What car would be the worst in the snow?

"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg) 12/03/2014 at 13:44 • Filed to: None

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We've been talking a lot here on Oppo about the best cars for winter, how much winter sucks, how much fun winter is, how it's coming too soon, how it's not coming, what the best winter beaters are, and what the best snow tires are. It's well known that being a low-slung 2WD vehicle does not preclude a vehicle from being a snow car. But some cars just won't go, no matter what you do. So, based on either assumptions or experience, what car cowers in fear at the sight of even a tiny amount of snow? (Cars that are on summer tires don't really count, they won't go through snow regardless of the car.)

MIATAAAA > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 13:45

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Money Hustard > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 13:46

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Any 2WD pickup with a limited slip rear differential. I traded in my 2003 Dodge Dakota V8 with one almost immediately after moving to Vermont.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 13:50

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RWD Astro on all-seasons. You'd think with all that weight over the back wheels it would do fine, but nope. I've been pushing ours up the snowy driveway (and sometimes the street) for as long as I can remember. Should've got AWD.

It could be blamed on the shitty no-name tries that used to be on it. I have yet to test the new Goodyears.

OPPOsaurus WRX > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 13:50

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/thread

The Little Engine That Couldnt > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 13:51

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Ram SRT 10.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 13:53

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Ferrari F12.

Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 13:55

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My Sonoma in 2WD is scary in the snow, in 4WD it is a beast.

Have to think the FR-S/BRZ aren't good.

itschrome > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 13:56

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WORST WINTER CAR I EVER OWNED!!!

1995 DODGE INTREPIDE ON SNOWS AND THE DAMN THING WOULDN'T FIND TRACTION IF THERE WAS EVEN A DUSTING!

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 13:57

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I can think of nothing worse in the snow than a superlight, ridiculously overpowered convertible.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 12/03/2014 at 13:59

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I can speak from fairly direct experience that AWD Astros kick major ass in the snow, even on moderately good all-seasons.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 14:00

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I had one of these. Terrible in the snow. The back end would randomly pull out and try to pass you. Mine was a horrible brown color, but it was two door and had the ever so stylish landau top.

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 14:00

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Although I guess you could stay warm, what with the engine in the passenger compartment and all.

swansong, rockin' the wagons > Money Hustard 12/03/2014 at 14:01

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Wouldn't an open rear diff be worse?
But I definitely agree on pickups being garbage in snow. I'd even say a 4x4 in 2wd mode would be worse due to the higher center of gravity, and the fact that most drivers think they're invincible cuz CHRUUUUUCK and their zero tread mud bog tires.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 14:02

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Reliant Robin? Forward engine weight over undersize front wheel, ensuring it will dig in criminally quickly, will get into a skid easily, will roll under any ensuing naughtiness, and all that's if it somehow manages to get going in the first place.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 12/03/2014 at 14:02

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Also, judging by the way they are driven, Camry/Corrola/Prius.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 12/03/2014 at 14:03

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This has to win.

ntl0505 > OPPOsaurus WRX 12/03/2014 at 14:03

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The car itself or that particular model? Because my buddies Z with snow tires was a monster:

OPPOsaurus WRX > swansong, rockin' the wagons 12/03/2014 at 14:04

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i had a 4x4 Sport Trac. IT was a blast in 2WD. with no weight over the rear end, it didn;t take anything to get sideways. and then when your stuck, just a turn of a knob put it in 4WD. That truck was unstoppable (in a good way) in the snow. I really miss it.

Mercedes Streeter > OPPOsaurus WRX 12/03/2014 at 14:06

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Nice snowplow you got there!!

Not even kidding, there's an idiot in my town with a stanced Lexus IS that he drives in the Winter. He does a better job than the plow drivers!

twochevrons > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 14:07

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My old Rover SD1 was pretty treacherous even in a northern New Zealand winter, which just means loads of rain and temperatures in the 40s. On a wet road, it'd break the rear end loose if you so much as thought about accelerating, but only if you'd actually managed to get the engine to start first – with dodgy electrics and an automatic choke that only worked some of the time (or, alternatively, would get stuck on full-rich), starting it in cold or damp conditions was an exercise in battery longevity.

Its boisterous, stiffly sprung live axle, oversteer-on-demand road manners made it absolutely hilarious to drive once you had a feel for it, but I suspect that in a real snow-and-ice winter, it would try to murder you at every chance it got.

BoulderZ > Money Hustard 12/03/2014 at 14:08

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I dunno, might be multiple factors there. My 2wd open diff pickup was fine in that wet east coast snow, and out here in CO with the much drier/powdery stuff for about 20 years without ever getting stuck. Then I added a turbo and it was not nearly as manageable, requiring the absolute lightest touch on the throttle and clutch. Added a limited slip and it vastly improved. Romping on the throttle still caused wheel spin, albeit two of them. I got better tires and it's quite good in snow now, don't even need to do the sand-bags trick. I bet that V8, in conjunction with the wet packs-slick snow of the NE was an absolute handful to try to keep hooked up, though. What did you get as a replacement? 4x4 pickup, or something completely different? Just curious.

Money Hustard > swansong, rockin' the wagons 12/03/2014 at 14:09

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I'm not an expert in the subject by any means, but an open diff is going to send power to just one wheel at a time, where as an LSD will in many instances apply power through both. When both wheels are spinning on ice or snow you have even less lateral grip and you tend to lose your rear end a lot more easily.

