Oppopinions: Are all manual pickups equal?

"Zibodiz" (zibodiz1)
12/31/2014 at 00:51 • Filed to: None

I'm finally ready to retire my trusty Escort in exchange for something new, and I'm getting my criteria narrowed down for my next ride, but I've run into a dilemma: The vehicle I want doesn't exist. Because of that, I'm being forced to look in a few other directions, but I don't have a lot of experience with them, so I'm hoping I can get some input from y'all.

The vehicle I want: A 4x4 Expedition with a 5-speed manual tranny. Problem is, there never was such a thing.

The things I really need: 3 or more doors, seating for 4, with a backseat that a child seat will fit into. 4x4. A towing capacity of 6500 lbs or more. Reliability. A price tag under $3 grand. And, of course, a third pedal.

I know that most people insist that towing with a manual transmission is a bad thing, but this will be my daily driver as well as my towing rig, and I've had all I can take of automatics. The 3rd row seating in the Expedition would be nice, but it's not really worth the loss of the 5-speed. I've towed plenty with manual trucks before, and never had a problem with it.

A little background: I'm a diehard Ford guy, although it's really because I've had automatics in Chevys & Dodges leave me stranded. I've only lost one engine in a Dodge (it had a 5-speed tranny), and other than that all my trucks have had reliable engines for as long as the transmissions lasted. The only problem is that the transmissions have usually failed so quickly that I never really got a chance to see if the engines were reliable.

The real predicament is this: 5-speed post-'97 Ford trucks with 4x4 are hard to find. When you do come across one with an extended or crew cab, it's at least twice my budget, and often has 200k+ miles. I don't mind high mileage, but it at least needs to be affordable.

This leads me to an option: Switch brands. I'd rather have a crew cab, but an extended cab with rear doors would work, but that would mean '97 or newer for most of the trucks out there. I've seen a few Chevys & Dodges in my price range that would probably work, but it really begs the question; will they be reliable? Is it worth the premium to get a Ford, or would I be able to rely on a Dodge or Chevy? This will be my only vehicle for a few roadtrips, so it needs to be able to reliably tow 6500+ lbs without breaking down. If you are pro-non-Ford, what drivetrain would you recommend?

Have a picture of what I would like, if I could afford it.

DISCUSSION (38)

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 00:56

With a manual and the 5.3L/5.7L, the Chevy should be pretty much unstoppable. GM's 4-speed autos always had reliability issues.

Nibby > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 00:57

inb4 90s F150/F250

claramag, Mustaco Master > Nibby
12/31/2014 at 01:01

You ass, that's eggxactly what I came to do

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 01:05

the Chevy small blocks are durable as heck engines. I'd get one of those. Also see loganstenos post.

shop-teacher > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
12/31/2014 at 01:06

They never put a manual behind the 5.3, the only GMT-800 trucks that had a manual were mostly 4.3 V-6's, and a few 4.8 V8's. I've never seen a 4.8 manual truck, that wasn't a regular cab, but if you could find an extended cab 4.8 with a 5-speed, that would fill the bill ... Except for price. I've never seen a GMT-800 pickup under $3k that wasn't miled out and/or rusted out.

I think your best option is a '96-'98 3-door extended cab Chevy/GMC with a 350/5.7 and a 5-speed. They aren't common by any means, but they're out there, and they are reliable.

You're chasing near-unicorns, so good luck to you man!

Zibodiz > Nibby
12/31/2014 at 01:06

I'd be happy to get a '97 F150 Extended cab, but the cheapest I've been able to find was $4000 with over 210k miles on it. Prior to '97, the extended cabs didn't have access doors, and the quad-cab was only available on the F350, which put the price back up there. Also, I'd rather get a 5.4L engine; the 460 is a great engine, but I'm tired of their 6mpg nonsense. I've had a few of them.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 01:07

99-up Ram 2500 with the NV5600 manual, with the Cummins of course. That way absolutely none of the drivetrain is built by Dodge.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > shop-teacher
12/31/2014 at 01:08

This is what happens when GM offers 3 V8s in the same truck, I forget which one got the manual behind it.

I agree a 5.7/5-speed Silverado/Sierra is the best bet.

Zibodiz > shop-teacher
12/31/2014 at 01:09

I've seen 2 of those actually, on local Facebook classifieds, for $1500-2000. I'm thinking I should go test drive the next one I see.

shop-teacher > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 01:11

Something like this is what you want, although in better shape. '96 is when the extended cab's got a 3rd door. These are easily 200k mile trucks, when maintained.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/482113…

Zibodiz > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/31/2014 at 01:11

Haha, I'm glad I'm not the only one who's got a bad taste in his mouth from Dodge. Too bad Cummins is spelled with dollar signs.

shop-teacher > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 01:13

Cool! You should definitely try one out.

