The Five Steadfast Rules Of Dealer Auctions

"Steven Lang" (StevenLang)
12/08/2014 at 15:24 • Filed to: None

Wall Street may be the biggest auction on the planet. But when it comes to assets instead of equities, wholesale auto auctions are America's largest trillion dollar free market.

You can buy anything. Really. Over 10 million vehicles are liquidated every year. Everything from an off-lease Bentley, to a 25 year old rolling turd that's worth more dead than alive can be had with just a wink and a big enough checkbook.

Every car at an auto auction is there for a reason, and as a long-time car buyer, it's always been up to me to me to find out that reason.

Some people just get bored of their daily driver. Others had an owner who was the vehicular version of Jack Kevorkian. There is a lot of neglect and abuse that takes place and, here's a little surprise for you.

It's usually not the prior owner's fault.

Manufacturers these days are forced to compete within a very narrow price level to move their metal. The by-product of this is that there are a lot of under-engineered vehicles that wind up kicking a proverbial money bucket or two after the warranty runs out. It's a grey area of the marketplace where you, the owner, is usually stuck with a defect that the manufacturer doesn't want to recall, ever.

Oh, and before you folks get on that anti-GM bandwagon, let me fill you in on a little secret that I've learned over the course of 15 years.

They all do it. Every... single... manufacturer,..

One manufacturer's ignition switch is another's piece-of-excrement transmission, which is another manufacturer's lifetime fluid that either eats up the intake manifold gasket, or blows your torque converter into kingdom come.

There are literally thousands of shortcuts and dumbopf bean counter decisions that will give you anything from a check engine light, to a repair that is bigger than your savings account. So today I'm going to give you a very short list. Here's five steadfast rules that I find as common at the auctions as angry talk show personalities on a Monday afternoon.

1) Most Honda Accords Have Bad Transmissions.

Specifically, those Accords that were !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Honda has a long-standing tradition of building transmissions for six-cylinder models that simply don't last. The Honda Odyssey along with the Acura CL & TL were all victims of it during that time period, but for the last several years, I have been seeing more than my share of four-cylinder models with automatics turn into stationary paperweights.

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2) At Chrysler, The Mark Of The Devil Is 2.7. Not 666.

The Chrysler 2.7 Liter engine is quite possibly the worst American engine of the last 20 years when it comes to longevity. This God forsaken engine was put into millions of midsize and compact Chryslers, and they all eventually develop engine sludge with the size and consistency of winter snow in Buffalo.

Here's a personal example. I once bought a Chrysler Concorde that was owned by the Salvation Army since day one. No joke. Oil changes every 3k. An interior clean enough to sleep in. It was only 5 years old... and it didn't matter in the end. Six months after I sold it, the head gasket blew like Mt. Saint Helens. Since then thousands of Chryslers have found their way to "wholesale heaven". A place where crappy old cars are left at the auction because no retail customer in their right mind would ever want them.

3) Old Volvos and SAABs Just Plain Suck Your Money

I'm not talking about the old rear-wheel-drive Volvos of the 80's thru mid 90's that came with the uber-reliable red brick engine. I'm not even talking about the old SA... wait... I am definitely talking about old SAABs, and the not so new ones too.

Volvo customers were !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . No! Nein! Nyet! It was the lifetime of Volvo's warranty, and within 10 years, most of those transmissions wound up on the crazy train of perpetual dealer service. Beyond the torture of seeing newer Volvos molderizing in the showrooms, Volvo's clientele were forced to try several hundred dollar band-aids on a gangrene defect that would eventually cost thousands of dollars on top of all the sensors... and modules... and software updates... and about fifteen other things.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

As for SAABS... older ones are the automotive version of leprosy. There is nothing harder to sell or fix than an old SAAB. This is why a based-out 2003 Corolla will usually cost more to buy at the auctions than a loaded 2007 SAAB. Over time, quality always has a way of outing itself.

4) CVTs Sold During The Bush/Cheney Era Aren't So Hot Either

I always check the histories of Nissans that were given CVT transmissions during the mid-2000s. If they weren't replaced, I won't buy them. Price be damned. The same is true for the Ford Freestyle, Saturn VUE, and Dodge Caliber. The long and short of it is that if that well used CVT doesn't come loaded with planetary gears, such as that in the Toyota Prius, I won't look at it if it has higher miles.

