I am confused..

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390) 12/23/2014 at 14:09 • Filed to: I'm confused

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I always thought horsepower and sportscars and supercars were the thing, but does horsepower really matter in cars? Does high horsepower really mean anything? And by extension, do supercars and hypercars really matter? What's the point of them and high horepowered cars, or is it just a gentlemen sausage contest?? If so, why are we all not DD'ing 100 econoboxes and green fuel economy stuff? I am much confused.

What's the point of cars like these? I mean I still like them, but what's the point of them? Are they a waste of money? Is there even a right or wrong answer? Exactly how much power is really needed? How much is too much? I mean I get people wanna go fast, but is that everything? Does going fast really mean that much?

Cherry_man1 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:11

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People want to go fast, people want speed, HP sells cars, Torque wins races. It's called people want the past back.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Cherry_man1 12/23/2014 at 14:14

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But I was told going fast doesn't matter...Nothing makes sense to me anymore :(

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:14

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Horsepower numbers only mattered to me when I was 16. Now I know better. To me, numbers in general are pretty meaningless on a car. You can always modify the car to make more power. You can't always modify the car to make it not-crap.

William Byrd > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:14

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It's sort of like the sausage, it depends on what you do with it. :)

Personally I enjoy driving a 400hp car, have had one as a daily driver a couple of times. Whether more is better, I'm not sure. I like to think so, been looking at used CTS-Vs.

Coty > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:14

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I have a 50hp Beetle and a 252hp Focus ST. You don't need horsepower to enjoy a car, but it certainly doesn't hurt.

GeorgeyBoy > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:15

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Why do we live if we are just going to die?

EL_ULY > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:16

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Go fast and kickass!!!!!!!!!

I like this...

but the closest I'll get to driving that is..

You're thinking too hard. Calm down and RACECAR!!!!!

crowmolly > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:17

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In some way I think it's a way that people try to quantify "fun and exciting to drive". Sort of a measuring stick. If 400hp is fun, 600hp should be MORE fun. If this car does the 'ring at 7:45 then the car that does 7:30 should be MORE fun.

We know it's certainly not that simple, as anyone who has gone FULL RACE PARTS will tell you.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:18

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What's the point of cars like these?
Pleasure, status, and/or gentleman sausage contest.

I mean I still like them, but what's the point of them?
To exist in their own ridiculousness and meet whatever point the owner sees fit.

Are they a waste of money?
Objectively: Absolutely.
Subjectively: If it makes you happy, then the value is whatever you're willing to spend on something that makes you happy.

Is there even a right or wrong answer?
Not really. It's very subjective.

Exactly how much power is really needed?
Enough to have fun. For some that's 200hp (me in my FR-S), and for others it's 1000+hp in their heavily modded MKIV Supra

How much is too much?
More than the driver can handle.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > GeorgeyBoy 12/23/2014 at 14:18

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I don't know anymore...

Cherry_man1 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:18

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Going fast matters, always. Fast in corner, fast in a line, fast is fast. People like fast, people like the sensation of speed. People like raw power.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > EL_ULY 12/23/2014 at 14:18

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Because I'm being made to think too hard, and I don't understand anything.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/23/2014 at 14:19

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Power-to-weight ratios!!!

Gamecat235 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:19

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Does the size of a house matter? The flavor of your food? The quality of your clothes? The speed of your computer?

GeorgeyBoy > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:19

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Why do we drive on parkways and park on driveways?

EL_ULY > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:21

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just understand that speed and performance is fun :] People want fun.

Supply and demand.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Gamecat235 12/23/2014 at 14:21

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Yes, it does.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > GeorgeyBoy 12/23/2014 at 14:21

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I have too much in my brain to answer....-_-

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:22

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Power is not really matters. Lightness and chassis and suspension however..

I've driven a car that has 30hp all the way to 1000hp. Yet the most enjoyable one is something that has about 300hp and weighs 700kg..

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > EL_ULY 12/23/2014 at 14:22

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But is there ever too much fun? Is there ever enough?

Frosted > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:23

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Horsepower doesn't matter.

Power to weight does.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Gamecat235 12/23/2014 at 14:24

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The flavor of my computer, OTOH, is total crap. My food is also really slow and just sits there.

Gamecat235 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:25

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Pretty much the same idea here.

