Investors of Oppo

"area man" (hurrburgring)
12/10/2014 at 14:32 • Filed to: Monies

Can anyone recommend a tried-and-true online program/resource/class for learning more about investing and possibly day trading? I got my latest 401K statement and I've realized I need to get smart about where my money is as it continues to grow. R129 just because.

DISCUSSION (45)

Tohru > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:35

A great resource for learning daytrading is using someone else's money.

area man > Tohru
12/10/2014 at 14:35

nyuck nyuck not possible.

505Turbeaux > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:35

you can make a bit of money day trading, but I like to invest in things I can touch, feel, or visit whenever I want. Just a personal preference.

Go buy a house, pay it off as quick as you can

Invest in solid business ideas that are local, you help out alot more than big corporations and banks/funds

Don't buy stuff that depreciates

These are the best tips I can give you. Why make fees for all these douchbags you don't know, and probably would never want to? Keep it local and everyone benefits.

Nibby > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:36

Put all your money into an R129 investment plan.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:37

Off you go to Investopedia.

http://www.investopedia.com/university/beg…

But before you start, you really need to search yourself, and know yourself and WHY you want to invest.

In my case, I'm intending to preserve capital and accumulate wealth for retirement.

That means my investment choices will be very different from someone who is going to speculate. And day trading is speculating.

Kate's Dirty Sister > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:37

Jalopnik and Oppositelock is probably the worst place to ask for financial advice

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Tohru
12/10/2014 at 14:38

That is the only way to learn. :)

area man > 505Turbeaux
12/10/2014 at 14:39

Well the thing is I'm trying to avoid early-withdrawal taxes and fees since it's a 401K account, so it all has to stay in the form of electronic investments... trust me, I've been tempted to empty the damn thing and put it towards something tangible, but it just keeps growing and future me will be grateful for the nest egg one day.

The medium-term goal is to increase this account to a size where I can withdraw a good chunk of money while absorbing the tax hit and without breaking the bank, and use that liquidity to fund the kinds of things you're talking about.

area man > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
12/10/2014 at 14:40

I saw this on the Googles but I didn't know if it was actually worthwhile, so now I'll check it out.

pback > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:40

If you would like to learn about investing in real estate, which is a good long term strategy with the potential of earning passive income, check out this website: http://www.free-rental-property-investing-info.com/

area man > Kate's Dirty Sister
12/10/2014 at 14:40

I dunno, despite the "buy it buy it buy it now!" crowd there are a lot of people here who seem to have done pretty well for themselves.

JGrabowMSt > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:41

Thanks for the R129.

Day trading will suck your life away, not what I would personally suggest.

I would avoid specific 401k plans, and get yourself a good Roth IRA, invest it into the S&P or Super S&P, and just drop in 2-5k each year into it. As long as you continue to invest the money into the market and let it do it's thing, it will rise and fall with the market, but the fact of the matter is that it's a safe way to invest and come out with tax free money to retire to, and hopefully lots of it.

Don't let someone else manage your money, just have a long term investment strategy that will allow you to be in control of the investments. It's always the safest way. I'll be fixing my IRA situation early next year, and having my girlfriend open one as well. We'll probably sign each other as beneficiaries just in case, and what it means is that we can not worry about what the future holds. We're stuck like glue to begin with, so it's safe for us to do it this way, because we arent going anywhere. For you, the same may not be the case, but you can figure that end of it out yourself.

That's my personal investment strategy. It's long term because I'm young. Short term investments aren't really for me at this point. I'm in a relatively stable position with enough to cushion a fall if it were to occur. It kind of depends on your situation, but for a retirement fund, that's exactly what I would suggest. You can't touch the money, and it's better that way.

Tekamul > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:41

Bitches and Cristal is all you need!

Kinja'd!!!

Time to cash that sucker out and pay the penalty!

JGrabowMSt > Nibby
12/10/2014 at 14:42

This is what I did. I'll let you know how it worked out when it finally matures.

macanamera > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:43

Day trading can be quite the gamble unless your portfolio is really diverse, in which case you won't have the same return on investment if a stock you picked does blow up. The biggest benefit to day trading is that you become familiar with the market. Make a scottrade account, take a few thousand bucks (maximum) and get a feel for things.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:44

The thing you should remember is that you need to understand exactly what you are investing in.

Stocks are easy. They are fractional ownership stakes in a company.

But then you start looking at mutual funds, and ETFs, and index funds, etc etc etc...

Know what you are buying, and how your money is being used (i.e. know the expenses involved). Investing doesn't work well if you just throw money at something and never look at it again.

