Bottom Budget Beaters This Winter

"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54) 12/23/2014 at 20:03 • Filed to: car buying

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LiquidBurns described the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Not everyone cares about luxury. Not everyone can afford a second car for winter. So I've decided to compile a list of bargain basement beaters for those of us in the cheap seats.

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As I described in !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , I once went shopping for a Miata hardtop and came home with an entire Saturn SW2 (5-speed!) for $400 - half the price of a hardtop. Bargains are out there if you look for them, and even for a cheap car, you don't have to sacrifice everything.

I'm not limiting this discussion to AWD cars, either. If I did, your choices would be Subaru, Subaru, Subaru, Subaru, cheap pickup, Subaru, Subaru, ancient Audi, Subaru, and Subaru. Throw a set of good snow tires on your 2WD car and don't drive like an idiot, and you'll be better off than most people in those top luxury budget 4x4 bosses.

But I really want an AWD Subaru

Let's just get the obvious choice out of the way so we can move on to other things. If you live in the snow belt and you want a winter car, you think of a Subaru. The cheapest roadworthy Subaru I could find near me was !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . The seller says it needs a "ball bearing" on the driver's side rear, which I'm assuming means a wheel bearing, and the exhaust has a small hole. It supposedly has an engine with lower miles than the 201k on the chassis, though the seller admits having no paperwork to prove it. For $1100 and a couple of parts, you can have a super practical Forester to get your AWD warm fuzzies for cheap - and it's even a 5-speed manual.

Other cheap options you can find are Imprezas and Legacies from the 1990s. Beware of rust on these, and, of course, failing head gaskets, especially on the 2.5 motor.

I don't care what you say, I really need an SUV

No, you don't. But if you insist, buy my girlfriend's 2005 Jeep Liberty. Seriously. It had a lot of work earlier this year - all new brakes, steering rack, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember - but still needs a new front bumper cover, corner light, and some electrical work (parking lights on the passenger side) to pass MA inspection. The gauge lights are out, the left rear window is taped into place due to a failed regulator, and various electrical systems keep on failing. It has some dings and scratches, and the interior has frequently transported two small children - you know what that means. But it runs and drives great. We added a trailer hitch to use as a sweep vehicle at the Empire State Performance Rally, but have not added trailer light wiring. Throw her an offer approaching $1500 and she'll probably take it.

OK, I don't need an SUV, but I need something big

Forget minivans - all the cheap ones are all rusted out or have other problems, and nobody wants one anyway. If you need lots of space cheap, look no further than the Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! is cheaper than civilian versions in comparable shape. Its stiffer suspension won't float down the road like the boat it is. But the main reason I suggest the police version is the availability of a limited slip differential. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! had one, and with a set of Firestone Winterforce tires it was one of the best winter cars I've ever had. As a bonus, everybody else gets out of your way when they see you coming.

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I want something fun

I know, I know, I know. "The answer is always Miata." It's such a cliche. But hear me out. The Miata is a fun, great handling car. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! has a mere 116hp, but in slippery conditions it has enough power to spin its wheels and hang the back out quite nicely. All the virtues that make this such a great handling car on the street and track make it a lot of fun in the slick stuff, too. It's well balanced and easy to control. But you don't have to take my word for it...

You can get one with a limited slip diff, but an open diff is OK with the right tires. Besides, it's not too big a deal to upgrade. You can winterize it a bit better with a hardtop, but seeing as how they go for almost as much as this $1300 car, you might as well just be diligent about clearing snow off the soft top before the weight damages it.

I can't really afford any winter car

Sure you can. Like !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for $300. Yes, $300! Sure, it needs some brake help, and some tape on the back window. The power top doesn't work, but you're not going to put it down in winter anyway. Or !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for $400. It just needs a heater core. Or this !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , also for $400. Sure, all of these cheap cars have problems. That's why they're cheap. But if you're handy with a wrench, you can put it back on the road and keep it going. It's arguably better than a loan payment.

