Dilemmas...

"Firewrx234" (firewrx234) 12/14/2014 at 21:54 • Filed to: None

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So, the wife and I stopped by my place of work (dealership) and she fell in love with one of our used cars. A Synergy Green Camaro... It's awesome and in perfect condition and she'd be trading in her PT Cruiser and upgrading to something with power and appearance.

The main dilemma here is that we're headed into winter and it's not gonna be a great winter driver. Secondly, is having to go from no car payments to 2 car payments in less than a year's time.

Help me decide what to do because I'd love to get rid of the PT and moving into such a standout piece would be a fun move but I just can't tell if it's the eagerness to get rid of the PT that's making me excited to do it.

Cherry_man1 > Firewrx234 12/14/2014 at 21:56

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I have daily driven Mustang's for 4 winters now. I see no problem with this.

Flavien Vidal > Firewrx234 12/14/2014 at 22:01

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Meh, no problem :)

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/living-with-a-…

Tohru > Firewrx234 12/14/2014 at 22:07

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For two years the only vehicles my parents had were a '91 Camaro RS V8, and a '96 Camaro V6.

If my dad could drive to work on unplowed Wisconsin roads in a '91 with a V8 and no electronic nannies, your missus should do just fine in a modern Camaro. Remember - in winter the most important thing is tires.

GhostZ > Firewrx234 12/14/2014 at 22:09

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I'd criticize, but coming from a P.T. Cruiser, she probably won't be disappointed. Visibility in the Camaro is awful and unless you like looking at it every day it can be a very fleeting thing. That being said, it doesn't mean it's a bad car if she really does like it. There's just some things to consider:

A Camaro or Mustang actually make great winter cars for what they are. Why? Rust doesn't bother them and they're better in snow than any non-AWD sports car.

They're relatively compact and heavy, with wider rubber than the average sedan (this makes a huge improvement). However, they don't come with snow tires usually and tend to be front biased with weight, so you need to do 2 things as soon as you buy it:

1. Load the trunk of the car with salt bags. This will help keep traction at the rear, at the cost of some MPG and performance, and if you get stuck, the salt can be used to soften the ice. Throw in a full spare tire for extra weight too if you want.

2. Throw on winter tires. Shelve the tires you get from the dealer.

If she wants to buy it though, now is the time because the prices tend to go up (or hover around the same) for a while after winter, because demand for these cars increases for the summer.

One thing to consider is the limited slip differential, which will make it much easier to accelerate out of snow and ice (power won't go straight to the slipping wheel) but could also make it spin out easier (if one wheel starts to slip, the other wheel will keep pushing on spinning the car) if it's aggressive or always active. If you get more ice than you do snow, you probably don't want one. If you get heavy (12" +) snow during the winter, you probably do.

Limited Slip Differentials are available on the Manual Camaro V6 and SS, and on both the Manual and Automatic Mustang GT. Neither Auto V6 model has them.

Last, but not least, if we're talking about a 2015 Camaro, skip it. She's better off wit ha low-milage 2010 or 2009 Camaro. You can get a low-milage (30000), very high spec Camaro SS for less than the price of a new Camaro V6. You can get a very low mileage V6 for about about $15k.

Funktheduck > Firewrx234 12/14/2014 at 22:13

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I think GhostZ's argument wins.

Zoom > Firewrx234 12/14/2014 at 22:14

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Do you get a lot of snow?

Vicente Esteve > Firewrx234 12/14/2014 at 22:14

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Try a Camaro out first. Then, any other quirky options. Patience pays off.

desertdog5051 > Firewrx234 12/14/2014 at 22:18

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Take it. Anybody willing to take a PT in.....

GhostZ > Firewrx234 12/14/2014 at 22:22

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Oh, and another thing, especially with the SS models, look into the octane rating of the fuel you buy and where you get it. I'm not certain of this, but unlike a beater sedan, you can't put the lowest octane possible in these in the cold, especially if they are watering down the gasoline.

PS9 > Firewrx234 12/14/2014 at 22:27

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But...

Aaron James > Firewrx234 12/14/2014 at 22:28

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Happy Wife, Happy Life.......

Firewrx234 > Zoom 12/14/2014 at 23:01

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I live in Franklin, In. Just south of Indianapolis. So we tend to get some.

shop-teacher > Firewrx234 12/14/2014 at 23:51

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With snow tires, it'll be no problem.

jdrgoat - Ponticrack? > GhostZ 12/15/2014 at 00:37

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Wider tires are actually worse in snow than skinnier tires. The shape of the footprint is narrower and longer with the skinnier tires, and longer helps in snow. A wider footprint helps for cornering in dry situations, but not on snow or ice.

jdrgoat - Ponticrack? > Firewrx234 12/15/2014 at 00:39

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They do great in snow, as long as you get the right tires. I've been driving my GTO in Minnesota winters since 2008, and I have a friend with a 2011 Camaro V6 that he drives in the winter with my old GTO wheels. (Side note, the GTO wheels look better on his car than they did on mine, in my opinion.)

GhostZ > jdrgoat - Ponticrack? 12/15/2014 at 00:45

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Wouldn't wider winter tires offer deeper and wider ridges for digging into snow, and wouldn't they also be just physically bigger so the chances of an ice/compacted snow patch covering the entire contact patch would be smaller?

Wider normal tires, yes, don't seem to make sense.

orcim > Firewrx234 12/15/2014 at 00:49

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No problem. Just get some studded snows and you're good to go.

jdrgoat - Ponticrack? > GhostZ 12/15/2014 at 01:07

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The ridges in the tread pattern and the siping that they do depends on the tread pattern, and the depth depends on the tread depth that they've been made to.

The easiest way to see how the tire width affects the size of the footprint, is by looking at the weight of the car, the tire pressure, and then the section width. For example, my car with me in it weighs about 4000lb, with 54/46 weight distribution (I'm going to assume 50/50 L/R), and I keep the tires at about 32psi. So each front tire is holding up 1053lb, and each rear tire is holding up 897lb while static.

Front: 3900 lb * 0.54 /2 = 1053 lb

Rear: 3900 lb * 0.46 / 2 = 897 lb

Now the area that each tire takes up on the road is determined by the weight / psi.

Front: 1053 lb / 32 psi = 32.9 in^2

Rear: 897 lb / 32 psi = 28 in^2

Note that this is the surface area that any tires I put on my car will cover. It doesn't matter what brand, or what size the tires are, on my car with the tires at 32psi, this will always be the total area of the contact patches.
Changing the section width changes the shape of that contact patch. Having a wider tire will make a contact patch that is wider, but also shorter. This is good for cornering traction in dry conditions, but offers much less grip in snow or even some wet conditions because it doesn't 'cut' through it like a pizza cutter. Having a narrower section width has the opposite effect, it offers more straight line grip, at the expense of dry cornering grip.

Firewrx234 > orcim 12/15/2014 at 07:23

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wow...I hope those studs are used somewhere and I hope it's a rear wheel drive car wearing them! That would be epic!!!!

All I'm thinking is Mad Max's Winter Wonderland!

Pcannizzaro1986 > Firewrx234 12/15/2014 at 10:50

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Daily drive a 88 Camaro in the north east. It's not that bad and your will have traction control and abs.

Zoom > Firewrx234 12/15/2014 at 20:34

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Awe hell. Go for the Bonemarrow. I live in GR, MI. and we still sell shitloads of Camaros.