505Turbeaux > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:44

I contribute 10% (my company matches to 10% so why the hell not) to my 401K and leave it high risk, always have, and I will do so until I am winding down to old age or if I catch a hint of unrest. It has done fairly well for me over the 10 years or so I have had one. But I carved out money long ago to play with and I keep investing that. Most of my money is tied up in a house I own outright, and have to have another 15 years till the girls go off to college or life, then I will at least quardruple my investment (if I could sell tomorrow it would be likely triple, so I am being conservative on that)

#1 rule regardless. Look out for #1

area man > Tekamul
12/10/2014 at 14:44

It's tempting! But I was raised by spendthrift New Englanders, so I just can't do it.

Kate's Dirty Sister > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:44

Yes but there's a lot of tragic stories as well, people losing jobs for the sake of being a jalop ...

overall, the odds are against you.

Rico > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:47

Not sure what personal resources you have but maybe you can ask around at work, where I work I am super cool with our CIO so when I joined the job's 403b (they match 5%) I sat down with him and had him recommend some funds for a young 23 year old at the time.

The funds he recommended have done exceptionally well and every year we have a meeting at the end of our fiscal and he tells me where he thinks the market is heading and what other funds I should think about. So far it's worked out really really well.

Obviously this way is much more of a set it and forget it rather than actively doing it.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > 505Turbeaux
12/10/2014 at 14:49

One should always contribute enough to get the 401k match if offered. Everything else should be heading over to a Roth IRA or Traditional IRA (if you make enough money to not qualify for Roth contributions).

Mainly for control reasons. My 401k plan has *decent* choices, but none that are really all that great.

area man > JGrabowMSt
12/10/2014 at 14:50

Right now I'm at about $4K a year, and my account is 50% in a pretty conservative growth fund that's split between equity and bonds, and 50% in a slightly more aggressive all-stock fund. In my current plan there's a choice between like 18 different funds/investment options, and the S&P specific fund did seem to have pretty good returns.

pback > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:50

Td ameritrade allows you to practice with paper money. Investing in an index fund like Vanguard S&P 500 index fund or something like VTSAX index fund is the easier way to go. Also there are plenty of youtube videos that shows you how to you technical indicators for making trades.

VonBelmont > area man
12/10/2014 at 14:53

AOL stock. All of it.

area man > Kate's Dirty Sister
12/10/2014 at 14:53

I know who to ignore, it's all good.

area man > macanamera
12/10/2014 at 14:54

That seems like a good plan. I just want to get a better feel for the market, not make my living through it.

area man > Rico
12/10/2014 at 14:58

That seems like a pretty ideal path, but unfortunately I work for a huge multi-state media conglomerate, so personal interactions like that are hard to come by. Maybe I should sit down with someone from Fidelity instead.

Nisman > area man
12/10/2014 at 15:01

Read Jim Cramer's "Stay Mad For Life." Lots of valuable advice in there, some can be taken with a grain of salt. But it's a good place to start. I have a finance degree.

JGrabowMSt > area man
12/10/2014 at 15:04

I would avoid a fund, and go individually. Yes, in a fund, more total money will equal more total interest/growth, but in the event something were to affect the fund, everyone's money will be severely affected. Having something under your control specifically will work out better, at least from my limited perspective on the matter.

I have dealt with a lot of bonds, and they are a bit of a disaster to be perfectly honest. Bonds used to be a good way to set up a tax-free college fund, but all of the tax laws regarding bonds have really changed, so for example all of my college fund bonds were taxed at my parents tax rate, which was pretty astronomical, and caused a hard hit each year for taxes. Once I was able to write off my school expenses it got better, but that will only go towards two years total, not the previous 2 years of large tax amounts I had to pay. My higher (for my age) income was able to help me offset the cost, but it was not a simple situation no matter how you look at it.

My current financial advisor (a good friend and client of mine) has pointed me in the direction of long-term investments specifically set up for retirement, because I'm still working and I have a relatively stable job with just enough disposable income to make things work out so I can put money into it. It works out well, but I don't really look at it much. He'll ask me how it's doing, and doesn't always like that I don't check it much, but he also understands it's long term, and nothing I really should be eyeballing every week to begin with.

area man > Nisman
12/10/2014 at 15:04

I'll check it out, thanks!

jariten1781 > area man
12/10/2014 at 15:06

My brother is a big time analyst working with >1B$ in funds. His advice for personal 401ks is to max contributions then set and forget.

He suggests paying a financial adviser (or something like smart401k.com which some people at work have used successfully) to help pick your initial portfolio percentages and then just have them auto distributed with the same weighting indefinitely. Then, don't even open it up for 20 years. He's looked at all the various successful strategies (ie, risk based distributions...not dumping it all in money markets or something) for individuals and found that they are within margin of error when drawn out over decades. So you can spend a lifetime worrying and tweaking and you're more then likely going to end up in the same place at the finish line (it's like trying to pick the fastest lane in a traffic jam :P).