Steve in Manhattan > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 01:14

I think 4Runner is the answer here. Or high mileage Tacoma/Tundra. It is impossible to kill these trucks.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 01:14

I just know their transmissions aren't great, though my family has had MUCH better luck with them than GM. Another suggestion would be a '92-'94 Ford F-250/350 with the IDI. Those can be found CHEAP, and they are available with the ZF5, which is a pretty good transmission. It may not be a powerhouse, but with a turbo, they can get around just fine. Also, they are cheap to maintain for a diesel.

Zibodiz > shop-teacher
12/31/2014 at 01:15

If that had the third door, that would be exactly what I'm looking for, and right in my price range, too. I wouldn't want to spring for a rusty truck, but body damage is fine (heck, all trucks have battle scars, don't they?) I didn't realize Chevy started the 3rd door in '96; until yesterday, I thought it wasn't introduced 'till the '99 redesign.

Zibodiz > Steve in Manhattan
12/31/2014 at 01:17

I would tend to agree with you, as I love Japanese cars, but they just aren't big enough. I checked into the 4Runner, but they have a pretty low tow rating (something like 3500 lbs.) Same for a Tacoma. The cheapest Tundra I could find was 5-digits. Nissan trucks were the same story.

shop-teacher > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 01:19

My dad bought a '95 ext cab, so that one kinda stuck with me. In '96 they added the 3rd door, and introduced the Vortec 350, which made 55 more horsepower (255 up from 200 in '95). You definitely want a '96+. If you care, they added a passenger side front airbag in '97, just FYI.

Zibodiz > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/31/2014 at 01:21

I used to have an '89 F250 with the 7.3L Diesel, and I wouldn't mind another. It was a good truck, until I wrapped it around a light pole. It had the 5-speed tranny, and was a ton of fun to drive. It was pretty expensive to maintain, though; in the couple of years I had it, the batteries died, then the battery cables (which seriously cost me almost $300), and the vacuum pump went out. The transfer case also died right before I wrecked it (although that was my fault for driving 65mph in 4x4. Hey, I was 17.)

Zibodiz > shop-teacher
12/31/2014 at 01:22

That's great information, thanks!

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 01:23

As I said, cheap to maintain, for a diesel.

Steve in Manhattan > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 01:25

Here's a question - how often do you need to tow 6500 pounds? Could you borrow a vehicle for those tows? I had a Toyota HiLux - the few times I had to tow a big horse trailer a friend lent me her F-250.

shop-teacher > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 01:26

You're welcome! Good hunting! Post what you find.

Tohru > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/31/2014 at 01:43

They still built the front suspension so you're screwed there.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Tohru
12/31/2014 at 01:45

Handles power better than GM's independent setup. Plus, it's a pretty easy fix.

Zibodiz > Steve in Manhattan
12/31/2014 at 01:45

I've actually already got a regular cab F250 that I use for farm work and hauling cars etc. around. It's a great truck, and it's been good for a second vehicle when I needed to haul, but I'm planning to take a cross-country road trip next summer, and want a nice vehicle for that. I used to need a fuel efficient daily driver, but now I rarely travel more than 15 miles a week, so the extra mileage of a truck wouldn't hurt me much at all. When we do need to travel a couple hundred miles, we'll still have my wife's car, so it won't really matter if my daily is a gas hog.

I've had 3 vehicles for years now, and usually it's 1 fuel efficient car, 1 large car or CUV, and 1 truck. Now, I don't really need the fuel efficient car, but I will need a 4-seat truck for a long trip, so I might as well switch my daily to being a pickup. It's been too long since my daily's been 4x4. I'd really rather have a midsize SUV like an Xterra, Cherokee, or 4Runner, but sadly, the towing capacity just isn't enough.

Steve in Manhattan > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 01:52

At this point, you need to spec out the perfect vehicle and spend whatever you have to ... keep it for years, and the cost will make sense in the long run.

Arben72 > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 01:57

BMW x5 with a manual would check the tow and comfort boxes, might fit the budget too.

Oh, you wanted something reliable...

How about a cargo van? I've heard they're pretty good off road if they have 4x4.

Zibodiz > Steve in Manhattan
12/31/2014 at 02:01

That's probably what's going to happen. I've been burned buying in a hurry before, so I'm definitely taking my time this time around. My last car took me 6 months to buy, and it's been perfect for me. I plan to do the same thing with this truck. I have a few investments that may pay off soon, allowing me a little more cash to work with, but we'll see what happens. At this point, I know my budget is limiting my options, but who knows; it might not be an issue at all by the time I've found the right vehicle.