So there you have it - some el cheapo winter beater options in a variety of random arbitrarily defined categories.

(Photo credits: Justin Hughes, Allison Feldhusen)

505Turbeaux > Justin Hughes 12/23/2014 at 20:07

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I think you just found me my summer beater in that saab. Top down ALL SUMMER LONG because for $300, fuck it. That interior already looks like something left out in the sun for 15 years

Justin Hughes > 505Turbeaux 12/23/2014 at 20:11

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Oh wait, you said SUMMER beater. I thought you meant winter. Go for it! The top still operates manually. If it rains, so what? And it's a 5-speed turbo!

Nobi > Justin Hughes 12/23/2014 at 20:13

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The answer to all these is in your leading pic. RT4WD FTW!

44444444444 > Justin Hughes 12/23/2014 at 20:17

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1998-2000 Volvo V70XC!

Cheap.

Reliable (ish).

Wagon.

AWD that's ok... Not great but pretty ok.

jkm7680 > Justin Hughes 12/23/2014 at 20:20

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I find the lack of Quattro disappointing.

Justin Hughes > jkm7680 12/23/2014 at 20:25

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I didn't find any cheap enough on my local Craigslist. That's the only reason I didn't mention them. Definitely an alternative to a Subaru if you can find and run one cheap enough.

jkm7680 > Justin Hughes 12/23/2014 at 20:26

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If you could find a B5 with the 2.8, You could run one of those for the same price as a Subaru. It's a pretty good engine.

Justin Hughes > 44444444444 12/23/2014 at 20:26

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If you can find one cheap, go for it! My choices here are simply the cheapest runners I found on my local Craigslist.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Justin Hughes 12/23/2014 at 20:55

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On the topic of dirt cheap winter cars, how do mid-engined cars fare in the winter? I've always theorized that they'd do well because like a front wheel drive car, the weight is over the drive wheels. Since the weight is over the back, that would make me think that braking might be improved slightly due to weight transfer. I have no idea what the front would do. It might only work when braking. I don't live in an environment with winters at the moment, but I always thought it would be fun to use MR2s, Fieros, and X19s as winter beaters once I get somewhere that does.

Justin Hughes > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/23/2014 at 21:09

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I had a rusty AW11 MR2, and had to drive it in the snow a few times. You're right - with proper tires, it was great in the snow. So was my mom's '74 Super Beetle.

Tohru > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/23/2014 at 21:13

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With an MR car, once the ass steps out it's much harder to bring it back. That's the only real downside.

Tohru > Justin Hughes 12/23/2014 at 21:15

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My winter car, which might finally be done in January:

Car: $300

Fuel pump: $225

Ignition switch: $69

Windshield: $175 (to be installed)

Taillight: $40

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Tohru 12/23/2014 at 21:44

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Yeah, but that's MR cars in general.

Tohru > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/23/2014 at 21:56

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but it's magnified in a low-traction situation

SprungColossal > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 12:27

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Gotta add the mid to late 90's Deville with the 4.9l engine to this dead; cheap as shit, reliable, and won't get stuck in snow ever.

Viggen > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 12:33

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Good old MA state inspection! Not...

Icantthinkofanythingwitty > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 12:35

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Never before has a post made me so happy that I live in Florida. My winter car is a convertible.

imadeaburner > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 12:38

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My winter beater is a 99 Jeep Cherokee 4.0

Paid 100$ cash for it running and driving.

Small work needed to be done, still needs a radiator that I'm too cheap to buy just yet.

but the price was right, no rot, and beautiful running.

Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > Nobi 12/27/2014 at 12:42

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That was a somewhat overlooked little gem in its day (I knew someone who used it both as a daily and as a ski car) but their day was nearly 25 years ago, and my impression is that people are starting to ask real money for the good ones (well kept, low mileage, unmodified...)

