"This is how you do a premium interior, Cadillac

"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone) 12/09/2014 at 20:10 • Filed to: None

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...step up or step out." - said Dr. Z, before dropping the mic and walking away.

Jedidiah > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:13

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"Let's put buttons and screens and knobs everywhere! Surely people will love it if its got gadgets and doohickeys everywhere, right?"

-Interior Designed at Mercedes Benz

Seriously, the only nice about that is the materials and those are just touch surfaces — it's still just held together with some spray glue and push tabs underneath. Everything else is a clusterfuck.

JR1 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:13

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I honestly didn't think it was that bad when I was at the auto show. Granted my peasant self has never driven anything fancier than an 06 Corvette

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:14

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Fuck, I knew I left my iPad somewhere.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:16

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"Let's glue a tablet to ze dash." -MB engineers. I'd much rather be here.

Axial > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:16

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To the original picture: no.

To this:

Yes.

Actually, I would argue that even the interior on the highest trim Chrysler 200C is leaps better than what Cadillac has going on. Cadillac's current interiors are just...blegh.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Jedidiah 12/09/2014 at 20:17

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the only nice about that is the materials and those are just touch surfaces

Yes, that's the point.

ly2v8-Brian > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:18

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That is bland and boring

As always look to the past

Interiors need color. It really brings them to life.

Otherwise it's just Dull plastic A vs dull plastic B

ly2v8-Brian > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 12/09/2014 at 20:20

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This is better because color.

Sweet Trav > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:21

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I hate the tablet nailgunned to the top of the dash look with buttons underneath. I'm partial to the tesla giant touch surface in the center of the dash design.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > JR1 12/09/2014 at 20:23

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It is, the gauges look like they came from the 80's, CUE is still terrible and the shiny black, center console attracts too many fingerprints. Oh yeah, did I mentioned that even a Cruze has nicer gauges.

E. Julius > Axial 12/09/2014 at 20:24

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To be fair, Cadillac doesn't really compete with this car.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > ly2v8-Brian 12/09/2014 at 20:25

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Sea foam? Ew.

JR1 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:25

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I must be nuts but I like the gauges and the waterfall effect on the dash is beautiful IMO. CUE does suck and I could do without the damn fingerprints.

ly2v8-Brian > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:26

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That's not the point. Just anything other than the boring Black, Grey, Tan

Frank Grimes > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:26

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that looks really bad. this caddie interior looks like it was actually designed rather than a bunch of parts put together.

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:27

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Nahhhhh.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > JR1 12/09/2014 at 20:32

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What's to like? I've seen Korean cars with more modern looking gauges. The ones in the CTS, do look a little better.

Your boy, BJR > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:34

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yeah because this is pretty much a clone of the Yugo GV interior.....

JR1 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:35

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I think this is in the new vsport. I mean sure it's no Audi cluster but it's functional and I'm a sucker for the blue.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > E. Julius 12/09/2014 at 20:36

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It should. Because "standard of the world" and all that crap talk.

PS9 > Axial 12/09/2014 at 20:37

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This beats both MB and caddy, but given the car it's in (a six figure semi-experimental supercar) nothing less than that would cut it.

E. Julius > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:38

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I completely agree, and hopefully they've got some exciting stuff in the pipeline.

(Nobody mention the ELR)

E. Julius > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:39

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Does anybody find what appears to be brown/ivory leather a terrible pairing with carbon fiber?

HammerheadFistpunch > Frank Grimes 12/09/2014 at 20:39

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i think the xts has one of the best interiors around

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:40

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"Let's shit on a GM product because it's GM and they're shit" Everyone but like 3 people here.

#ImOut

Axial > E. Julius 12/09/2014 at 20:41

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No, it doesn't, but if Cadillac wants to get noticed it needs to be shooting for cars at a higher level than what each direct counterpart sits at. Even if they don't make it to that higher level, they will be better than the competition and get people interested.

[slight longpost ahead]

What GM really, really sucks at doing is building interest in their products. They suck because they can't seem to grasp the concept of the long game . Sure, they are taking their time with Cadillac, trying to nudge it slowly upward. Technically, that is a long game. However, they've made the mistake of prematurely charging equal prices for cars that still don't quite stack up. Yes, they've got the performance chops, but the comfort part isn't there. The styling isn't there. The customization isn't there. The brand-exclusive feature set isn't there. The complete package...is not there.

The real solution is to be a loss-leader for a little while. Build exceptionally exceptional product for a bit and sell it at prices slightly lower than the established segment leaders, but not low enough for the Buick buyer, to get interest from people who generally go to BMW, Audi, or Mercedes-Benz. That's exactly what Lexus did, and it worked phenomenally .

