Imagine if MB had adapted a Getrag manual to the 6.2 AMG...

"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty) 12/18/2014 at 16:17 • Filed to: None

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Then we'd have a manual C63. Then imagine if they'd adapted the 6.2 to the GT...

We could have 550 normally-aspirated horsepower up front along with a slick-shifting 6MT and hydraulic steering wrapped in this drool-worthy body!

Still a great car, though. I'm not suggesting that it's unfair that they wouldn't cater to the people who are buying Miatas, classic cars, etc. But I'd make the GT more than a (very potent) turbocharged SLS lite to say the least.

Milky > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 12/18/2014 at 16:26

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Or if any of their AMG cars had manuals ….

Sweet Trav > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 12/18/2014 at 16:26

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M156/9 or nothing at all.

The M178 is a shitcity of an engine.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 12/18/2014 at 16:32

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I can't help but feel like that kind of ruins the point......I think MB would be much better served by having the smoothest dual clutch in the world over a manual in their AMG models. Mercedes has been on a tech bender for the past two decades and they put a manual in.......maybe one AMG model? If that? I think the manual C-class and SLK are well done. Simpler cars, just with good materials. So it makes sense for the entry models t have manuals as an option. Put a little fun and flair in it. Just have a really damn good car.

But AMG?.......I'll be the odd one out and say no.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Sweet Trav 12/18/2014 at 16:34

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I agree with your controversial stance on this issue. You throw a tune on your small displacement turbo motor while I throw a set of pipes on the 6.3 and let it scream up to twice the revs of your powerband's sweet spot!

Then there's a supercharger and game over. Realistic plan, here.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Milky 12/18/2014 at 16:36

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Oh boy. The CLK black and SLK55 are both crying out for one. Here's something I don't understand: why can't you fit a supercharger to the SLK's 5.5 that was engineered to run one? I don't know whether it's an issue of room, but you can buy an aftermarket turbo. A supercharger would bolt right up with factory parts, I assume.

This would bother me a lot more if it came with a three pedal alternative to the designed-for-suburbs 7 speed slushbox.

Manuél Ferrari > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 12/18/2014 at 16:37

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If the AMG GT was available with a gated shifter then I would buy it. I would trade in the 997 for it in a heartbeat.

But that will never happen. So no AMG GT for me.

nermal > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 12/18/2014 at 16:37

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But nobody would actually buy one. People who buy overpowered / overpriced MBs that depreciate like rocks aren't going to want a manual.

Manuals are sadly limited to crapcan econoboxes, small sporty cars, muscle cars, Jeeps, and a few trucks. You can add a select few BMWs and Audis, but I doubt you'll be able to even order one in either in 5 yrs.

Tipo Stradale Fever > Sweet Trav 12/18/2014 at 16:39

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Why? Do you already have extensive experience with it, even though it´s brand new. Have there been reliability issues, even though the only car with the M178, the AMG GT, is just for sale? I mean so far the AMG GT is receiving absolutely great reviews by automotive journalists.

C´mon man, we all love the M156 but at least give the M178 a chance to prove itself.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > nermal 12/18/2014 at 16:40

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Exactly. They'll design the enthusiast-oriented parts if they're marketable and sell-able. Which makes the target buyer all the more disappointing.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 12/18/2014 at 16:43

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Well, that's how I felt about this car at first also: as another high-tech AMG competitor. But it has a communicative chassis and tactile steering and everything that would make for an AMG car that's more like an old M car. So that's why I'm disappointed by this in particular; it fights the 911 on the grounds of feel, but neglects to include the two things that would validate that goal. Not that it would sell any more cars, of course.

Milky > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 12/18/2014 at 16:49

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I'd bet the SLK doesn't get a supercharger because its the baby of the range. Wouldn't want it getting too close to the other more expensive options and hell, it doesnt really need one. Its still has a decent amount more power than the Z4 and Cayman/Boxster.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Manuél Ferrari 12/18/2014 at 16:57

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Just give us the crappy 1.8 turbo from the SLK with some cheap wheels and shoddy interior! I want to sit in there and row my own! For some reason the 991 feels off to me.

