C7 Z06 vs Gen V Viper....

"Illegal Machine" (illmac)
12/07/2014 at 23:08 • Filed to: None

1) Street racing is BAD.

2) For a moment, ignore #1

3) Watch this:

4) Yes, the automoatic C7 would probably pull...slightly.

5) Dodge....PUT THE DAMN 8-SPEED ZF IN IT ALREADY!!! IT'S TIME!

DISCUSSION (57)

Milky > Illegal Machine
12/07/2014 at 23:20

As a Chrysler fan and long time Viper lover, this makes me very happy.

nafsucof > Illegal Machine
12/07/2014 at 23:20

fuck yeah viper.

itschrome > Illegal Machine
12/07/2014 at 23:42

I feel like the driver of the z06 has more to do with it losing than the car.. seemed like he wasn't very good with the shifting..

Illegal Machine > itschrome
12/07/2014 at 23:46

If it weren't 7 or so runs where he got pulled, I'd agree.

itschrome > Illegal Machine
12/07/2014 at 23:49

its just every time he shifts its like the whole thing bucks and looks like he hits a wall or something... over 7 runs its always the same.. whats the deal with that?

Jayhawk Jake > Illegal Machine
12/07/2014 at 23:51

He seemed to be really bad

Jayhawk Jake > Illegal Machine
12/07/2014 at 23:52

Eh, I care more about lap times than drags. This isn't surprising, especially since the Z06 is build to handle (downforce = drag)

Illegal Machine > itschrome
12/07/2014 at 23:56

He's not an amazing driver. A better driver would definitely keep it closer. Not sure it would flip the race the other direction.

ViperGuy21 > Illegal Machine
12/07/2014 at 23:57

This makes me very happy!!!!!!!

And by the way, a Viper can only be a Viper with 6-speed Manuél, so #5 is never gonna happen, for all the right reasons.

Illegal Machine > Jayhawk Jake
12/08/2014 at 00:00

Uhhh....that's a Viper T/A. It generates a LOT of downforce itself.

A 650hp, all new and improved, supercharged Corvette losing to a Viper basically unchanged since 2013 "isn't surprising"? Ok.

Illegal Machine > ViperGuy21
12/08/2014 at 00:02

Yeah. I know. But then the Viper will continue to be an disaster of a low selling car.

Traction control. A nice interior.....change isn't bad. That ZF 8 speed is amazing. The Viper needs it.

Dslay04 > itschrome
12/08/2014 at 00:06

Terrible shifting. Some of them looked as if the transmission was exploding.

Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 00:09

The owner of the C7Z is just a normal car enthusiast like the rest of us — he just happens to make more money. :P

Street racing happens a whole lot down here in the Houston metro area and only the idiots get busted. We're like the street racing capital.

ViperGuy21 > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 00:12

No, the Viper is actually selling well enough to have production going, and development of future models well underway. And sales are only improving.

The Viper isn't for those who are faint of heart. It's for the person that wants to DRIVE a car. Not just control it. The Viper is one of the most pure driving experiences ever. For those who want a Viper with a nice interior, and some other luxuries, there is the GTS, which is still an absolute monster.

And all cars have to have traction control since it's required by law. But people who buy a Viper for what it is, a pure DRIVER'S car, don't always need it, because the Viper is there to scare you, and at the same time, put a smile on your face from ear to ear, no matter how many times, or how hard you drive it.

V10+RWD+6-speed manual+pure driving passion+gorgeous body+pure insanity=Viper(A.K.A. The True Driver's Car)

Jayhawk Jake > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 00:12

It's not. The numbers are basically the same. The corvette driver sucked ass at driving stick. It's not like the viper walked the corvette.

What does the car being unchanged since 2013 have to do with it anyways? I doubt the Corvette design team was concerned with beating a Viper in a drag race.

Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 00:20

Also, directly from the C7Z owner: "Yep. Sadly, it's the truth. Z06 had heat soaking issues after a few pulls. But viper cleanly pulled in 4th gear no matter what."