That Forester — at least ten years newer depending on the Civic, spittin' image of the two in my driveway except with 5-speed, $1100 askin' and maybe less gettin' — could be a real winner and well worth the repairs if the powertrain is in good shape and the rust is not bad. Very practical packaging, and with tires that give them a fighting chance, they handle snow quite well.

WinrickRacing > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 12:48

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'93 Volvo 240 for $500. Drove it from PA to New Hampshire and back and drifted all the things. Best snow car ever.

Nobi > Ad_absurdum_per_aspera 12/27/2014 at 12:52

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True. I can't even make a comment about head gaskets against the Subaru, because D and B series Honda engines are notorious for them. The AWD on the Honda is viscous coupling controlled too. It never really shuts off and you can definitely feel a drag on the drivetrain while driving. I'd be willing to bet the Forester gets better MPG. I gotta say though, with the exception of the rust and the gas tank, parts for the Civic are cheap and plentiful. Most of them interchange with the other EF Civics and CRX's. I've got braided steel brake lines for a CRX on my wagon. It's a hoot to drive in the winter and it only cost me $800.

timgray > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 12:58

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Bets the subaru needs new head gaskets and the belt is probably about 9000 miles past recommended mileage to have it changed.

LHturbo > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 13:08

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got a 1996 4runner in great shape with 220k miles. Interior looks new, New clutch, rear main seal, manual and electronic locker. 3k. Best winter beater I'll ever have!

Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > Nobi 12/27/2014 at 13:11

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One of my Foresters had had the head gaskets replaced by the previous owner. That boxer engine is not the most tolerant of overlooked overheating, and some kinds of neglected or incorrect maintenance are said to send the gaskets to an early grave as well.

The thought that the RT AWD Civic gets worse mileage than them is somewhat dismaying for that size of car (the Forester's mileage improved in the last couple of years). The EPA thinks I should get 27 highway, but if either the cargo or my right foot (never mind both) is a little heavy, 25 is all too possible. Was the RT Civic's batch-mode predecessor (normally running as front wheel drive) any better?

Someone Else's Projects > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/27/2014 at 13:11

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I daily drove an MR2 Spyder in Boston for three years. Apart from one incident of getting stuck on an unplowed back street due to pure personal stupidity, it was perfect. I once commuted to work on a day when the only other person in the office was my boss in his 4Matic E-class, and I was constantly passing stuck FWD cars there and back. The Spyder has the same bolt pattern and hub size as its AW11 predecessor, its contemporary Corolla, and all four-bolt Miatas, so it's very easy to find a set of cheap 14" Craigslist wheels and slap some narrow snow tires on them.

Someone Else's Projects > Tohru 12/27/2014 at 13:12

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It also happens at a lower speed in a low-traction scenario so it'll be easier to catch and/or less dangerous.

terpsman65 > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 13:19

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Loved my Miata in the winter. LSD and a set of blizzaks and I was commuting 65 mile one way in Western NY in winter. Still miss that car.

Matsayz > imadeaburner 12/27/2014 at 13:26

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I picked up a '98 classic paid way more than you but it's in great shape but all original parts. Replaced radiator, all hoses, water pump and t-stat by myself with minimal vehicle knowledge. Now I know I know those parts are good to go. Replace the radiator with an Autozone or something, super easy and cheap. YouTube has TONS of videos.

Andrew Baumea > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/27/2014 at 13:26

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I had a Fiero that was my daily driver a few years ago. It was kind of fun. They like it under steer sometimes and other times the rear just snaps into massive oversteer. I had decent all season tires on it and they did nothing in the snow. I then got some snow tires and it never got stuck. I did spin it out a hand full of times as well as understeer into some snow banks though.

Justin Hughes > imadeaburner 12/27/2014 at 13:29

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I learned to drive in my mom's 87 Cherokee Larado. Frame rust tends to kill these, but the Cherokees are good.

