Oppoinions?

"Haimatox" (haimatox) 12/15/2014 at 10:54 • Filed to: None

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A few days ago, I asked Blipshift a question regarding copyright stuff. Namely, would using a modified Chevrolet bow tie logo be infringing upon copyright laws? This is the response they gave me:

Honestly, it's a bit of a delicate balance. If the design is a parody of the original, then it very well may work. If there is no clear parody, it likely will not. We do have a lawyer to review our designs and check for any copyright infringement. Do a little googling and see whatchya come up with pertaining to your design. Be sure to read our terms and agreements before submitting a design to us as well, there is some pertinent information in there!

This response is kind of ambiguous, so I was hoping some people here might be able to help. This is a terrible rough Google Drawing of what it might be something like. I know the may be too rough to understand, so if you have any questions, ask away.

Leadbull > Haimatox 12/15/2014 at 10:57

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It's bothering me that the picture is of an open collar. How does that work?

Also, bow ties are cool.

Haimatox > Leadbull 12/15/2014 at 10:58

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I couldn't find any images of suits with the correct shirt and no bow tie.

Danny Gross > Haimatox 12/15/2014 at 11:01

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You aren't going to, who wears their shirt buttoned all the way up and then puts a jacket on?

Great idea, I hope it gets used!

Leadbull > Haimatox 12/15/2014 at 11:01

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You can choose between "The Hipster" and "The Dorky Professional".

Edit: replied to the wrong thread. Thanks, Kinja.

Haimatox > Danny Gross 12/15/2014 at 11:01

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Thanks. Do you think the bow tie logo might cause issues?

Margin Of Error > Leadbull 12/15/2014 at 11:02

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Yea, verily.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Haimatox 12/15/2014 at 11:02

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The reason their response is ambiguous is because it's a very ambiguous subject. You're dealing with definitions of "parody," and there's a chance that Chevrolet's lawyers (who likely get paid much more handsomely than Blipshift's consulting lawyer) could make a strong case that the design is copyright infringement. It's definitely the sort of thing where seeing the finished design would make it clearer if there's anything to worry about, but I'm guessing you're looking to get an idea of how to design it without it infringing on copyrights. There's tons of information out there on this very subject, but no matter what it will always be a bit of a gray area.

SteveLehto > Haimatox 12/15/2014 at 11:02

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It's not Copyright laws you are worried about: It's trademark. (One is the words of something - the other is the identifying logo, characteristics or "mark" which identifies a product.)

And there is no clear answer. The reason is that GM has a plethora of attorneys who do nothing but run around and protect all their marks. Get on their radar and they are likely to send you a Cease and Desist. I know some car makers are insanely protective of their marks. I knew an attorney who sent the letters on behalf of VW - to places like repair shops that did work on VWs and painted the logo on the fronts of their shops.

Technically speaking, would you be "right" in using the logo as you propose? There's a big enough gray area for Chevrolet to say No if they take umbrage. And a fight like this would be costly. But then again, if they send you the C&D, you can just stop using it and avoid most of the hassle. I doubt they would continue chasing you if you stopped forthwith.

Good luck.

Haimatox > SteveLehto 12/15/2014 at 11:03

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Thanks! I've never really been sure of the difference between trademark and copyright until now.

Haimatox > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 12/15/2014 at 11:04

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I guess I'll just design it and cross my fingers...

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Haimatox 12/15/2014 at 11:06

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Luckily you have the peace of mind that Blipshift will review it. If they reject it for fear of infringing on Chevy's trademark, you could maybe ask them how much more you'd have to change it for it to be acceptable.

Danny Gross > Haimatox 12/15/2014 at 11:12

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Hard to say, you could honestly just make a bowtie with some kind of seam at an angle causing the slanted edges of the chevy bowtie.

Aaron M - MasoFiST > Haimatox 12/15/2014 at 11:13

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When it comes to trademark, what the company is defending is their right to use the mark to sell given products. If Chevrolet sells licensed apparel (which I'm going to guess they do), they'll have good reason to come after you. And they have good reason to, no matter how small you are- any example on the books of a company refusing to pursue a trademark violation reduces their chances of being able to continue enforcing the trademark.

If you were making apparel using the logo of a company that does not sell clothing, and did it in such a way that no one could confuse you for the trademark holder, you'd probably be in the clear. Examples of this which don't already fall under the auspices of fair use are rare.

Milky > Danny Gross 12/15/2014 at 11:14

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Ahem, your truly and a decent amount of people. #Fashion

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > Haimatox 12/15/2014 at 11:18

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What if you deigned a tshirt with something that resembled the grill of a camaro without a badge up by the neck line? I feel like that'd be a good tongue in cheek parody

Haimatox > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero 12/15/2014 at 11:47

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I don't get it...

SteveLehto > Haimatox 12/15/2014 at 11:55

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It all falls under the same umbrella in a way - the other one is Patent (which is the design of something). This area of the law is very confusing and subject to a lot of abuse. There are people out there with lots of money and weak claims who are willing to litigate. Sometimes, it is not who is right so much as who has the determination to put up a fight.

Feel free to fire legal questions my way; I'll help if I can. Lehto@kennon.com

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > Haimatox 12/15/2014 at 12:04

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Like the grill is basically a bow tie for the car so you put a Chevy looking grill by the neckline and you have a Chevy bowtie...kinda. it sounded better in my head

Gizmo - The Only Good Gremlin, but don't feed me after Midnight > Haimatox 12/15/2014 at 13:22

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As most here have told you, in this instance, its better to ask forgiveness than permission. But, if you really wanted to know.... GM has an office designated to review a multitude of forms that they developed for people to apply for use of their logos (Search for: General Motors Trademark Letter Of Authorization) attached is just the top half of page 1 of 3.

I've had to do this a few times for my car club and for my avatar as well as getting approval from Cadillac Racing to copy mimic their 2012 PWC fire suit. Luckily for me, I had the assistance of the top people at Cadillac Marketing and Team Cadillac Racing, so all my stuff got approved (Cadillac racing had me stipulate that they had no involvement in the construction, design, or testing of my fire suit - no liability in case I die ;)

It's really hard to get these approved for commercial use because, like stated earlier GM is extremely aggressive about going after trademark infringement. The folks I've dealt with do have a sense of humor and I think the "parody" approach was how my logo got by (Jake and Elwood; long story, another time). Another reason commercial use authorization is difficult is the long list of authorized vendors, i.e., GM Licensees, who "are officially authorized by GM to fulfill enthusiasts club orders for certain apparel and accessories utilizing the noted GM Brands." These companies not only have permission to sell the logo on stuff, but can sell just the logo, i.e., on a patch. However their relationship with GM is such that there seems to be a code of ethics that they must also conform to - one vendor interrogated me for half an hour before they would sell me logos for my fire suit (like he wanted to make sure I wasn't an embarrassment to the brand). If you're interested, I have a list of licensees and a GM POC for their licensing program.

Good Luck.