Zibodiz > Arben72
12/31/2014 at 02:04

I've actually looked at a few cargo vans. I'm pretty partial to the Econolines, but I plan to do some occasional dirt-road towing with it, and feel like I need 4x4 (even though I probably don't), and that's hard to come by. So far, I have yet to find a van of any brand with 4x4 for under $10k. And I've never seen a modern van with a stick.

Arben72 > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 02:21

You should go to car auctions, 4x4 off fleet vans are a plenty for cheap. At least in my area. Not sure about manuals or if they even make them with manuals though, I just assumed they did. Out of Chevy vs dodge, I'd go with Chevy. Parts are a plenty for ls engines, I've never had an experience with manual versions of either though. I almost bought a 01 z71 Silverado for $900 but had to pass on it, it was an auto but the 5.7 engines refuse to die.

Nibbles > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 07:49

Dakota. Can be found with 4 doors, a V8 and Manuel for around your price point.

nermal > Zibodiz
12/31/2014 at 09:27

Eh. At the $3k price range, you're going to be looking at something that's at least 15 - 20 yrs old, and on its last legs. I raised the budget to $5k and searched cars.com, which came up with 26 4x4, 4 dr trucks with manuals. Half are Rangers or Dakotas, and half of the remaining are actually autos that are listed as manuals.

Perhaps the answer is to save up some more $$$? Options in the $5 - $10k range are much more plentiful.

Zibodiz > Nibbles
12/31/2014 at 22:10

I actually really like how a Dakota handles. Unfortunately, the one vehicle that lost an engine and stranded me hundreds of miles from home was a Dakota. Are they reliable?

You're right about them being an option as long as they're reliable: This one is pretty appealing.

Zibodiz > nermal
12/31/2014 at 23:09

Call me crazy, but I would never spend that kind of money on a car. 10-20 years old with a rough exterior is exactly what I want. I've successfully kept myself in reliable vehicles for years without spending money like that. My policy is that I should never spend more than $1000/year on a car. If a car costs me 5 grand, it needs to last me 5 years reliably. If I spend a grand on it, I shouldn't expect it to last me more than a year. I have had trucks as well as cars, and I've always been able to hold to that. If I sell a car for what I paid for it, and invest $1000/year to keep it running, then I've broken even. If I don't have to spend much to keep it running, but it depreciates a couple grand in a couple years, then I've still broken even. If a truck costs me 8 Grand, it will actually be more like 15 Grand, with interest and full coverage insurance (after all, I don't have that kind of cash. Heck, my house cost barely more than that.) So lets say I buy an $8k truck for $15k. Then I'll use it for 3 years or so. During that time, it needs $600/year for maintenance (oil, tires, an occasional windshield, belts, maybe a timing belt, etc), and while I've had it, it'll have some wear & tear and of course extra miles, and probably some hail damage (that's a given where I live.) Then it'll have a couple thousand in depreciation. I'll be able to sell it for, maybe, 6 grand. Probably more like 5. And if the automotive market it as bad then as it is now, I'll be lucky to sell it for 3. And that's assuming nothing goes really wrong with it — y'know, like, what happened with the truck I bought on a loan a few years ago; its engine went out with a couple grand on the loan. Left me really up a creek without a paddle. Anyway, I sell it for 6 grand. That means it cost me over 10 grand. A $7,000 loss. That's not my cup of tea.

Zibodiz > Nibbles
12/31/2014 at 23:32

Hmm, bummer; on looking it up, it's only rated at 3400 lbs towing capacity. I need almost twice that. Source: Edmunds.com

Nibbles > Zibodiz
01/01/2015 at 12:05

yeah, with a 4 banger and 3.21 gears. http://www.allpar.com/trucks/dakota-…

all the way at the bottom you'll see the spec sheets. Any 4x4 equipped with the factory towing package is rated for 6,200. Add helper springs and that goes to nearly 8,000

(also have towed that much with my '95 without issue)

Zibodiz > Nibbles
01/01/2015 at 14:08

Oh wow, that's very different information. Honestly, I loved my '98 Dakota. It was a little 4-banger w/ RWD, but it was tons of fun to drive. Until the engine went. If I could get a crew cab 4x4 Dakota with that kind of towing capacity, I think I'd seriously go for it.

Nibbles > Zibodiz
01/02/2015 at 10:40

Also yeah, the 3.9, 4.7, 5.2 and 5.9 are quite reliable engines. I think the truck was honestly too big for an AMC 2.5 from 1984 to push.