oh man, you're right ... He's totally screwed!

Frank Grimes > samssun
02/05/2014 at 23:32

So the engine uses exhaust? And the heat and expansion of gasses producing pressure doesnt spin the turbo?

samssun > Frank Grimes
02/06/2014 at 02:48

Force against the turbine has an equal and opposite reaction on the piston. That exhaust pressure exists in a volume bounded by the piston, cylinder walls, exhaust manifold, and turbine, so any pressure against the turbine necessarily exists against the piston face as well.

It doesn't matter whether you think of it as expanding gas, "excess heat", or just a uniform block of material going through the turbine...at the end of the day, the piston is pushing the turbine.

samssun > Jeff-God-of-Biscuits
02/06/2014 at 02:58

Actually, just skipping the airflow part and throwing the motor directly onto a turbo impeller could make for a decent anti-lag system. If the charge is good for 4psi for 90 seconds, reconfigure it for 10x the current for 1/10th the time and it could be a great way to kick start the turbo any time you don't have the exhaust flow.

Gizmo - The Only Good Gremlin, but don't feed me after Midnight > Brian, The Life of
02/06/2014 at 03:46

Be sure to dyno it before and after! Then post results.

Frank Grimes > samssun
02/06/2014 at 09:58

the engine isnt 100% effecient. So in a normal aspiration there is heat and pressure not being used or wasted a turbo using this expansion of gasses pressure becomes more efficient. The supercharging effect must be using something that the normal aspirated motor is not utlilizing to become more efficient right?

It's a "Porch-uh" > BJ
02/06/2014 at 14:34

Maybe one day, when 24V or 48V power systems are the norm

Maybe a Tesla's power system can support one of these?

Wait... no.

Admiral Asskicker > BJ
02/06/2014 at 15:03

I don't see how it could be less parasitic overall:
Electric SC: Mechanical Energy > Electrical energy > Mechanical
Traditional SC: Mechanical

Though the existence of a battery could influence when the energy is converted, I don't see how the whole system could be more efficient.

BJ > Admiral Asskicker
02/06/2014 at 18:13

Good point. I'm not an engineer, but I guess by having a power system and battery sufficiently powerful to run the SC, you can choose when, and by how much, it is used. Which is better than a traditional mechanical model that can't be decoupled and therefore presents other challenges (creating vacuum in the line, for example).

samssun > Frank Grimes
02/06/2014 at 21:09

It's true that engines (and everything else) involve waste heat, but this isn't what powers a turbo. Exhaust gases, whether expanding or not, impart the same force to their container, meaning the piston is driving the turbine.

If you could get the gases completely outside the combustion chamber, seal the valves, and then let them expand, you could spin the turbo without taking engine power, but unfortunately the amount of energy it takes to shove that mass out of the cylinder is the same amount available to spin the turbine wheel (minus losses).

There is some gain over a supercharger in that a good turbine wheel spins more freely than a supercharger screw, but the actual work itself (compressing the intake charge) is never free, and takes the same energy whether from the crank or the piston's exhaust stroke.

captain_spleen > Brian, The Life of
02/07/2014 at 06:22

Next project: an electric intercooler

Kinja'd!!!