Engine Braking v. Brake Pad Braking: A Raphmoe Thought Process

"Raphmoe" (raphmoe) 12/08/2014 at 08:43 • Filed to: journalismism, raphmoe, bmw, e30, save the manuals

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here is a tale for you young jalops about a time growing up; after the story I will pose a question that I think is worthy of a discussions:

Is Engine Braking better than Brake Pad Braking?

back in the halcyon days of my youth i had to commute two hours a day to a landscaping job where I learned the value of the dollar and a hard day's work. on that drive I was lucky enough to drive my Uncle's 1988 E30 325 5 speed. On those drives I learned the beauty of heel-toe downshifting. So, something I've realized while looking back on those days. There are two parts to learning to heel-toe downshift. First, the mechanical part, the blipping the throttle while braking thing. However, you also have to learn to get a feel for how much to blip the throttle. Which of course makes sense (duh) but it's something I hadn't thought about much before this fall.

On the off ramp I use to use to go to work, to really have a nice clean run of matched downshifts from 5 to 4 and 4 to 3, you need to blip the throttle differently at the 4-3 shift than you do at the first one.

I mean, sure you can just randomly blip the throttle; that's better than nothing, but I learned how to master getting the throttle right where it needs to be so it's nicely matched.

In two years I got 100,000 miles out of a set of brake pads.

Engine brake ALL THE THINGS...

What I did was simply become a heel toe every single time you stop. Commute 2 hours in traffic everyday. Become a heel toe ninja; real simple stuff.

The tricky part is making it all one smooth move. Thankfully my Uncle was a true Jalop and installed a super light flywheel on E30 (that's what we called it) so I could work both feet and my right hand all at once and make the downshift in less than a second.

Unfortunately, even though my brake pads had little to no wear, the transmission exploded one day going to work and my Uncle and I spent $3,000 on a rebuilt transmission, even lighter flywheel, and new clutch.

So - what is better? Engine braking all the time and eagerly heel toe down shifting like I did? Or, using your brakes to stop the car?

I prefer using the brakes as intended, since the cost of repairs on cars are very expensive. And since clutch and brake pads are both wear items I would prefer to spend money on the easier to repair, replace, and afford wear item that is the effervesecnt brake pad.

What do you guys and girls think?

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 08:46

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I only really engine brake when I need more turn-in on track or at autocross. Brake pads are cheaper and easier to replace than a clutch.

Mattbob > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 08:46

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My dad always told me to try to use the brakes because brakes are cheaper than a clutch. I have followed his advice, and try to only engine brake when I don't have to downshift to do it. Brakes are pretty cheap, especially if you do them yourself.

Raphmoe > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/08/2014 at 08:48

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that is what i learned the hard way; but driving like Senna to my landscaping job every day did have it's perks.

505Turbeaux > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 08:50

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I engine brake like a champ in the winter when the roads are shit, but in the summer I only do it once in a while, brakes take an hour tops to do right, clutch is another story

Raphmoe > 505Turbeaux 12/08/2014 at 08:51

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agreed; but being a heel/toe ninja i thought was better than using my brakes until that repair bill. :/ do you run winter tires?

thebigbossyboss > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 08:51

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I use both to a degree. I tend to only engine brake when getting off the freeway in conjunction with the brakes. Sometimes, I'll just go straight into neutral but usually I do a 5-3-N pattern.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 08:55

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Also, i don't really see the connection between engine braking and heel-toe. I mean, yes you can blip the throttle less and let it engine brake, but that's no different from not heel-toeing and just giving it less gas when matching revs the slow way. I always heel-toe (even in traffic), but if it's properly matched, there won't be engine braking and it will be no more stress on the transmission than doing it the slow way.

Raphmoe > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/08/2014 at 08:57

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now you have lost me

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 08:59

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It seems like you're saying that heel-toeing is how engine braking happens. It's not. Under-revving the engine while rev-matching is how engine braking happens regardless of whether or not heel-toe action is going on.

Raphmoe > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/08/2014 at 09:01

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i am saying that engine braking (in this instance via heel-toe) will wear out your car quicker than using the brake pads; the heel-toe is just a means to the end here i think; sometimes i get confused though.

505Turbeaux > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 09:08

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I do, but with a car running ABS I prefer the engine to do it's thing rather than the ABS.