Justin Hughes > Viggen 12/27/2014 at 13:31

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I bitched and moaned intelligently discussed this in another article .

Nobi > Ad_absurdum_per_aspera 12/27/2014 at 13:38

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Much. You can actually unbolt this lever on the side of the RT4WD's transmission and deselect 4wd (or do the easier thing and just take the driveshaft out) and I want to say you gain a good 3-4 mpg. There's THAT MUCH drag on the drivetrain. I guess Honda made the rear diff gears turn slightly faster than the front diff gears. While it does this, the viscous clutch in the center of the driveshaft freewheels. Once the front wheels slip and its speed catches up to or passes the rear wheels, the clutch starts to grab, and you get 4WD. You can definitely feel the drag when driving though. Rolling down a 15-20% grade, you LOSE speed.

Rykros the Disdainful - Supposed Petulant Capitulant Junkie > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 13:39

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For some reason, the Foresters love to eat rear wheel bearings. The rears on mine need to be done, since they are groaning. Spring...

Additionally, as it turns out, over the Summer the heater core (somehow) got clogged and that caused it to overheat again, due to lack of a sufficient bypass systems on those engines for some inexplicable reason. So bear in mind that whether or not the headgasket HAS been done, get that system flushed out ASAP and make sure there's no blockage in the core.

As an aside: the headgaskets were replaced because the vehicle started with the much more "sigh of relief"-worthy external coolant leak, versus internal.

Justin Hughes > Ad_absurdum_per_aspera 12/27/2014 at 13:39

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I've owned both. Yes, it was. The FWD wagon was essentially a DX trim Civic. The RT4WD was a beast of its own, but to handle the extra weight and drain on the motor, they dropped in a D16A6 - the Si motor! It was far slower than an Si, of course, but it was a lot of fun, as you can see me having in the leading pic.

Justin Hughes > Someone Else's Projects 12/27/2014 at 13:47

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My AW11's winter wheels were from a 90s Ford Escort. Perfect fit.

CaptainBoss > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 13:48

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First generation Durangos make awesome cheap winter cars. You can find them all over the place for $2k-$4k, and the true 4WD is unstoppable.

Viggen > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 13:49

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I wish there was just more leniency with the MA inspection. It's one of the reasons I don't want to move back after I leave the Army. I love MA, but the state inspection and Worcester ruin it for me.

medhat1 > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 13:50

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I had a '91 Civic AWD Wagon like in the picture, it as awesome. But it wasn't the 4wd that limited it in the snow, it was the go-kart sized wheels (painted white steel, 'da bomb!) and the Civic+ ground clearance. A wonderful car, sold it to a social worker who babied it for years more.

Justin Hughes > Viggen 12/27/2014 at 13:54

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Kelley Square is enough to scare anyone away from Worcester.

Justin Hughes > medhat1 12/27/2014 at 13:57

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14" steelies were big for a Civic at the time! Mine were all scratched and rusted when I got the car. A friend let me use the bead blaster at his shop, and I repainted them dark grey as you see in the lead pic. People often thought they were alloys, not repainted stock steelies.

Viggen > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 13:58

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Driver's Ed instructor had me go through Kelly Square twice.

Actually, gives me an idea for a post.

Wa192 > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 14:03

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1992 Geo tracker, 4x4 less than 100k and 5 speed man. New tires, top and garage kept. 1000.00. Perfect for winter driving in ATL

Autofixation > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 14:16

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The All-Trac Corollas are supposed to be pretty good in the snow, too.

Justin Hughes > Autofixation 12/27/2014 at 14:22

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The All-Trac Celicas were awesome rally cars. The All-Trac Corolla wagons were awesome "get anything to anywhere at anytime in any weather conditions" cars.

Years ago in a Happy Meal I got a toy Tercel SR5 that had been given the monster truck treatment. It was pretty hilarious.

I probably did it > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 14:26

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I work on Route 9 just over the line from Worcester...can confirm, nothing good about the area at all!