He also suggests that any investments into pet projects or companies be with funds above and beyond retirement savings and that they be expendable funds.

area man > JGrabowMSt
12/10/2014 at 15:06

what do you mean when you say avoid a fund and go individually? Maybe I haven't fully explored the website but it seems like my only options in my current plan are funds.

area man > jariten1781
12/10/2014 at 15:08

that sounds like real solid advice, thanks. It's kind of what I'm doing already (although I've tweaked the fund choices a couple times), but I don't feel like I'm learning enough.

JGrabowMSt > area man
12/10/2014 at 15:13

I would opt out of the company 401k if you can, and open a separate bank account with that money, and put it into a Roth IRA account you could open with either a bank or a stock trading company (ScottTrade for example). You can only add up to 5k each year into a Roth IRA, but you can have that money separated and ready to go into that account over time, where you can fully invest it and you would be in control of each investment that gets made, rather than having a fund manager make the decisions for everyone. Like 505 said however, some companies will actually match contributions going into these funds, and in those cases, it can certainly pay off to keep both the 401k setup, but also create your own Roth IRA to put money into slowly.

Stupidru > area man
12/10/2014 at 15:15

The only tried-and-true method to investing is to keep doing it. Don't blindly throw your money at an account without taking a look at it every once in a while. Diversify your investments. Invest in yourself (education: it's a good thing so keep doing it). I'm 26 and my wife and I have 2 401ks, an IRA, and a 529b even though we don't have any kids yet (a 529b is like highway robbery. Tax deductible contributions and tax-free withdrawals as long as it's for education). We flat-out own one car and just made a decision to buy a car that is almost done depreciating (paid $7k for a 2004 Acura TL). My wife and I bought a house just earlier this year before the market comes back, so we're paying off something tangible that will appreciate over time. The fact that you're asking these questions probably means that you're ahead of the curve.

area man > JGrabowMSt
12/10/2014 at 15:21

Yeah I'm matched at 7% which is nice (his 10% is insane!), but I'm gonna look into opening an IRA next year like you say. I didn't know that 401ks are limited like that, which is exactly what I was trying to get out of when I was looking through my options this morning.

JGrabowMSt > area man
12/10/2014 at 15:25

Every company is different, and I'll full well admit that my knowledge of the financial industry is but a fraction of the whole thing. When your 401k is matched, that's a very big deal, it's like free money to a point, and while some industries today can back that up, there are other industries that can, and plenty of businesses that don't bother to.

It'll certainly be a question for a potential new employer. No deal breaker for me, with an investment strategy that's hammered out, but certainly a question, knowing how well off the company is.

Nisman > area man
12/10/2014 at 15:31

Sure thing! Your research is going to tell you that everybody has a different idea of what investing should look like. If everybody was rational, there wouldn't be much money to be made in the market. Even the rational investor is making gains on irrational investor behavior. Read a few books and do what makes sense to you!

area man > Stupidru
12/10/2014 at 15:44

Thanks for the tips! I think I'm probably somewhere in the middle of the curve - I am a year younger than you but also am pissing away $15k a year in rent. I know the importance of saving for the future, I just want to know more about finances in general. Everyone always seems to know more than me! For example, I had never even heard of a 529b until you just mentioned it now.

Stupidru > area man
12/10/2014 at 15:56

My grandpa is/was an accountant and I hang out with him enough to know a few things ;)

To be fair, our mortgage isn't obscenely more expensive than what you're paying in rent. If you can afford a down payment (as low as 3.5% if you get an FHA loan, but I would suggest saving 5% for a conventional) and plan on staying in the area a house isn't the worst decision as you can write off quite a bit on your taxes. Anyway, we don't contribute much to our 529b, only $50/mo, but it's $600/yr you can write off of your taxes, and you'll thank yourself when your kids are going to college. It's enough to at least make yourself think more about investing for the future and that you don't have to contribute hundreds a month to make a difference (but if you can contribute more down the line, by all means do it). I just turned 26 so we're about the same age, so don't be intimidated by finances. It's pretty easy to understand if you keep being diligent about learning. Lastly, a man named Einstein once said "the most powerful force in the world is compound interest". On that bombshell, it's almost time to leave work

area man > Stupidru
12/10/2014 at 16:06

Yeah, and I already live with my girlfriend so together we're throwing down almost $30K a year for rent, which would be far more useful being put toward a mortgage. We are planning on moving (and I'm planning on poppin' the question) in the next couple years and I'm thinking we buy after that. My parents have indicated they're willing to help with a down payment, as their parents did with their first one, and I'm sure the whole process will be quite educational.