You can buy a one room cottage with a screened off restroom or an outhouse or you can buy a 5 bedroom 3 bath ranch style house that is 2200 sq ft.

Just like you can buy a Nissan Versa (completely capable car, will get you from point A to point B) or a C7 Z06. It all depends on what you are after and where your priorities lie.

Little Black Coupe Turned Silver > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:25

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Too much fun = hit a wall. So yes...

EL_ULY > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:27

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K-roll, buddy, WTF are you talking about lol :]

Look there is a time and a place for these cars if that is something you like. Depends on the person. Live and let live! Stop worrying about what others think and do. Do what you like and live your life.

but why?

ARRRGHHH!!!

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Gamecat235 12/23/2014 at 14:27

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Oversimplifying it a bit because it removes weight from the equation. Yes, you can buy the big house, but you might have to share it with your in-laws. On the other hand, you might have to share the cottage with them too.

deekster_caddy > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:27

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Torque, it's torque that matters. HP is just a byproduct number used by marketing departments. Torque is what makes you say "Wheeeee"

Saying "Wheeeee" while driving is very important. If you can't do that, why bother. All of my cars go "Wheeeee". The Volt with the electric torque, my wife's '08 Passat Wagon with it's turbo 2.0 and 6 speed manual, my '73 Buick with it's big torquey tire shredding 455, and my '54 MG which doesn't go fast at all, but feels really fast (!)... all go "Wheeeee". It's a necessary part for any automotive enthusiast, and to create new enthusiasts. Otherwise we'll all end up driving Geo Metros and Yugos.

djmt1 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:28

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People want to drive fast since it is pretty much the last taboo besides hookers and drugs (regional restrictions may apply). So yeah I would say those cars have a point in existing.

Jayhawk Jake > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:28

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How do you define what matters?

Going fast doesn't matter, no, not really. But there's nothing wrong with enjoying going fast.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > EL_ULY 12/23/2014 at 14:29

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I'm sorry... :(

Gamecat235 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/23/2014 at 14:29

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Naturally, but asking whether horsepower really matters is oversimplifying a question as well. It depends on what you want (or can afford) out of the car. Just like it depends on what you want (or can afford) with most everything else.

deekster_caddy > GeorgeyBoy 12/23/2014 at 14:31

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Well thanks. I'm selling all my cars and going to walk everywhere from now on.

claramag, Mustaco Master > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:31

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You must be new here, it's all about FUN. And SHOWING OFF. And SAUSAGES. MEN AND THEIR LOVE OF SAUSAGES.

RACECAR

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jayhawk Jake 12/23/2014 at 14:31

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If I were to define it for me, so long as I'm having fun, that's what matters.

spanfucker retire bitch > EL_ULY 12/23/2014 at 14:31

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That's hardly a bad compromise. The Z06 makes so much more power than the C7.R.

EL_ULY > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:32

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Nooo now I feel bad!

deekster_caddy > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/23/2014 at 14:34

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If your in-laws are that close you'd better forget the fun cars and buy a minivan!

Jayhawk Jake > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:35

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Well, power doesn't necessarily mean fun. If your initial question is 'does horsepower matter for having fun?' I'd answer with a resounding no. My 170ish hp car is way more fun than a 300hp V6 Mustang. I've had an absolute blast driving low power Miata's and hated driving powerful SUVs.

To answer your question about the point of powerful sports cars: they're fun for some people. Is there a point to it? Sure, the point is to sell cars to people that want them.

EL_ULY > spanfucker retire bitch 12/23/2014 at 14:36

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Z06 has more power but C7.R is a racecar and will obliterate a street Z06

In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you > deekster_caddy 12/23/2014 at 14:38

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So if torque is what makes fun, than how come a Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins ISB is not the best driving car.

/s

spanfucker retire bitch > EL_ULY 12/23/2014 at 14:38

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Yes, but how often do you get to brag that your street legal version has more power than the race car version? I feel like that'd be a fun little tidbit to share.