5) Jaguars and Land Rovers Can Make It Past 180,000 Miles

You just have to own at least one of those two dealerships. A recent long-term reliability study that I co-developed !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . What we discovered is that the chances of having one of these models be a reliable long-term companion past 180,000 miles ranges between over 40:1 for either brand, to over 1700:1 if you must make the neighbors believe you appreciate all things Brtiain.

DISCUSSION (100)

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 15:35

Pretty much with the classy JLR models, if you have one that's pushed past 150k or so, you don't stand such bad odds of having everything bad replaced with better by that point. Which is, a large percentage of everything, but once crossed over into the far end of age, you might be paradoxically better off than at 120k. Long term companionship is possible, if for the same reason and similar treatment to involvement with someone suffering from a treatable mental health issue - early detection and proper maintenance.

Of course, love for JLR type things is itself a non-treatable mental health issue, but I digress.

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 15:40

This was excellent, I'm bookmarking this and your research data site.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 15:46

Kinja'd!!!

This is, of course, not to be confused with the 3.0 Mit engine that Chrysler used for a while in the minivans and others, that loses valve guides, burns oil, and generally suffers a host of *other* problems. The 3.3 offered opposite it and loosely related to the 2.7 was actually better.

Aero > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:00

I take some issue with what you said about Saabs. While the '99-'03 9-5 and 9-3 (minus the '03 9-3 Sedan) had sludge issues the rest of the car is pretty solid. Also, the 9-5 is one of the easiest cars I've ever worked on as far as ease of access. In '04 Saab updated the PCV system on the 2.3L and eliminated the sludge issue, along with the problems that were related to it (oil pump, timing chain, etc). I think the fact that Saabs can be bought so cheap makes them a great value, just do the research and don't pick up a dog.

Fragile_this_side_up > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:06

Kinja'd!!!

YAAY SAAB! That is all..

Ente Süßsauer > Aero
12/08/2014 at 16:08

Plus, with the older Saab 2.0 (not that GM EcoTec or whatever they replaced it with) can be fixed with a new direct ignition cassette. That's the only thing that went wrong with them. The turbos wear around ~150,000 miles, but that's the life of a mid-90's turbo.

Fragile_this_side_up > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:12

And I just bought an 07 Saab 9-3 Aero last week. Perfect timing... :D

bigthree313 > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:14

Cliff notes: Buying old junkers for <$7000 to sell to broke people on craigslist is a waste of time.

Thanks for the sharp insights.

Slay0r > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:16

Thought jeeps and explorer's rear ends would be on this list. NAAA has accepted that rear end noise from those two are "inherent issues" so much so that they can not be arbitrated for it.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:17

Yup I've got over 200,000 on my X-Type, still reliable as hell, I've had to replace everything rubber or plastic under the hood, but that's to be expected in this day and age.

ly2v8-Brian > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:23

Such is the way of life when maintaining machinery. Every brand has cost cutting measures. How long you go without major issues really just comes down to luck.

Still the tired old bleating of brand X sucks because 20 years ago their car broke, Therefore they are all bad. And on and on. No, first that is a logical falacy, and also you were unlucky.

It's ludicrous, people think these things should just run on minimal maintenance. That's a load of bull. If you want a car to last forever, and not on luck, you are going to want to rebuild major components.

Long story short, buy what you want, and don't pay attention to buzzwords like 'reliability'.

Steven Lang > My X-type is too a real Jaguar
12/08/2014 at 16:24

I never knew Jaguar built rubber engines! But seriously, congrats on the Jaguar Mondeo ;)

gatorbait28 > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:24

I was recently looking at an '05 Freestyle and was happy with it overall. That was until I read the reviews on it and every single one mentioned transmission trouble. Boy am I glad I dodged that bullet. It's a shame though, because other than the transmission issues, it would be a good car.

Steven Lang > Fragile_this_side_up
12/08/2014 at 16:27

It's not the end of the world. Just the beginning of the end. Actually, SAAB did get better from 04' onward, but in my business I have to make sure the cars are going to be free of expensive issue for at least two years. SAAB, Suzuki, Isuzu, most Volvos, and Range Rovers usually can't make the note without an expensive repair or two along the way.

Captain Hostile > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:28

I've been putting together a list for my own use from the local dealer auction based on prices, this is far more impressive.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:28

They had to make it British, so they added about 25 miles of vacuum hose under the hood and hid it from view to make maintenance have that true British Leyland feel.