"To be honest, if people are going to make decision on which car to buy based on the freeway pulls and this much difference, their priorities are pretty fucked."

"My viper shifts much better than the Z06. The shifter in the Z06 is another one of my big complains. It's mushy."

There's also no aero package on the car.

Axial > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 00:41

Is the C7 even shifting? It's almost like he's babying the shit out of the car. He's even getting overtaken by the C6 Z06 before he slows down.

"Nope, I hit the top of 3rd and I'm gonna stay here. Fuck it all."

Illegal Machine > Axial
12/08/2014 at 00:58

That c6 Z isn't stock. At all.

Illegal Machine > Jayhawk Jake
12/08/2014 at 01:03

uhh....the car is on its 3rd model year. Against the brand new Z06. If you don't understand why that's a knock on a new car, I don't know wa to tell you.

Yes, the Corvette team wants to beat the Viper in a straight line. They didn't strap a blower to a Corvette to go slower than 3 year old Viper. Please.

I'm sure its faster in auto form. That's obvious.

Illegal Machine > Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
12/08/2014 at 01:05

I know. I'm a Houstonian.

Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 01:07

Ah, so I suppose you are hanging out on the HPD group!

Redd, the RX-7 that could > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 01:07

The Z06 driver clearly was not adept at driving a car with a manual transmission. With a competent driver I bet the results would have been much closer.

Illegal Machine > Jayhawk Jake
12/08/2014 at 01:09

and the Z06 owner said it has no aero package. He also said the manual is mushy, and the Viper pulled in 4th.

Check Bulion05's comments in here.

Illegal Machine > Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
12/08/2014 at 01:09

yessir!

Axial > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 01:11

C6 is actually a ZR1, on closer inspection. That explains it keeping up, but not really it gaining; The C7 Z06 should have just walked away from the C6 ZR1. Even if it isn't stock, there's no way I can know that because it's not listed anywhere in the video, its description, or even the Facebook page and the C7 is clearly under-performing for whatever reason (driver most likely).

I'm really not trying to belittle the Viper's win, I just see bad science happening and it bothers me. If we really want to know which car is faster, we need to give the same driver seat time in both cars to get a feel and then do a set of clocked runs down the strip under similar conditions. We'll get something much closer to that soon enough.

Jayhawk Jake > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 01:13

My point was that the corvette want designed to be a drag car. Let's see these two race around a track and see how they compare.

Even though the Z06 loses in a straight line I'm taking it over the viper every day.

Illegal Machine > Jayhawk Jake
12/08/2014 at 01:24

Yeah, the Z06 will probably be a little faster around a track but...the Viper T/A is a murderer on the track, too...and is also not designed to be a drag car.

Illegal Machine > Axial
12/08/2014 at 01:28

the drive spoke up and said the vette's manual is "mushy" compared to the viper (seems like he owns both). He also said the Viper legit pulled in 4th.

He added that it seemed to heat soak after a few runs. Pretty famous downfall for s/c vehicles.

Illegal Machine > Axial
12/08/2014 at 01:32

oh, and that's a Hennessey zr1.

Jayhawk Jake > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 01:42

So they're basically even, which is what I said before: it's not surprising. I'd expect them to match up very well. Although at $120k I'd sort of expect the Viper to do better than the $80,000 Vette.

The Corvette is doing exactly what Corvettes do: matching or beating a car that costs significantly more. Given $40k worth of upgrades the Corvette would demolish the Viper in a drag race. To expect the stock Z06 to outdo a car that costs 50% more is pretty unfair to the Corvette

Illegal Machine > Jayhawk Jake
12/08/2014 at 09:56

T/A's are $100k (the owner of the white T/A said he paid $101k)....and a base Viper (no aero, less weight) is faster. Which means the $85K Viper would pull it harder.

The Corvette's motto has never been "just get on par with an old Viper".