The doctoR53 > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 14:28

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Don't care still want

Justin Hughes > The doctoR53 12/27/2014 at 14:31

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I've always thought the Suzuki X90 looked like the bastard lovechild of a Sidekick and a Miata.

The doctoR53 > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 14:33

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there's one sitting at my girlfruebds fathers apartment. 5 speed 4WD. So much want

imadeaburner > Matsayz 12/27/2014 at 14:40

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I've done radiators before. just too lazy and cheap right now lol

I've done rad's in hummers pickups random other cars, did on in my MR2....that sucked.

imadeaburner > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 14:41

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Luckily mine is solid, I'm gonna undercoat it eventually if I don't blow it up this winter.

MK6GTI-now with added Miata > CaptainBoss 12/27/2014 at 14:47

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But they rust like crazy, meaning you may only get one winter out of it.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > Tohru 12/27/2014 at 14:59

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My MR2 is easier to control in a snow slide than my Cressida wagon. Just saying.

Zr2s10Rick > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/27/2014 at 14:59

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I knew a guy in high school that drove a Fiero, he said it did great in the winter time. He drove it every day, and it was a donut machine, but could still get around when he was careful with it.

Mikey-poo > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 15:13

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@subaru seller:

foxbird87 > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 15:28

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if you don't want to sacrifice luxury but you can only afford a beater, you can do no better than a Lincoln town car. All the benefits of the Crown Vic, minus the limited slip, but it's plenty capable without it. I picked up my 94 for 750 bucks and besides a few electrical glitches, everything works. I put a set of cheap Cooper weathermaster winter tires on the rear, and the thing has never gotten stuck, even though I managed to drive through literally every major snowstorm in Minnesota last year. Plus, it's hilarious fun to hoon a grandpa-mobile.

wilderthanthehate > SprungColossal 12/27/2014 at 15:30

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you and I obviously have a different definition of reliable. parts are HARD to get for 4.9s and they eat up out-of-production cooling system components like it's nobody's business.

Bomtrombone > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 15:48

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On mine I replaced each one of the power window units twice. Good times!

Maldrien > The doctoR53 12/27/2014 at 16:08

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There's one selling for cheap in Quebec close to the US border. http://www.kijiji.ca/v-autos-camion…

leaky front brakes & need a new floor on the driver side.

Still a nice winter beater

CaptainBoss > MK6GTI-now with added Miata 12/27/2014 at 16:10

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True, rust is an issue, but the post-facelift ones (chrome grilles and plastic bumpers) are a bit less rust-prone. Still, winter beater trucks are supposed to be a little rusty.

jesda > SprungColossal 12/27/2014 at 16:50

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My 4.9L 1992 Seville STS was a BEAST in the snow. I took it on trips between Washington and Missouri, often taking the northern route through South Dakota, and it was completely unstoppable.

Temps got down to -26F at times. I ran over a tire abandoned on I-90 in the middle of the night and other than a loud thump, I kept on motoring. The heater was strong and the seats were oh-so-comfortable. I wandered through some rural mountain roads in Montana to see a friend on the way. No chains, no snow tires, just solid engineering. Before I took ownership, it spent its existence in NYC, beat to death as the previous owners slammed into dark near everything including, according to records, some kind of urban stump.

I bought it with 137k and finally unloaded it at 200k about four years ago. I checked the Carfax and found that it was STILL registered and running somewhere in Nebraska!

SprungColossal > wilderthanthehate 12/27/2014 at 17:43

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Knock on wood but mines getting on 300k km and has been rock-solid since i've owned it (about 3 years, winter driving only)

SprungColossal > jesda 12/27/2014 at 17:44

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Glad to see someone else has had a positive experience with these cars; they're certainly not sporty but they're comfy for long highway trips! Highway mileage has been very surprisingly good as well!