Steven Lang > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/08/2014 at 16:29

In certain years you could buy a transmission for either vehicle that's made out of glass ;)

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:29

My automotive resolution from owning nearly 50 various cars: only buy Subarus. Yeah, it will cost you the $3k head gasket repair around 100k miles, but that'll be it.

Fragile_this_side_up > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:30

I'm not going to give up the car, no worries. Check engine light did come on though, but luckily i'm a good self mechanic and found the repair isn't so expensive. Car is fantastic, though.

GoPadge > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/08/2014 at 16:31

Man, I hate that 3.0L... Well and the whole rest of the van.

325xi Touring not brown/diesel > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:33

I just got a pristine 1 owner Jaguar X-Type for $3500 with 100,000 miles on the clock. If it lasts me to 180,000 miles then it was money well spend.

Somecarsalesman > Fragile_this_side_up
12/08/2014 at 16:34

Good luck finding parts!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:34

Certain? No, many to most. However, if you start from a fresh rebuild, at least with the Caravan, and change fluid like a maniac, you can string them out well over 150,000 miles. Caravan/T&C transmissions are actually really controllable that way.

Now, if you're talking a Sebring convertible trashing its motor mounts and failing seals in the trans, I will have to quote Dorothy Parker - "If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit by me".

JR1 > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:34

That states you posted is astounding! So on average you said 45-60 is normal reliability levels I believe. How often do these "normal" cars require maintenance?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > GoPadge
12/08/2014 at 16:37

Hey, now. The "rest of" worked out pretty well for my grandmother - a '94 with a 3.3 and a very fanatically maintained trans. Which isn't to say it wasn't loosely terrible, but its ability to take a polish defied status as a total turd.

ERN > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:40

Uh-oh.....my 2000 Saab with very few significant issues in 160,ooo miles is going to KILL me....!!

SOCdriver > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:40

Kinja'd!!!

Oh God that is horrifying, kill it, kill it now, kill it with fire!

CobraJoe > ly2v8-Brian
12/08/2014 at 16:41

I'd add in that if you want a reliable car, do the research on what actually fails on the specific model you want, and then inspect the car you plan to purchase for that specific issue.

But for the most part, I agree. Except for some horrible examples, most cars built in the past 10 years are reliable.

georgiahomeboy > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/08/2014 at 16:42

The 3.0 in our Plymouth Voyager burned a valve just past 100k.

Someone Else's Projects > Somecarsalesman
12/08/2014 at 16:42

What with places like Eeuroparts, Rockauto, and any breaker's yard populated by totaled examples/paranoid owners, it should be surprisingly doable.

Zevras > 325xi Touring not brown/diesel
12/08/2014 at 16:44

Hell, for that kind of money if you get 3 years out it you're more than fine.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > georgiahomeboy
12/08/2014 at 16:47

Yep. In the same span that my grandmother had a '94 GC 3.3 with no engine issues, a friend of my dad had a '93(?) Voyager with a Mit 3.0 that burned a valve, was fixed, and then ran until IIRC it burned *another*. I think by that point it might have been consuming oil other places too, so it got ditched.

djt2005 > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:48

We have the Bush era CVT in our Freestyle...so far so good at 90K. Never sees more than 3000 RPM and 50% throttle. We are waiting for the hybrid lightweight low roof version of the Transit Connect 7 seater. Or for the Prius V to grow two more seats!!!

Quade > Fragile_this_side_up
12/08/2014 at 16:48

The only Saab I'd own is the 9-2x...because it was made by Subaru. You can get a WRX for Saab pricing and the Saab version is actually nicer than the one Subaru originally sold. Better interior and better suspension (some bits from the STI).

theandysho - drives a SHO > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:49

Kinja'd!!!

Man that is the weirdest shaped brownie pan I've seen in a while.

DavidHH > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/08/2014 at 16:51

I had a neighbor ask me what to do with a Mitsubishi V6 powered Chrysler mini van that ate it's second engine, and unfortunately I had to tell him to recycle it, as they were all bad. But then the last quality product they made was the Zero.

Dr. Strangegun > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/08/2014 at 16:51

*very* loosely related. The 3.3/3.8 were OHV engines, which morphed into the 3.2/3.5/4.0 SOHC (and grew a timing belt/longevity timer) which were interference after '98. The 2.7 sprung forth from the 3.5's loins besotted with a timing chain (and failing tensioner) and was made in a different plant than the others.