And it CERTAINLY isn't "be slower than our previous ZR1".

briannutter1 > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 10:19

Good stuff. I'm a C5Z owner and love the Viper. I liked the older ACR's a bit better, but looking forward to the ACR treatment on the gen 5. That wing will slow the Viper down a bit, but will likely give it the edge on the track. The best part for me is these are both American and they set the bar at track days.

1337HPMustang > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 10:33

6) Dodge... strap a supercharger on a viper and make a hellcat viper already! It's what needs to happen

Jayhawk Jake > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 10:56

It's not slower than a C6ZR1 on a road course, and I bet it won't be slower than a Viper T/A on a road course.

You seem determined to make it sound like Chevy failed with this corvette but I wholeheartedly disagree. For starters, this is the Z06. It's not a ZR1. It's significantly faster than the previous Z06. Secondly, I don't give a flying fuck about drag racing. The Corvette could lose to a Ford Focus on a drag race and I couldn't care less.

Let's see what each does around Laguna Seca or Road America or the 'ring, then we can talk. K?

Illegal Machine > Jayhawk Jake
12/08/2014 at 11:52

It should be faster than a ZR1 everywhere. If not, they did fail.

AND, if it truly does have heat soak issues, that's going to be a MASSIVE problem on a road course. Far more damaging on a road course than it is in 10 second bursts on a drag strip.

YOU may not care about drag racing, but Corvettes are HUGE drag cars. It's very important to Corvette owners. There's some weird Jalop fantasy land where all Z06 owners hit up SCCA track days, but in reality tons of these cars are going straight to the 1/4 mile (or your local roll-race high HP, 1320.com street races).

Jayhawk Jake > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 12:36

But the corvette is not engineered to be a drag car. Chevy can't stop people from dragging them, but that doesn't mean they need to focus their efforts on being faster than a viper in a drag race.

Ultimately though performance on the strip is kinda pointless: when you look at the sales numbers the market has decided there's a pretty clear winner here, and it doesn't have a snake on the steering wheel

Illegal Machine > Jayhawk Jake
12/08/2014 at 14:02

..............sales numbers declare the winner............HA!

If you think the Corvette team watched the C7 Z get pulled by a Viper and said, "We're ok with this", you are suffering from some epic denial.

mierdv > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 16:01

This is why anyone choosing a C7 manual over the 8l90 is a fucking idiot or someone that will never take it to the track.

Jayhawk Jake > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 16:15

No, I'm not. The corvette team probably though 'well, that sucks, but look at all the cars we're selling!'. They will probably try to improve it for future model years, or get back to working on the oft-rumored ZR1. But ultimately the C7 has been a massive success. So it got edged by a Viper in one series of street races. I highly doubt the Corvette team gives a flying fuck about a street race

I get it, you like the Viper. It's faster in a straight line. Congratulations.

Illegal Machine > Jayhawk Jake
12/08/2014 at 16:25

The engineers on the Corvette team don't care in the slightest about sales. They could slap Corvette logos on a rebodied C5 and outsell the Viper. They want to build the fastest cars on Earth.

Corvette owners are absolutely livid from all the reaction I've seen. And most of the blame isn't going on the driver or the Viper. They're pointing the finger at GM (which they should).

Jayhawk Jake > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 16:29

Interesting, I wasn't aware you knew so many Corvette owners personally.

*Some* Corvette owners are livid. Sure, I'm not really surprised. As a Corvette fan I couldn't care any less. And I don't know that I want to meet a Corvette fan that is 'livid' the car lost a street race to a Viper.

You're making this out to be a way bigger deal than it should be. Well, you and anyone else who is making this much of a fuss over it

Illegal Machine > Jayhawk Jake
12/08/2014 at 16:54

Actually....I do know quite a few. There are a couple Corvettes in the Houston area. In fact, I've met the owner of the Viper in this video at the race track, and I've probably met the Vette owner through the years.