Thanks for the help!

trackguy > area man
12/10/2014 at 16:33

Investopedia is a great site. Also you can check out these lending sites if you want to lend money to other people, Prosper.com and Lendingclub.com. Investopedia gives you the definitions to understand what's going on and they give you 100k to play with that you can "play invest" with that tracks the real market. They even have contests on who can turn that 100k to the highest profit. That said you'r younger so consistency is key. I would avoid targeted funds (ones that mature at a certain date like 2066 fund...etc) and I would avoid bonds. It can be tough to stomach but I like an agressive approach to investing. Small and Mid cap. Foreign...indexes (they have low fees). Also get very acquainted with MorningStar. It's a place to look at stock ratings which will help you when choosing stocks. I wouldn't day trade if I was you. Individual stock purchases will net you the most potential profit but you really have to pay attention constantly. Investing is all Risks vs Rewards. I would stick to funds and maybe throw a few bucks at an individual stock to test it out. I've been averaging 15-22% with these funds I would look at these if I were you and this is not a comprehensive list: (Again, you can check these against MorningStar)

#General stock/funds to just take a look at

united technologies (UTX)
L-3 communicationsa (LLL)
Finmeccanica
EADS (EADSF)
Raytheon (RTN)
General Dynamics (GD)
northrop grumman (NOC)
boeing (BA)
lockheed martin (LMT)
BAE systems
Airbus
Vca Antech (WOOF)
FX Energy (FXEN)
Ascent Capital Group (ASCMA)
Ingredion (INGR),
Nike (NKE)
Twitter(TWTR)
LinkedIn(LNKD)
proctor & gamble
coca-cola
american express
wells fargo
The Fidelity Capital & Income (FAGIX)
Pimco Total Return (PTTAX)
Vanguard Dividend Growth (VDIGX)
Touchstone Sands Capital Select Growth (PTSGX)
Vanguard Explorer (VEXPX)

Dividend stocks (the company pays you a piece of the profit it makes)

FirstEnergy (FE)
AT&T (T)
Entergy (ETR)
Reynolds American (RAI)
Southern Company (SO)
Coca-Cola Enterprises(CCE)
Interpublic Group of Companies (IPG)
L-3 Communications (LLL)
Ameriprise Financial (AMP)
Assurant (AIZ)
Northrop Grumman (NOC)
Nvidia (NVDA)
Pfizer (PFE)
Seagate Technology (STX)

Whiting USA Trust II Dividend yield: 19.52 percent
Atlantic Power Dividend yield: 12.96 percent
Ellington Financial Dividend yield: 12.69 percent
KCAP Financial Dividend yield: 12.32 percent
Sotheby's Dividend yield: 8.9 percent
turan Location and Control Dividend yield: 6.9 percent
Vodafone Dividend yield: estimated $17/share

Cannabis play (this could be something big going forward)

medbox(MDBX)
AVT(AVTC)
Advanced Cannabis Solutions (CANN)
CannaVest(
Cannabis Sciences(CBIS)
Fusion Pharm(FSPM)
GW Pharma(GWPRF)
Hemp Inc.(HEMP)
mCig(MCIG)
Nuvilex(NVLX)
GrowLife(PHOT)
Vape Holdings(PLPED/VAPE)
Terra Tech(TRTC)

Funds I have in 401k's..etc that are doing well

EILVX EV LG CAP VALUE I
*KDSIX DWS/D SM CAP VAL IS
*RERGX AF EUROPAC GROWTH R6
*TRBCX TRP BLUE CHIP GRTH
VFORX VANG TARGET RET 2040
VINIX VANGUARD INST INDEX
FSEAX Fidelity Emerging Asia
FNMIX Fidelity New Markets Income
*VFINX Vanguard 500 Index Inv
*RWIEX American Funds Capital World G/I R4
*VMGIX Vanguard Mid-Cap Growth Index Inv
*DODFX Dodge & Cox International Stock
GCMAX Goldman Sachs Mid Cap Value A
RERGX American Funds EuroPacific Gr R6
ACEIX Invesco Equity and Income A
AJVCX Allianz NFJ International Sm-Cp Val C
VGHCX Vanguard Health Care Inv
DGAGX Dreyfus Appreciation

I would also look at the health card sector as well.

Tripper > Kate's Dirty Sister
12/10/2014 at 16:48

It's true lol. If you're into cars, you're into wasting money.

area man > trackguy
12/10/2014 at 17:06

wow, this is a lot, thanks! I'm at work now but when I get home tonight I'm gonna go through this again.

Kate's Dirty Sister > Tripper
12/10/2014 at 17:40

Not what I'm saying

You can be into cars while taking responsible decisions.