Sidenote: I'm too young to have cared about the blasphemy that was 996, but the 997 didn't bother me a bit. With the new Cayman and Boxster and the 991 and Macan, Cayenne, Panamera... Porsche seems like a company of technologically-impressive, overpriced caricatures. That was not so when it was 993-928GTS-968, but increasingly I wish that they had stopped at CGT/4.0RS/GT2RS/Boxster Spyder and just made innovative turbocharged-hybrid drivetrain cars as they did with the aircooled engines and RR. I'd like to see it stand for at least something instead of stand with one foot in the door and one foot out. If there weren't a heritage, the 991 would be neither here nor there with driving or styling characteristics as it's a bit sterile looking and consciously curvaceous, no?

nermal > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 12/18/2014 at 16:58

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I asked the googles to show me a Mercedes customer, and this is the result. Do you think any of them know how to work a clutch? Do you trust them in traffic with you if they had to drive a manual?

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Milky 12/18/2014 at 16:58

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I understand that, but I'm referring specifically to the aftermarket. Only turbochargers are available, and I haven't seen one supercharged build. If it were possible, it would be a very easy and reliable modification! The SLK55 is certainly turned up to 11 for what it is.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > nermal 12/18/2014 at 17:03

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I agree.

Mercedes-Benz: The best, or nothing You'll never hate driving less

Manuél Ferrari > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 12/18/2014 at 17:22

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You drove the 991 Manuél? The only 991s I've driven were PDK.

I'm torn on the 991 myself. I talk a lot shit on it because I have a 997. I don't want MY car to be the inferior one, so in my head my car is more of a REAL Porsche.

But something tells me that if I owned a 991 GTS I would be telling everyone how it's the best car ever made and best 911 since the 70s, haha

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Manuél Ferrari 12/18/2014 at 17:34

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No, never driven a 911. Which is probably why I don't like the 991. There's just an irrational dislike that I have for it, which would probably disappear after driving it. I just don't like anything about it aesthetically or comparatively in the context of its predecessors. I still think those four cars will go down as the best modern porsches, but I wouldn't turn down a GTS 7M!

Manuél Ferrari > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 12/18/2014 at 17:56

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Haha you need to come to So Cal and drive my car for research purposes.

I will tell you this about the 991 - it is pretty damn nice to be in. The ride is so much better than all prior 911s. And it's more luxurious. While it's bigger than before it's still small compared to most other modern cars that have 2 front seats and two (albeit tiny) back seats. It's kind of a 'do it all' car for people who no kids or young kids. You could DD the crap out of a 991, even if you live in an area with terrible roads. It's a luxury GT that still handles like a sports car.

PS9 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 12/18/2014 at 18:05

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The more I think about this car, the more it disappoints me. MB used to make supercars that could stand right up to the best in the world, and now they wanna join the line of contenders who want to chase 911s? The 918/P1/F70 trio are revolutionizing that market and stand on the cutting edge of high performance. The i8 is just a tiny step below them in that. Why isn't MB trying to do the same? What's wrong Dr. Z? Can't step up to the world stage without McLaren to hold your hand?

Sweet Trav > Tipo Stradale Fever 12/18/2014 at 18:20

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From the ground up the M178 is a terrible motor, bore/stroke ratio is way off.

In its most powerful form a twin turbo direct injected motor only makes 503 hp. They were getting far more from the lighter M159. Hell even compared to the dinosaur that is the LS7 the M178 is out performed by a pushrod motor.

and I know people love to use the HP/L argument with this engine, HP/L is meaningless, HP/ Weight is what matters in a performance car.

Sweet Trav > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 12/18/2014 at 18:22

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You can't just "throw a tune" on this motor that's what nobody gets, it's 10.5-1 compression already with 17 PSI. any more and something in this engine is going to let go in a bad way.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 12/18/2014 at 18:25

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These are good imaginings.

Tipo Stradale Fever > Sweet Trav 12/18/2014 at 18:55

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Yes. While the stroke is almost the same as the M156, the bore is significantly reduced. This would cause a "breathing" problem for an atmospheric engine (since the valves have less room). However, as you probably know, the M178 has two turbo`s which produce up to 18 psi of boost thus completely negating this problem. Furthermore, this new bore/stroke ratio has a better chamberheight increasing the efficiency of the engine.

Also, horsepower is nice and all, but it´s torque that wins the race. Now, if you look at the torque curves you´ll get an entirely different picture;

M178; look at how freaking flat that curve is. It´s beautifull, especially for a turbo engine..