Daddio > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:55

Manual transmission Accord FTW!

DavidHH > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 16:56

Rule #6 of the auctions, salvage yards buy many of the cars. For example: Michigan Imported was buying all the Saab's they could get cheaply with a working gear box, just for the gear box and metal salvage. But then they also bought the Midwest's entire New Yugo stock after Yugo failed, just to salvage them.

Dr. Strangegun > ly2v8-Brian
12/08/2014 at 16:57

I consider my GMC Sonoma reliable. It has never failed to start and never left me anywhere.

It's had a radiator, belt tensioner, heater core, and a goddamn pile of front wheel bearings (not really the truck's fault, had a garage that was "doing it wrong" but open late and on the way home). Other than that, consumables and a set of O2 sensors, not bad for 192K miles.

If my vehicle's radio went out or had glitchy electric doodads, I'd probably still consider it reliable. Same as if it had annoying squeaks or noises. My reliability metric has always been "never stranded anywhere". If I can make it somewhere to take care of it without limping it, that's like only half a point deduction...

Dr. Strangegun > SOCdriver
12/08/2014 at 16:59

It's already been killed with fire...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > DavidHH
12/08/2014 at 16:59

At some point, if one is deeply, deeply attached to that era van, one should really just get a 3.3 because swapping to fresh Mit again would be more expensive and vastly more dumb.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > 325xi Touring not brown/diesel
12/08/2014 at 16:59

Manual or automatic? The autos tend to lose their transmissions around 150k. I'm still on my original clutch.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Dr. Strangegun
12/08/2014 at 17:01

I saw on the Wikipedia article (sue me, I'm bored) that it was Kenosha. The same Kenosha plant that was an AMC one back in the day, I guess?

I guess we shouldn't really be surprised they like to try to make cheese in the oil pan.

Data Chandler > Aero
12/08/2014 at 17:04

Exactly right.

Everytime I read people complain about Saab and reliability, I ask myself: "Am I really that lucky? Or do a lot of people just buy cars without spending 20 minutes on the internet first to do some research?"

Besides, car sites are rife with Saabs with absurd amounts of mileage, so clearly they can't all be that bad.

TLDR at the start: Research is crucial. I love my Saab, never any serious mechanical problems. Will buy one again after my current one dies. If it ever does!

I'm driving a '99 9-5 2.3t I bought in september 2013 when it had just over a 100,000 miles on the odometer. (Previous owner had the black sludge problem fixed before it ever manifested. Research is crucial.)
Been using it as a daily driver ever since, I've added about 20,000 miles myself by now, and not a single mechanical problem so far. Some minor electronics glitches in the beginning, but they were easily fixed after being hooked to the diagnostic computer.

I love that car to death. Smooth, safe, sturdy, and surprisingly fast.

Before that I had a '96 900, got it with already about 120,000 miles on it, used it as a daily driver it for 4 years and 60,000 miles, not one single engine or transmission problem worth mentioning. Granted, some electronics issues once in a while but they were rare and minor. Unfortunately had an accident with it in the summer of 2013, but my experience with Saab was by that time so good I went out of my way to find another one.

Zeniff > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 17:04

So true. I had a transmission blow about 17k after replacing it. And the following one needed additional service about a year after that.

sauceman101 > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 17:05

If only I knew more about cars 6-7 years ago when I bought my second car ('99 Acura 3.0CL) already had one new trans in it before I bought it. I put another in it. And the third one was on its way out at 140k. Otherwise loved the interior and the motor wasn't bad for a a'99 vtec.

325xi Touring not brown/diesel > My X-type is too a real Jaguar
12/08/2014 at 17:09

This is Jalopnik, of course a manual lol.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > 325xi Touring not brown/diesel
12/08/2014 at 17:10

Congrats on finding one

Tohru > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 17:12

Rule 1A: Most FWD Ford automatics made between 1985 and 2005 have bad transmissions.

DavidHH > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/08/2014 at 17:13

Actually I asked a friend whose family owned a salvage yard, and he pointed out that all Chrysler mini vans with the Mitsubishi V6, had either a bad engine or no engine. And no the Chrysler engine could not be installed, as too many things were different. Turned out that about 1/4 then engines were Mitsubishi, but they accounted for more than 3/4 of the failures. One could not even get a decent rebuilt for them at the time, as it's hard to rebuild engines with block ventilation.