Detroit 9000 > foxbird87 12/27/2014 at 17:46

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Most of my friends in high school had Ford management dad's with company lease cars. There must have even a good deal on the 1994 Town Car leases. Two of them had dark blue TCs that kicked ass in the snow. I was always given the keys and we tore up the west Detroit suburbs (Plymouth/Canton/Northville). My dad company leased a 1989 TC , but that was years before I could drive.

MK6GTI-now with added Miata > CaptainBoss 12/27/2014 at 18:26

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True. Depends on what's rusty. If the frame is bad, it shouldn't be on the road. If the fenders and bumpers are rusty, it'll still pass inspection and won't be too dangerous.

StalePhish > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/27/2014 at 18:44

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My very first winter as a licensed driver was in a 1984 Fiero. And I didn't crash! The main concern was ground clearance. I would slide on the snow like a beached whale!

avboden > 44444444444 12/27/2014 at 19:16

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The AWD is a lot better than people give it credit for. I've got a 1998 V70R that i've literally pulled suburbans out of ditches with. The only time it's ever gotten stuck was when I parked it sideways on a hill, it rained and there was an inch thick of ice on top of the snow, the car slid sideways a little bit and a chunk of ice high-centered the car.

It's made it in and out of lots on VERY steep hills to rescue friends, pull down the hill into the lot, stuck jeeps, stuck trucks, everyone is stuck. Snow is up to my headlights, the volvo keeps on plowing through, My friends pile in, call me a retard and state i'll never make it back up the hill, I line up, go for it, chugga chugga chugga some wheel spin and out I go. I look back, there are guys standing on top of their trucks absolutely dumbfounded, I wave and leave.

dunlop wintersport 3d tires ftw.

I should also mention, the rudimentary traction control on these models that activates the ABS of each individual wheel with slippage is actually VERY effective, while still letting me power through slides.

CaptainBoss > MK6GTI-now with added Miata 12/27/2014 at 19:48

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Valid point; most of the ones in CT start by rotting through the fenders and quarters before the frame becomes unsafe. I grabbed a rust-free 2003 SLT Plus 5.9 this September to use as a winter beater, and it did take a few tries before I could find one without any rust.

MK6GTI-now with added Miata > CaptainBoss 12/27/2014 at 19:54

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Yeah, my friend's family had issues on the tailgate and bumpers, but was otherwise decent. On the other hand, I saw a Dakota on Craigslist that had the leaf shackles rust out and break which shot the springs through the bed and pushed the bedliner up. Pretty wild. Makes me feel quite old actually, I remember when those Durangos first came out!

Alex Feinman > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 21:33

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Strange how these are all magically cars you've owned / co-owned / driven...

Justin Hughes > Alex Feinman 12/27/2014 at 22:08

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I've had a lot of cheap cars, it's true.

Josh G > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 22:51

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This was my favorite winter drifter, but not the fastest... Tiny nokians, euro 323i, I often wonder what happened to that car, it kinda feels like the one that got away. Consider this my shoutout to he universe.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/whydoyo…

Justin Hughes > Josh G 12/27/2014 at 22:57

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Nice! I loved my US spec 320i. It was my first project car.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/my-first-proje…

KAG25 > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 23:22

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Just get a set of good snow tires, lived in Utah for a few decades with FWD cars and I am fine

Josh G > Justin Hughes 12/27/2014 at 23:55

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That's awesome, I don't think I have done a write-up of my 323i ownership, I should they can be exciting cars to drive as an enthusiast. I was lucky to have an LSD and the rasp of that dual exhaust was something special.

Damn you winter I want one of these mornings....

TheReno > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/27/2014 at 23:55

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As far as a winter car in a snowy area, it's better than an FR but not as good as an FF or AWD. The weight over the drive wheels is nice. Means you can accelerate without spinning the wheels as much. The problem is, your brakes that do the stopping are usually in the front, as is the steering. So, a MR doesn't steer (in longer MR cars like NSX, not so much a problem in MR2s) or brake as easy in winter as an FF or FR. To be honest, I find those more important features than actually going faster. Another downfall of MR, is like RR in winter, any bit of oversteer will send it for a spin.