This is the M159 out of a SLS AMG Black series nonetheless...

spanfucker retire bitch > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 12/18/2014 at 19:24

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Imagine if instead of investing the majority of our GDP in our military, we'd invest it in space exploration and development, in nuclear energy and plasma propulsion?

I too like pondering over hypotheticals that will never happen.

Sweet Trav > Tipo Stradale Fever 12/18/2014 at 19:37

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I see 479 ft/lbs from 1900-5000 rpm. Which is great, however, about 400ft/lbs (if I am reading that dyno pull correct sorry I'm on mobile) from roughly 4k to 6k where that engine would live on a track, while the engine weighs 20lbs more (not including the intercoolers or piping) so we'll be generous and say as a unit the M178 weighs 50lbs more. the fact that the engine *only* outputs 503 hp and 479 torques with all the technology and boost is hilarious. The Cadillac North star with less boost put out 469 hp, and BMW and AUDI are in the mid to upper 500's. Not to mention there is so little room to grow this engine. 10.5-1 with 17.5 psi, you're going to have to put New pistons in it to add more boost. Not to mention the awkwardly mounted turbo can't get much bigger without a custom hood.

And if you look at the numbers produced by the pushrod powered LS7

These are Rwhp numbers, the failure of the M178 becomes even clearer. considering the LS Engine weighs roughly the same as the M159 with half the valves and a quarter of the cams.

Not to mention, If you just lightly boost the M159 or LS7, it will make numbers that far eclipse the M178, for roughly the same weight.

In short, the M178 is sub par to its other Boosted German rivals, and just above water on the M158 and LS7 and MB should be ashamed of that.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > spanfucker retire bitch 12/18/2014 at 20:54

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Haha definitely. Thinking about "what if x car was tailored especially for me" is a lot less frustrating than "what if our government cared about the popilation's quality of life?"

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/21/2014 at 12:04

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We just need to broadcast them into the minds of MB execs. Let's try it during the sunset of the winter solstice.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Manuél Ferrari 12/21/2014 at 12:21

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I've heard that about the 991. One thing that gets me about Porsches is the price. With those profit margins, I'd feel like I'm getting robbed; reminds me of those terrible white plastic Macbooks that cost $200 to make and sold for $1,000. To be honest, I'd probably DD a 964 C4 and have a 993 2S for the weekends, because the 991 really does seem more like a GT car with the engine in the back than a 911's 911. I'd also really enjoy a 997.1 C2S or 997.2 C2 for half the money! The 3.8 in the S also makes a great noise.

Also, I now need to make a trip to SoCal. You know, for science and stuff. By the way, do you still have the E46?

Manuél Ferrari > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 12/21/2014 at 14:20

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you just hit the nail on the head!

The only real problem with Porsche is the price

So many good cars to buy. You can buy used or new. You can go 911 or Cayman. The only problem is that you pay a lot weather buy new or used. By the way I'm using Siri so please excuse typos. It's easier is leave them there than to try to go back and change the word weather.

If you got a 964 then you wouldn't need anything else. I think you'd be perfectly happy with it and not feel the need to get another Porsche.

The reason that their prices suck so bad is because of their recent pricing strategies. In the old days the base car was a good one. But starting in the water cooled era the base car was expensive but gave you very little. The performance was pretty ho-hum compared to less-expensive competition. And the interior amenities were Stark. You have to buy an S model and fill it full of options to get a good car these days. And that will exceed $100,000.

I do still have the E46. And the funny thing is that it totally relate to this conversation. That M3, which came out in either 2001 or 2002 (can't remember) is literally 90% the car that the 2009-2011 997.2 Carrera is. It feels just as fast. The interior has more leather, and better leather. And for we auctioned up it was still cheaper than a no option Carrera. Auctioned up, haha. I said optioned up you stupid Siri.

The only thing that the newer and more expensive Porsche is objectively better at is handling. While the engine is in the wrong place that doesn't really matter. You can really feel the lighter weight when you attack corners in anger. The Porsche has pretty high limits when it comes to handling. And it's not as scary as you would think when you exceed those limits. It only gets scary if you're driving like a total ass hat and cook the corner it three times the speed you should've taken it. Then you do get that famous trailing throttle oversteer. It only happened to me once when the car was pretty new to me. It was scary but I was able to correct and save my bacon. It doesn't just cause instant death these days like the classic ones did