Pheatton > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/08/2014 at 17:14

Gah that 2.7 was the biggest piece of crap ever to come out of Chrysler. I cant count how many of these we replaced during the time I worked for a local Dodge dealer. It didnt matter what you did, eventually it would sludge up and here came the bills.... One of our long time techs swore it was the tiny oil passages.

autothusiest > 325xi Touring not brown/diesel
12/08/2014 at 17:14

Them lower a-arms though.. Keep a very close eye on them.

325xi Touring not brown/diesel > My X-type is too a real Jaguar
12/08/2014 at 17:17

Yeah, there were a lot of automatics around me but I seen on most of them their transmissions were replaced, so then I was looking at some A4/A6's and then this nice manual showed up on craigslist so I snatched it up for a winter vehicle. Its only the 2.5 but it rides great, I love it so far.

Kinja'd!!!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > DavidHH
12/08/2014 at 17:17

Oh, I didn't mean a 3.3 *swap*. I meant going to a whole 3.3 *car*. Swapping the best parts to a 3.3 *car* would be probably cheaper, is what I meant. If one had to have that era van for some incomprehensible reason, swapping to a 3.3-equipped one would be less painful than continuing the Mitsubishi Jig. Even if needing to swap over a better interior, etc. etc.

325xi Touring not brown/diesel > autothusiest
12/08/2014 at 17:20

Ok will do thanks!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Pheatton
12/08/2014 at 17:20

Somebody on the Wikipedia page for it has attempted a justifying edit with a Consumer Reports cite, but has done it quite poorly. Whether an independent pentastar fan or someone at Chrysler, who knows - hurr durr. I imagine that will be fixed soon. Ignorance on the part of CR is not valid countering evidence.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Tohru
12/08/2014 at 17:22

Unpossible. Strictly and totally unpossible, particularly for Escorts. Next you'll be telling me that some Tauruses (Taurii?) like to pop cooling system bits and head gaskets.

DrScientist > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/08/2014 at 17:23

i think youre saying is:

for one of these vehicles, if the car has made it to 150k, likely everything that was going to fail, has failed, and has likely been replaced with an upgraded or updated replacement.

The key, is not to let small repairs go unfixed, as they cause other problems which can quickly get out of hand.

for example. a leaking cam cover gasket on my v12 jaguar has been dripping on the starter motor for at least 6 months... causing a draw on the alternator...

this led to a shot alternator, replacement battery, and finally need for a replacement starter motor. that last one was a huge PITA. now i just need to finally fix that leak.

DavidHH > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/08/2014 at 17:24

That was years ago back when people were driving that mini-van. I was shocked that a reputable rebuilder could not provide one, until I learned they were all junk, just like the Honda Civic 1200 Aluminum engine that lasted 20 to 40k miles.

Makoyouidiot > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 17:25

Man, that last bit made me laugh, I sold my Discovery last year with 210k miles on it, it had been fairly reliable for me, but the guy I sold it to has nearly doubled what he paid me in repairs in just 10k miles. :) Sucks to be him.

RW53104 > theandysho - drives a SHO
12/08/2014 at 17:25

But not ever? Do explain.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > DrScientist
12/08/2014 at 17:28

Exactly so. If you love the car enough to stagger through until you've replaced all the shitty parts, you have the car that it should have been from the start... and sometimes that's quite a nice car indeed.

GoPadge > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/08/2014 at 17:29

I have a 2000 Caravan that I bought in 2010 from my wife's aunt for $2000 (so I overpaid by rough $3000). Since purchasing it, we've replaced or had repairs for the following:

Master cylinder (brakes failed on day 2 and we rolled into an off duty police officer)

Brake booster

Battery

Flat Tire

Drunk ran down the driver's side, so new side view mirror

Transmission

Ignition Coil

Master Cylinder (two years later)

Brake booster (also two years later)

Hit/brushed by a deer that was walking down the interstate, so a new driver's side view mirror

Items in italics all occurred in a 7 day span. I really hate this particular van.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > DavidHH
12/08/2014 at 17:32

That 3.0's descendants are actually still being put in new vehicles. Perhaps not quite as crummy as the ones in the vans anymore, but still... Mitsubishi, this is why some people hate you.