EL_ULY > spanfucker retire bitch 12/23/2014 at 14:39

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true true.

ly2v8-Brian > GeorgeyBoy 12/23/2014 at 14:40

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42

yamahog > Little Black Coupe Turned Silver 12/23/2014 at 14:43

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BUT IF YOU AINT FIRST, YOU'RE LAST!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jayhawk Jake 12/23/2014 at 14:46

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That's the answer I was looking for.

deekster_caddy > In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you 12/23/2014 at 14:49

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Haha, well... for starters a Ram 2500 is not a car. But get in one and floor it. Does it spin the tires? Does it make you go Wheeee? Then maybe it's good enough. Doesn't do it for you? Need something that corners better? Then that's not the ride for you, look for the Mustang or Camaro shown above. HP is a calculation of torque and RPM. My cars aren't the best driving cars, but they all have a Wheeee factor of some kind! The 2.0 4 cyl in the big Passat Wagon still rocks it when you spool it up, it's fun to make a pass on the highway and let the turbo push you back in the seat even if it's not going to win any drag races. The 455 has a torque peak around 3000 RPM, and builds up quickly, right off the line so even a 7,000 lb car gets up and goes impressively. Even my old Yukon XL had a Wheeeee factor, and it was the torque from the 8.1 V8 that made it passable as a DD. Plus it could tow stuff without complaining.

Doesn't mean has to be the fastest, or best handling, or best whatever, just that it's enjoyable on some level. Otherwise you are driving that econobox mentioned above. For me it's the acceleration and/or cornering abilities that make me smile when I drive. Would I love to be driving a Murcielago? Sure I would. But as long as I can get a little bit of Wheeeee from my DD I'll survive.

Justin Hughes > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 12/23/2014 at 14:49

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BRZ driver here, and like you I'm happy with my 200. How angry do you get at journalists who call our cars underpowered and slow? They're missing the point.

In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you > deekster_caddy 12/23/2014 at 14:53

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the joke

Your head.

Because the Ram 2500 6.7 ISB makes 850lbft

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 14:53

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Sounds like K-Roll is having an existential crisis, most commonly brought on by the act of consuming mind altering substances and asking questions about the meaning of life.

Don't worry, K-Roll. This shall pass and these questions fade into the back of your mind. The world will remain the same and all will be okay. Horsepower and the meaning of life are so abstract, man. It's best to just let some things remain unanswered. You feel?

deekster_caddy > In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you 12/23/2014 at 14:55

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I found a list of cars by "Torque to weight ratio". Under $25K, they are all reasonably fun cars!

Under $25,000 – Pounds Per Pound-Foot

2015 Volkswagen GTI ($24,995) – 11.519

2014 Ford Focus ST ($23,625) – 11.937

2015 Ford Mustang V6 ($23,600) – 12.593

2015 Volkswagen Golf TDI ($21,995) – 13.051

2014 Mini Cooper S Hardtop ($24,100) – 13.333

2015 Chevy Camaro V6 ($23,705) – 13.378

2014 Ford Fiesta ST ($21,400) – 13.465

2015 Volkswagen Beetle TDI ($24,595) – 13.517

2015 Volkswagen Jetta TDI ($21,295) – 13.73

2014 Hyundai Veloster Turbo R-Spec ($21,600) – 14.359

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/10/07/top…

In the "Under $50K" list, there is a surprise in the middle...

Under $50,000 – Pounds Per Pound-Foot

2015 Ford F-250 Super Duty ($39,525) – 7.662

2015 Chevy Sliverado 3500HD ($42,000) – 8.596

2014 Ram 3500 ($39,070) ­– 8.631

2015 Chevy Spark EV ($27,645) – 8.765

2015 Dodge Challenger SRT 392 ($45,995) – 8.907

2014 Ram 2500 ($38,295) – 9.095

2015 Ford Mustang GT ($32,100) – 9.263

2014 Dodge Charger SRT ($47,385) – 9.272

2015 Chevy Camaro SS ($34,500) – 9.305

2014 Chevy SS ($43,475) – 9.578

2015 Volvo S60 T6 R-Design ($43,550) – 9.966

The Chevy Spark!

deekster_caddy > In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you 12/23/2014 at 14:57

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Oops. I get it, but they don't exactly handle well, which is a deal breaker for some.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 12/23/2014 at 14:58

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In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you > deekster_caddy 12/23/2014 at 15:03

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Damn! The Ram is a sham when it comes lbft per dollars mam.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Justin Hughes 12/23/2014 at 15:04

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Every time I hear someone complain about power, I tell them they're either looking at the wrong car or not driving it like it's meant to be.

The cars were designed with balance in mind; everything works in harmony. 200hp is plenty to get these things moving around the track quickly, and allow you to really enjoy the car on the road too. Just like the AE86, that was the inspiration for the Toyobarus, you don't need a lot of power to be fast or have fun.