There's also a problem with Cadillac dealers thinking they can pull the same kind of stunts or treat customers at the same level as a Chevrolet dealership. That needs fixing. Customers need to feel relaxed and cared about when shopping. That means lose the suits and ties, lose the pushy business practices, and lose the "product too good for the customer until proven otherwise" attitude. Staff should be excited for the product (and knowledgeable) and eager to show it off to everybody who walks in that door, regardless of age, sex, or appearance. That's how my local VW dealership is, and it's refreshing.

Axial > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:43

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Yup, exactly. Besides, you don't get ahead by simply matching your opposition. You have to do better.

Axial > PS9 12/09/2014 at 20:44

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I don't think the S-class cuts it, either, but I digress.

I made a response in this thread elaborating why I think Cadillac needs to aim for it anyway , but Lightning pretty much nailed it.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Axial 12/09/2014 at 20:45

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I bet you can't convince BMW to make that with orange bits of trim, instead of the blue ones.

Axial > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:45

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Previous gen CTS had a far superior gauge cluster. It's really disappointing to see the usual GM stinginess creeping back in.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:47

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Cause Cadillac's interiors are sooo horrible.

If you ask me these look nicer than the Benz's interior. Maybe the materials are lacking behind, but if they are it's not by that much.

Axial > ly2v8-Brian 12/09/2014 at 20:47

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Also because digital gauge cluster and not that atrocious analogue one. I don't even like digital clusters, but it's a must with these new Cadillacs.

Axial > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:53

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If I had $200,000 to $300,000 lying around (being conservative with the bribe estimate, might not even take that much), I probably could. Take a plane to Germany, tell them how I want it in explicit detail. After all, it's just thread and plastic!

That said, I'd rather go with neon yellow bits of trim, like the Golf R400. :p

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > ly2v8-Brian 12/09/2014 at 20:54

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Brown is a color...

ly2v8-Brian > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 20:57

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A nice warm brown, is acceptable. Like the 'wood' on that dash. Make the dash top brown like dark chocolate then your on to something.

E. Julius > Axial 12/09/2014 at 21:03

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[equally long post alert]

I agree with pretty much everything you said here. They definitely jumped the gun on the pricing, because even if they nailed or exceeded the benchmarks perfectly they still won't be able to pull in the badge buyers. However I think they were kind of in a tough spot.

It's one thing for 80s Toyota, riding high on a booming Japanese economy, to throw tons of resources into developing a world beating car and undercutting the competition. Especially considering the huge bite they'd recently taken out of the American domestic market and their soaring reputation for quality.

GM on the other hand knew that they needed to up their game, and that obviously takes investment. On top of the difficult circumstances of trying to attack a market leader:

the Alpha platform was mostly developed during the worst recession in decades

GM was not riding high on swelling consumer sentiment for their mass market products

With the European debt crisis and indications of a Chinese slowdown, they faced shaky prospects for global demand, both in direct markets and in indirect macroeconomic effects

They are recovering from a very recent bankruptcy

Obviously there's a host of other problems as well, ranging from a corporate culture in need of reform to differences in the US labor market etc., but ultimately I think it would have been tough for them to make up for the costs selling at old CTS prices. Combine this with some execs getting it in their heads (perhaps not entirely incorrectly) that pricing like the competition will send a signal to buyers, and you get their current strategy.

Like I said, I agree with pretty much everything you said, I just don't think GM was in nearly as fortunate a position as the Japanese companies were in the 80s.

E. Julius > Your boy, BJR 12/09/2014 at 21:10

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Column shift FTW

Life and Times of Magoo: The People's Champ > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 12/09/2014 at 21:10

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Looks grey and rubbery....like a padded cell.

E. Julius > Axial 12/09/2014 at 21:15

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Bonus reply: I—very selfishly—went and test drove the 3.6 and 2.0T ATS when they came out, and my local Cadillac dealer (where none of the salesmen had suits or ties) gave a 19 year old kid the keys to both and a CTS and pretty much just let me drive around by myself. Free donuts too!

Disclaimer: I did give them a chance by sending my parents to the same salesmen when they were car shopping the next year.