I didn't realize that Chrysler refused to learn anything either and had it in some use up until 2005.

theandysho - drives a SHO > RW53104
12/08/2014 at 17:34

Had a buddy grenade cyl# 4 on a GM 3.4L DOHC motor in a Cutlass Supreme Convertible and all the parts wound up in the oil pan + sludge. It was like the brownies had really sharp sprinkles. Do not eat.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > GoPadge
12/08/2014 at 17:35

You, sir, make a compelling case for evil spirits and/or Shinto animism of vehicles making evil possible. I don't think we encountered any of those on the GC or the T&C that replaced it - although a couple cases of roast brakes in general, sure.

Maxxuman > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 17:36

Kinja'd!!!

Mmmm, Vegemite!

Kinja'd!!!

Equana > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 17:41

It is also becoming VERY hard to find mechanics willing to work on them at all. The scrap yards are filling up pretty nice Saabs of all types because they are not worth the cost of repair or parts just are not available.

TheRidge > Somecarsalesman
12/08/2014 at 17:44

The SAAB parts business is still around. It was spun off before the bankruptcy and is doing just fine. Tons of parts. Also a good number of the parts that need oft replacement are available in the aftermarket

Wagonboy > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 17:56

Kinja'd!!!

Damn! I'm so screwed! (But the '04 F150 Triton 5.4 is still kicking' hard with 205,000 miles...)

DavidHH > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/08/2014 at 18:02

In Mitsubishi's home market consumers junk cars at four years of age, so they expect us to as well.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > DavidHH
12/08/2014 at 18:06

...whereas in the home market of the Hyundai Galloper, a Mitsubishi license build, emission standards are so strict that rather than keep them around until they fail, they ship them off to South America about that time, where they prosperously live out the rest of their lives.

BrianMadigan > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 18:19

Isn't the Chrysler 2.7 the same engine found in the Mitsubishi Pajero/Montero? I have seen every kind of problem with Chrysler 2.7 engines from top to bottom. I put it down to the people who are clueless enough to buy a Sebring or Concorde or what have you, but for the most part they are just completely shit. The 2.7 is so bad it makes the old PRV engine look good.

I would not buy a 80k+ mile Honda from the late 90s to early 2000s for anyone. I still don't think Honda quite has it together in the car market. Most of their stuff is really way under-built.

bitpushr > My X-type is too a real Jaguar
12/08/2014 at 18:22

JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG

DavidHH > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/08/2014 at 18:24

Actually it is because the car costs less then 20% the cost of motoring, the lack of service shops, and the particulates test, that most of their cars will fail after only 20 to 40k miles. But still the cars they sell in their home market are mostly crap, regardless of the maker.

Someone Else's Projects > Wagonboy
12/08/2014 at 18:27

Up until October, I was in practically the same boat as you:

Kinja'd!!!

Since then I've sold the 96, but but I've been putting a few more miles on the 9000.

mike > Wagonboy
12/08/2014 at 18:29

Just wait till you have to put plugs in it..... Hope you have a good mechanic, or the extractor tool and a TON of patience....

Garland - Last Top Comment on Splinter > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 18:32

old SAAB

2007 SAAB

What? Since when is a 2007 an "old" Saab? An "old" Saab would be pre-1994.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > DavidHH
12/08/2014 at 18:34

I was citing South Korea rather than Japan. I'm much more familiar and have spent some time there. Hyundai has been schizoid in the past with a lot of models, but I've heard nothing but good things about the Galloper, and the South American market is a significant draw off according to what I've heard. The truck manufacture in SK is I think less inclined to eff around... though certain lines of Hyundai full-size truck engines aren't that well supported, they've been making the Galloper similarly for a long time.

Also, you can get perfectly good service in SK, depending on the vehicle. Lots of of Ssangyong Chairmans of both varieties still on the road, just as an example. There are somewhat disproportionate costs with anything cheap, but still.

Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/08/2014 at 18:56

Mmmm... That one may have come from another master of the witticism slipped right between the ribs, Alice Roosevelt Longworth . (I gather that investigators are not 100% sure who concocted the saying but think that at the very least she popularized it and is associated with the first traceable instance of it; some think it was retrocredited to Dorothy Parker.) It's also sometimes been popularly attributed to another Presidential daughter, Margaret Truman.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Ad_absurdum_per_aspera
12/08/2014 at 19:06

Ah yes. I think I *had* heard it credited to ARL. Thanks for catching me on that.

velyse > Somecarsalesman
12/08/2014 at 19:07

Tons of parts even directly from the old saab execs in the form of Saab Parts North America.