Justin Hughes > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 12/23/2014 at 15:08

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I come from a long history of NA 1.6 Miatas. 200hp feels like a lot compared to the 116 I'm used to!

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 15:13

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Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Justin Hughes 12/23/2014 at 15:17

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My first car was a 2000 Corolla, follow by an '05 4Runner. The 4Runner had significantly more power, but obviously nowhere near the handling. The FR-S is much faster than my previous cars. I've driven much more powerful cars too, and am still incredibly happy with the performance of my ZN6.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 15:19

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So, I'd call this a muscle car.

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 15:35

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It's whatever you like. Some people like light cars with less than 200HP. Some people care about power more than anything else. It's all personal preference.

I think variety is fun. If you only have one car and it has 500 HP then you'll just get used to the power and it won't feel special anymore. But if you had that car and a Miata then switching back and forth would be super fun because the cars would be so different.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) 12/23/2014 at 15:42

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James Franco has taught me nothing.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/23/2014 at 15:42

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Yes

deekster_caddy > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 16:02

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The faster you can go around a corner, the less you had to slow down, so the less you have to accelerate again. That means you'll get better MPG! Hypermiling!

deekster_caddy > djmt1 12/23/2014 at 16:04

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regional restrictions exceptions may apply

ftfy

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 16:21

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This.

It's amazing how quickly you can normalize to high-powered cars. After the initial thrill of the power had faded, having a car that is visceral and tactile keeps it interesting and engaging for much longer.

Manuél Ferrari > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/23/2014 at 16:25

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Variety is the spice of life!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 17:08

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Picked up a '03 Pathfinder for winter/camping/dogs/kayaks a couple months ago and I definitely appreciate driving the M3 more now. I wasn't getting tired of it or anything, but you just get used to it - the power, the handling, the connection, everything. Now after I've driven the Pathfinder a couple days in a row, I get back in my car and really notice how special it is.

Manuél Ferrari > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/23/2014 at 17:12

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oh good call

An M3 isn't great for those types of activities

And every time you switch back its almost like when you first got the M3. All it takes is a weekend away from it to forget how awesome it is.

We can't get the X1 with Manuél in the US, can we? I want one

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 17:15

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No idea on the X1. Have you driven one? Had a loaner once and wasn't terribly impressed.

Manuél Ferrari > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/23/2014 at 17:28

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I'm glad u told me!

I've never driven one

I should stop thinking about it until I actually drive it

I had read positive reviews

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 17:42

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Yeah, go get a drive in one and let me know what you think.

I may be a bad judge, because I've pretty much disliked all the loaners I've had from BMW.

Wait. The 750i wasn't too shabby - ha!

Manuél Ferrari > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/23/2014 at 18:35

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Haha! I've never driven a 7 Series. How was it? Did it feel like a land yacht?

CRider > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 18:53

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Nothing matters. Our lives don't even matter. Everything is just bullshit built to entertain us until we die.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > CRider 12/23/2014 at 18:54

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Seriously? ;_;

CRider > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 18:59

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Yes. You're here, you may as well enjoy the ride. That's why these cars exist.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > CRider 12/23/2014 at 19:03

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I'm so insignificantly worthless..

CRider > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 19:41

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That's not where I was going at all.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Manuél Ferrari 12/23/2014 at 19:42

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Yeah, pretty much. It was huge.

Manuél Ferrari > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/23/2014 at 19:45

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I heard it still drives better than an S Class

The old saying goes:

Buy the 7 Series if you like to drive

Buy the S Class if you have a driver

Or something like that

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > CRider 12/23/2014 at 19:56

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Then what? :(

CRider > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/23/2014 at 20:25

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You're no more insignificant than anyone else. We;re ALL useless, and helpless, and 700hp cars help us forget that.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/24/2014 at 03:30

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My truck has only 160hp, but it has 210lb feet. So in 1st and second gear if you just hammer on it, it throws you back into your seat. Horsepower means nothing

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Cherry_man1 12/24/2014 at 03:33

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Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 12/24/2014 at 03:36

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Kroll, do you. Buy a car because you feel good driving it, not because you look good driving it. If you buy it for looks, you will never truly be happy with it

Cherry_man1 > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 12/24/2014 at 11:02

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Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Cherry_man1 12/24/2014 at 11:38

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