Axial > E. Julius 12/09/2014 at 21:47

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You make an excellent point about GM not being as well-off as Toyota was, but when you are up against certain death for doing nothing and only a probability of death for taking drastic action, you need to take drastic action. I'm not necessarily saying they should have poured everything into Cadillac (they shouldn't have), but I do think that they should have done what I just described for Cadillac, for Chevrolet. Chevrolet is the company's bread and butter brand, and it has to succeed in order for everybody else, who are also weak, to succeed. It's easier to get customers in for your mass-market stuff because they have less of a tendency for brand loyalty. Instead, they want the best deal. So you take that bailout money, you build cars that are really, really good for their class, and you take a loss for a few years as people buy them and spread the word about how amazing the quality of product and service are to get more people in the door. And you keep doing that. As more people want your product, you gain market advantage and can start charging more, incrementally raising the prices as you can to start breaking even and, ultimately, turning a profit. Then you resurrect Cadillac, and repeat the procedure.

I don't think the execs are entirely wrong about the pricing, either. Too low, and the rich people you want buying your cars will scoff at people who bought your product for not being rich enough to afford the real deal. So you take it just low enough to make it unaffordable to most, but also a bit of a better deal than the competition. This is where the dealer service really has to be on its game, to show that they aren't a budget brand and to really sell it .

Finally, GM should stop building cars that cannibalize the sales of other brands. The Imapala, for example, is really nice in LTZ trim. I would not give the XTS a second look, that's how nice it is. The Tahoe is in a similar position when compared to the Escalade. It's a huge problem when your luxury brand can get bested by a lower cost, equally trimmed version of the less expensive brand's car based on an identical platform. Cadillac is not in a position to be selling the half-assed budget PoS cars (read: A3, 328i, CLA) that its competition can, because they don't have the panache. Those cars sell on the badge, not on capability, and the Caddy badge means diddly at the moment. Assuming they got Chevrolet into the previously mentioned shape, they would be in a position to build something opulent and jaw-dropping for Cadillac's return, and that would be the ideal car to lead with. Build an Evoke, build it better than the S-class, and with all that head-turning capability you start to build brand respect. Chevrolet gets rebuilt bottom-up because it needs to generate sales for the mothership, but as a secondary brand Cadillac has to be rebuilt from the top-down because it needs to gather the respect of the highest end luxury buyers for the lesser cars of the brand to take off.

Axial > E. Julius 12/09/2014 at 21:53

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That's how it's done! Get people to bring new customers to you by being nice. I wouldn't be surprised if, after a market analysis, one finds that you lose more money on a lost potential sale than you do on potential insurance claims.

It's kind of sad that I can get the used Corvette specialty dealer near me to throw me the keys to anything from a 1967 Stingray to a 2014 Stingray, but the local Cadillac would laugh me out of the door for a measley ATS 2.0.

E. Julius > Axial 12/10/2014 at 05:37

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I'd be interested to know what people are really cross shopping with Cadillacs. I think a lot of the people who would be cross shopping a top level Impala would be a different buyer than those who are cross shopping with a 5 series or something like that. For the strategy you've described though, I think the Impala cross shopper would be more important. I've driven the ATS and the 3 series, and as much as I LOVE the ATS, and as badly as I want to see it and Cadillac succeed, I think the 3 is a better car (it's pretty close though).

In fact, when I went in to the dealership, I asked the salesman why I should buy the ATS over the 3, and he said "Listen, the 3 series is the 3 series. We can't match them on everything, just give the car a try and see if you like it."

So it would seem that it would be difficult to steal away the high end buyer, but easier to pull up the lower end buyers at first, in which case your point about the Impala infringing on Cadillac territory is important. I also like your point about attacking the competition from the top of the range instead of the bottom/middle. Lexus started with LS and worked their way down after its success. Honestly though, working for a supplier this summer I question GMs ability to do so, at least over the last few years.

They have a bunch of new quality policies, no doubt part of an effort to raise the grade of their product, but there was so much wasted effort applied where it didn't need to be. They were so concerned about our company having signs and boards everywhere, but really didn't know when to (or couldn't) step back and say "Hey, we know this is what the policy says, but it's pretty evident that this is kind of going overboard, and we think focusing on this instead would do a better job increasing the quality of your product".

I don't know if that's just my limited experience or a broader problem in the company, but I don't think they would've been able to put together a true S-Class fighter in the last few years, and I'm skeptical (but hopeful) of their ability to do it now.

Lexus also had the advantage of not existing prior to the LS, so they had time to perfect it without having to worry about selling anything else. Cadillac still has to sell cars while they're working on their S-Class fighter, and it makes sense that they would be raising the grade on those other products as well. I think they're putting themselves in a good position, getting experience working at a higher standard with the ATS/CTS/XTS/Escalade and moving to New York. Hopefully they'll be able to blow everyone away with their flagship.

Also, your dealers are dicks.

titsinmymitts > JR1 12/10/2014 at 13:52

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This looks good.