As far as order, best to worst layout, AWD/4WD-FF-MR-FR-RR. But even that is subject to the actual vehicle in question. Like a CRX vs. a BMW 540i, that's an FF and an FR, that BMW will be better just because it has 50-50 weight distribution and is heavy while that light CRX will slide easy. Put snow tires on that BMW and it will churn through snow like a tank.

But then also, any car can be a winter car if you know how to drive it correctly for the conditions. ( I live in Ohio, my winter beater for a while was a 1978 Camaro, never wrecked it, never spun it, it served me fine)

OutOfHere > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/28/2014 at 00:19

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My ex-wife had a 4 cylinder Fiero and it was quite good (with the OEM tires) in the snow.

Kinja'd Again > Justin Hughes 12/28/2014 at 01:32

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(Modern-ish) Mini Coopers on snow tires are SO MUCH FUN IN WINTER.

Steve in Manhattan > Justin Hughes 12/28/2014 at 03:14

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I drove a new Civic AWD wagon back in the 80s - capable little car. Not a bad beater, I'd think ....

BenLikesCars > MK6GTI-now with added Miata 12/28/2014 at 03:16

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Adopt an Australian accent, and be, like, "A Durango ate your baby?"

Coalman > jkm7680 12/28/2014 at 03:33

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Convinced myself to really look for an older Quattro (90, 100, etc. you know mid 80s-early 90s) but they are getting harder to find. Especially in decent shape. It seems to me seem of the parts are either getting harder to find and/or expensive. But then, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it as they say.

Coalman > Justin Hughes 12/28/2014 at 03:39

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Brings back memories of our family's old '89. Also learned most of my early driving in that old beast. Even back in my youth I had no idea how to fix anything really and still managed to figure out a few issues that came up before finally giving up and selling it. It was getting the usual rot around the rear of the rockers and tire well.

Seems kind of difficult finding them in manual tho.

Coalman > 44444444444 12/28/2014 at 04:00

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My Volvo pal has what I believe is a 2000 S70 (sedan version) and it's been a bit of a headache. Mentioned starting for MY99 they had a recall on the intake, which is now expired, so if it hadn't been done when the recall was active it's a fairly expensive part. Then for his particular year they changed the tranny, but it was ONLY for that one year. So again, parts are kind of expensive and hard to come by as most catalogs don't reflect that.

He absolutely loves his '97 850 so far. Think he's planning on actually adding the AWD system to it. Told me to keep an eye out for old 740s as some came with Limited slip diffs.

Coalman > The doctoR53 12/28/2014 at 04:10

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Aw man, saw one a while ago on CL for super NP and then a couple months later another for super CP price! Was tempted by the first one but I dunno; had a friend who actually flipped a Sidekick years ago in the winter. Was lucky to walk away but still had some long-term psych issues. Granted it was mostly his fault for going to fast around a corner but damned if I couldn't get it out of my head yaknow?

44444444444 > Coalman 12/28/2014 at 08:17

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All of the 1999-2001 Volvos suffered from premature throttle body failure. Almost all have been replaced and if it hasn't the replacement ones can be found on eBay for $70-100.

44444444444 > avboden 12/28/2014 at 08:18

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In comparison to the P2 AWD it's not as good but yeah you're right for a rudimentary AWD a system it works rather well. Snowtires help too!

Justin Hughes > Kinja'd Again 12/28/2014 at 10:34

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I'm not a big FWD fan but I'd rock a Mini. Any car that, straight off the showroom floor, can slalom faster than my old Miata on R-compounds has something going for it. True story - I would never have believed it if I wasn't driving that Mini myself.

EdWunclerJr > 44444444444 12/28/2014 at 11:07

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It's only cheap till the transmission takes a crap and it will.