It is a big deal if it holds true as more of these cars hit the streets. The Z06 was so hyped....it was supposed to demolish everything in it's path.

The Corvette being slower than the Viper in any respect is not a good look for GM; that has unlimited resources to pour into the Corvette program.

I'm not sure how a "Corvette fan" can disagree with that.

Jayhawk Jake > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 17:22

With that statement I migt agree, but it's oo early to judge. I also care far more about track times than some straight line pulls on a Texas freeway.

Illegal Machine > Jayhawk Jake
12/08/2014 at 17:47

You care far more about cool magazine times....because you didn't buy the new C7Z (or have money down on it) and watch it get pulled by an "inferior" vehicle.

The ZR1 guys are REALLY happy, though. Understandably.

Jayhawk Jake > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 19:41

I care more about 'cool magazine times' because I find on track performance to be a far better metric than an impromptu dangerous drag race on public roads.

And I don't know why someone who on bought a C7Z would expect it to crush the viper: their performance numbers are almost exactly the same. It was going to be a close race no matter what.

Which goes full circle: given the facts, what did anyone expect? It was going to be a close race, and there was a decent chance for the Vette to lose. But again, show me track times. Because that's what the Vette is designed for: demolishing a circuit. You can't deny that. Drag race prowess was probably in mind but it certainly wasn't the primary design objective

The wrench > Illegal Machine
12/08/2014 at 20:16

As someone who wishes the viper sold more, this is awesome

thefrankword > Illegal Machine
12/11/2014 at 10:12

since 2013?! OMFG, they had cars way back then!?

EdWunclerJr > Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
12/11/2014 at 10:26

Sam Houston Autobahn ftw!

JLZ06 > Illegal Machine
12/11/2014 at 10:37

I don't know why anyone is surprised by this outcome. On paper you could have predicted this. The viper TA has 640hp and weighs in at 3332lbs. Thats 5.21 lbs/HP. The Z06 weighs in at 3524 lbs and has 650hp. Thats 5.42lbs /HP. Both are manual, so even if skill of the driver is taken out of the equation, power to weight ratio says viper wins. You would have known this the moment they annouced its power and weight. No surprise here. Even the C6 ZR1 would beat the C7 Z06, again because of power to weight ratio (Zr1 power to weight ratio is 5.26 lbs/HP)

JLZ06 > Axial
12/11/2014 at 10:47

you realize there is more to cars than just horsepower right? A C6Zr1 would beat the C7 Z06. Power to weight ratio. Zr1 is 5.26lbs/hp vs C7 Z06 5.42Lbs/HP, despite the C7 Z06 having more power, its added weight makes it slower than the ZR1 in straight line.

NineBallTW > Jayhawk Jake
12/11/2014 at 11:59

Wrong. The Viper did walk the Z06 in 4th and 5th gear. Had nothing to do with shifting, at that point. Here is the driver of the Z06, read it and weep. http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-z06-…

NineBallTW > Illegal Machine
12/11/2014 at 12:02

Jacob needs to watch the Hitler video. He uses almost every excuse within that video, right on cue.

Illegal Machine > NineBallTW
12/11/2014 at 12:29

Nineball? My bro?

Kinja'd!!!

Jayhawk Jake > NineBallTW
12/11/2014 at 12:35

Doesn't change my opinion. Still couldn't care less about a random street race. Even at a drag strip, don't care. It's a track car not a drag car.

Hell, even if the Corvette is slower at a track I'm still picking it over a Viper every single time.

Zoom > 1337HPMustang
12/11/2014 at 13:40

But, heat soak...... ))))

1337HPMustang > Zoom
12/11/2014 at 15:08

that's why you trunk mounted radiators and intercoolers. Who needs a truck anyway if a supercharged 8.3 L v10 is reading you your death sentence? :D

Zoom > 1337HPMustang
12/11/2014 at 15:24

Or twin blowers......