Union of Smog Techs of CA > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 19:07

After ten years of looking at cars all day long, I came to pretty much the same conclusions. Sad to hear about the 4 cyl Accords. The gen of Accords until 1995 were quite simply the best car ever made, that spot is now held by the 2000+ Corolla of course. It should be illegal for stupid car maintenance habits people to own or operate any other vehicle and only then for 100k miles before being issued a new one. This would solve all air quality issues but sadly put most mechanics and other manufacturers out of business.

mrazekan > Fragile_this_side_up
12/08/2014 at 19:28

This is not the Saab he's referring to. I'd be surprised if you coulf find a flat nose SPG, Aero in this case, in a wholesale auction.

Ike B > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 20:02

I'd love to know your experiences with the early P2 Volvos, especially V70s. Do you avoid them like the plague?

ly2v8-Brian > Dr. Strangegun
12/08/2014 at 20:14

Exactly. That's how you should look at it.

Also with electrics, that's a crap shoot. They just fail whenever. Could be tomorrow or 20 years, often without warning.

Gary Yogurt > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 20:29

Craigslist is a horror show for a Saab fan, classics, GM-era or whatever. People just aren't fixing them.

BoostedBrick2 > Fragile_this_side_up
12/08/2014 at 20:29

Having owned several old Saabs myself the best advice I would give to you is to find a good mechanic. My Saabs were no Hondas but weren't that bad. The problem was that when something went wrong nobody would ever fix it right the first time. I might still have a Saab if I could someone competent to fix it.

icemqn > Aero
12/08/2014 at 20:39

Love my '02 9-3 SE. I beat the snot out of it. My first and only car of 6 years. Autox, high speed runs. I ripped the exhaust off once driving off road to a fishing hole lol. No major issues though. Yet. Knock on wood. 140k miles and still going. When she dies she's turning into a rallyx/snow beast. Rally lights and all. If anyone in the CNY area needs parts/a saab specialist I can point you to the best

Fragile_this_side_up > Quade
12/08/2014 at 20:52

true but the ignition switch is in the wrong location. Almost bought one instead of the 9-3. Would have if not for the ignition..

Fragile_this_side_up > mrazekan
12/08/2014 at 20:53

He is referring to the Saab i just bought. An 07 9-3.

Fragile_this_side_up > BoostedBrick2
12/08/2014 at 20:55

There is a good independent repair shop about 5 miles away that specializes in Saabs..

Senex Bibax > Someone Else's Projects
12/08/2014 at 20:55

I hate you

maximum_sarge > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 21:05

WHOOOAAAAA WHOA WHOA... WHAT British vehicle would have 1,700:1 odds of being "a reliable long-term companion past 180,000 miles"

soundman98 > Steven Lang
12/08/2014 at 21:08

Kinja'd!!!

rule #1. don't buy an old saab for summertime use.

mythrenegade > Dr. Strangegun
12/08/2014 at 21:15

I drove a 99 Sonoma for 160k+ miles and it was amazing. I beat the crap out of that truck and it never let me down. The biggest issue was a throttle position sensor that failed and nobody could figure out why the truck was jerking and jolting. That took out the manual trans. But once finally diagnosed and fixed the only other expense beyond normal maintenance was an AC condenser. Loved that truck.

DMCVegas > BrianMadigan
12/08/2014 at 21:33

Hey now. The PRV is a fantastic engine. It's achilles heal is heat when morons don't properly burp the cooling system. 90° V6 has a hellacious amount of torque right off the bat, and it will climb a hill like it wasn't even there.

Quade > Fragile_this_side_up
12/08/2014 at 21:41

I understand buying oddball cars for the joy of fixing them but, not buying oddballs I have to pay someone else to fix. That seems like a recipe for financial pain. I had to put a cat converter on the 9-2x I had. From Subaru it was $700 (and about the easiest converter I've ever had to replace). From Saab the same exact part was $1400. The 9-2x is so easy to work on. It takes about 45 minutes to have the engine out. I took it out to do clutch and timing belt together.

It was a quiet, comfortable car with 170 hp, a 5 speed and AWD.

Desoto61 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/08/2014 at 21:49

Had one of those in a Shadow with the 4 speed, honestly it was one of the best cars I've ever owned. I'm religious about my maintenance, but that vehicle had well over 150k miles on it and still ran like a top. Accident killed it, otherwise the stock muffler lasted almost 18 years, and didn't really burn any oil either. Great little car.