44444444444 > EdWunclerJr 12/28/2014 at 12:06

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You're thinking of the 5 speed auto cars from 2000-2004. The 5 speed auto was only in the 2000 V70R and all of the P2 cars (2001-2003 had tranny issues).

All of the P80 XC's have a 4 speed AW50-42 from the 850 not the AW55 from the P2 cars.

avboden > 44444444444 12/28/2014 at 13:13

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'98 FTW, bulletproof 4speed on the AWD cars and mechanical throttle body. Keep the PCV good and it'll run for ages.

The doctoR53 > Maldrien 12/28/2014 at 13:16

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lol yea I'll just drive to Canada for a x90 LOLOLOLOL

44444444444 > avboden 12/28/2014 at 13:30

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I feel ya but the 98 cars are so much more expensive! You can buy a 2000 V70XC SE for 1k... The ETM issue is way overblown and has been for the last 16 years. Buy a 99-2000 car and swap the ETM for a yellow label one of eBay for $80. Same transmission, but with sensors that are compatible with the P2 cars... So if you have 2 P2 Volvos and 2 1999-2000 P80 Volvos a lot swaps between them. Not so with a 98 to 99

Coalman > 44444444444 12/28/2014 at 17:08

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Ahh, thanks for the clarification. It was late and couldn't recall exactly what the issue it was. My buddy not only worked at a dealership for a bit but has had Volvo's going back from the 80's and is on Turbobricks enough to know these things off the top of his head. Maybe because he was thinking of dealership prices that he made it sound pricier. His transmission is still an oddity tho to the point that he had to call up a specialty shop to finally get the right part (think it was a rebuilt valve body and landed up costing like $6-700 IIRC).

In spite of all that when the S70 is working he does like how the AWD performs.

44444444444 > Coalman 12/28/2014 at 17:20

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Yeah, an ETM from Volvo is $1k... Is his a 5 speed auto?

Maldrien > Maldrien 12/28/2014 at 18:09

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SOLD!! So who bought it?

BiPolarWithCars > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/28/2014 at 22:54

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Google "snap oversteer"

Synthetic1 > Justin Hughes 12/28/2014 at 23:10

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I bought an 88 cherokee I6 5 speed for a winter beater. It is a blast to drive I'm actually looking forward to snow.

reidlos > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/29/2014 at 07:48

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This is my first winter with the AW11 and really i haven't had any issues. This is my first car with snow tires too and that kinda makes it the best snow car I've had. Sure the back gets out a bit, its not that its hard to get back in line, its just that it can happen so fast and the response required is different. You can't panic and brake, that makes it worse, you have to apply a bit of gas to transfer weight back and get traction again. But again too much and now you're understeering. Fortunately for me with Winter tires the limits of traction are higher than that of my Mazda2 on all seasons.

wilderthanthehate > SprungColossal 12/29/2014 at 12:08

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I've owned mine for almost 8 years now, and in non-accident related repairs, it has seen over 13k dollars of repair and maintenance. Next time it goes into the shop might break 3 grand. I wouldn't still have it if I didn't like it, but the single digit fuel economy and astronomical repair prices mean that I'd never recommend one to somebody else.

SprungColossal > wilderthanthehate 12/29/2014 at 14:45

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Wow, that stinks man.

Bought mine for $700, put mayyybe $300 worth of parts into it to get it road worthy, and haven't had a single thing fail otherwise. I've never heard of someone else having such a bad experience with the 4.9l... the Northstar, on the other hand, is one of the least-reliable engines ever made.

wilderthanthehate > SprungColossal 12/30/2014 at 04:00

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lol, my 07 northstar has never been to the shop, ever. The serious problem point with the 4.9 is lack of coolant system part availability. ever want it to be in the shop for 3 weeks straight? the massive burns on my feet from a heater core failure were also no fun, that is a terrible design, when it fails it all dumps into the driver footwell.