Raphmoe > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/08/2014 at 09:10

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wait; engine braking happens when you are high in the rev's and off throttle. Under-revving while rev matching is just a bad shift.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 09:22

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Yes, a small amount of engine braking occurs when off throttle, but that doesn't really matter. That's just running gear drag. You get more of it when the clutch is engaged, but it's just adding to the drag already being induced by the tires, bearings, diff, etc. It won't really do any damage to the car. When someone says that they're engine braking and using it to help slow down, I've only ever heard of it being done by releasing the clutch with the engine at idle while the car is moving and in a lower gear, making the engine speed up and the car slow down. This way you are using the clutch as the brake pad essentially, and you can modulate it as needed to increase or decrease this force. Since my cars are RWD, I can use this to twist the front in some more by shifting the "brake" balance rearwards, but being off throttle while the car is at speed? That's just kind of normal operating procedure for when I don't need to be on the gas. In some cars, you actually save gas now by staying in gear since it will use the car's inertia to keep the engine spinning without having to add any gas, whereas at idle the engine will have to spin itself.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 09:43

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You drove 100k miles in two years?

I engine brake when I'm feeling randy and want to hear the engine and play with the pedals, but generally, I'm like you and let the brakes do the work of stopping the car. I'm pretty much always in a lower gear in higher revs around town than "normal" people, so as soon as I let off the throttle, the engine starts doing some of the work anyway.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > 505Turbeaux 12/08/2014 at 09:47

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Depends on the ABS system. Some of them are getting really good now. I actually like the ABS in my BRZ. Wish I could say the same for traction/stability control...

crowmolly > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 09:52

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I am with you, I'll use my brakes most of the time since they are cheaper and can be changed in an afternoon.

A related follow up question for you:

When you pull up to a stoplight, do you put the clutch in and use the brakes to come to a stop or do you "row down the gears" first? Yes, it's still engine braking but a special case.

spanfucker retire bitch > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 09:52

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The only time I use engine braking is when the roads are snowy, slushy and just generally full of shit. Provides a nice, gradual, and smooth slow down. Even more so then gently feathering the brakes.

PushToStart > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/08/2014 at 10:03

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That first sentence is exactly what I thought when I finished the article. I don't even know how that's physically possible.

duurtlang > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 10:05

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I engine brake when I can and brake pad brake when I must. I don't downshift when engine braking though, when I engine brake for a stop light I leave it in the gear it was in (4th or 5th) and press the clutch slightly before the rpm become so low the engine can't run smoothly anymore (800 rpm?). This conserves fuel, brake pads and as far as I know isn't hard on the clutch and transmission either.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > PushToStart 12/08/2014 at 10:05

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137 miles per day, on average. It's possible, but not recommended, unless you drive for a living.

PushToStart > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/08/2014 at 10:07

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Oh, I didn't do the math, but since you did I can see that it actually is somewhat reasonable... That's still a shitload of driving though, and I have no idea why he would be driving 137 miles a day to a landscaping job...

Kate's Dirty Sister > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 10:29

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Hello Raphmoe.

I engine brake all the time, but I don't keep my cars long enough for it to become an issue. The poor second-hand owner will have to deal with it.

Raphmoe > Kate's Dirty Sister 12/08/2014 at 10:54

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yeah fuck that guy

Raphmoe > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/08/2014 at 10:55

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driving is living the more you drive the more you live

Kate's Dirty Sister > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 10:57

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Yeah, he's going to come here bragging about his superior financial decisions, then the clutch will asplode and shit will start hitting the fan.

Raphmoe > Kate's Dirty Sister 12/08/2014 at 11:00

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money and cars are easily parted; it is better to spend money on your car then it is on your life, since cars are life, money in to car equals money in to life; cars will make you happy so the more money you spend on them the happier you will be. we now know how science works.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 11:02

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Some driving is living. Some driving feels a lot like dying a slow death.

I'll gladly drive 1000 miles in a weekend pursuing and enjoying twisty backroads, but I've also intentionally picked a place to live and work where my commute is no more than 30 minutes each way, and very little of that is spent at a crawl in traffic.

Kate's Dirty Sister > Raphmoe 12/08/2014 at 11:03

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Well said.