VonBelmont > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 14:12

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As I learned the hard way, getting a ride home from a friend with flurries coming down on a twisty Virginia road. Positively harrowing!

You would think a German car would be nigh invincible in the snow, but I guess they haven't quite learned from WWII in that particular area.

Money Hustard > BoulderZ 12/03/2014 at 14:13

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Yeah, you have more grip in a straight line, but an LSD makes it a lot easier to lose control of the back of your vehicle.

I leased a 2007 Mercury Montego with AWD. A woefully underpowered but in most other ways awesome car. Originally designed by Volvo ford used the platform instead. It sucked way worse than I thought it would.

You have to understand though, I'm a former college offensive linemen and taller than most, so the list of vehicles I fit in is very short. This car was OUTRAGEOUSLY comfortable for someone my size.

OPPOsaurus WRX > ntl0505 12/03/2014 at 14:17

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not that car but the 'stance' style in general, camber, stretched tires... if it cant get over a speedbump, i'm guessing its not going far in the snow

BoulderZ > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 14:18

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Judging from what I see here, the new(er) Camaro seems to have a big problem with even the slightest snow and/or grade. But I'm not going to say it's bad in snow, as I suspect they come with summer-only tires (and really, that's how they should be equipped, owners can get separate snows when/if necessary. I see an awful lot of Jeep products spinning/stuck, but it looks to be more a fault of the owners: TX-or-similar plates, lead feet, lack of skill and/or experience. Used to have to deliver a lot of batteries for Subarus when I worked at NAPA one winter, but that's more about cold than snow and says more about the owners here than about the car. Come to think of it, I'm having trouble thinking of any car here newer than about 15 years that I've seen being truly awful in snow due primarily to the car and not the tires/owner.

Maybe the Prius? By the time you get a tire that can handle their weight and have much tread life at all, they're usually way too hard of a compound for cold and snow and have a hard time accelerating, stopping, or turning even with their relatively narrow width.

OPPOsaurus WRX > Mercedes Streeter 12/03/2014 at 14:22

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i'd think the front cover wouldn't last too long.

BoulderZ > Money Hustard 12/03/2014 at 14:27

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I guess I haven't had too much issue with the loose rear; but I think the combo of turbo (so there's some lag) and the only turns here sharp enough to have that problem are traffic light intersections (no non-negligent way to be going fast enough in snow for that to be a problem) limits how much I'd see with it. Twisty roads back east... I bet that could be a problem. I wonder if it's a difference in the spec'd breakaway torque, too? Mine's aftermarket, TrueTrac, and I don't know how that might compare to the Dakota unit.

Interesting about the Montego! I have no firsthand knowledge about it, and don't see them much here. My sympathies on car fit, I know that's a big pain for a lot of people. I count myself fortunate for that at 5'9", but am still surprised at how tight a lot of older cars are. I can't fit a bare finger between my helmet and the roof in my '78 Z, and the P-cars are only slightly less tight.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Money Hustard 12/03/2014 at 14:57

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I'd say it really comes down to whether you're weight-balanced well. My sister had a turbo Volvo with RWD/LSD, and it did really well in snow without tail-happy behavior. The missing link: not a typical pickup.

TDogg > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 15:42

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Dodge Caliber.

BarryDanger > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 12/03/2014 at 15:42

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244 Turbo - 12lbs of boost, Falken Zeix tires and an open diff LOLGTFO

itschrome > VonBelmont 12/03/2014 at 16:14

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I dunno, I think this might be tires combined with driver skill.. never had a problem with any VW in the deep NE snow...

itschrome > TDogg 12/03/2014 at 16:17

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Every dodge I have ever driven in the snow minus my aries K was awful in snow!

YellowGoat > itschrome 12/03/2014 at 19:28

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I drove a 1999 Concorde in the snow and it was fine except for the ABS not working right and causing me to slide through and intersection.

Laird Andrew Neby Bradleigh > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 11/19/2016 at 17:31

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Worst car I’ve ever driven during a typical Norwegian winter? BMW 528 E28, even with studded tyres it acted like a drunkard on snow.. Fun? Yes.. trustworthy? Nope..

Honeybunchesofgoats > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 11/19/2016 at 17:34

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Well before is was a meme type thing, the first thing I would think of when I thought of Mustangs was spinning out in the snow. I rarely saw anything Cars and Coffee worthy, but I never once saw one take off from a light without some fish tailing.

All of my cars are RWD, and there’s nothing inherently wrong with it in the snow provided you understand how to adjust your driving. My first car was RWD. I had spun a lot , because I was a stupid kid and did not have the slightest understanding about cars . I get the feeling that a lot of Mustang owners have never owned a car with either rear wheel drive or a lot of torque.

Klaus Schmoll > OPPOsaurus WRX 11/19/2016 at 17:37

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Came here to post something similar. Almost knew that someone would beat me to it.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 11/19/2016 at 17:37

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Unless your first and last name is Walter Rorhl, you’re gonna die, no questions asked. An AC Cobra is too obvious of an answer. That being said, one of my friends is apparently gonna buy a ZL1 Camaro as a DD here in Michigan. Bless his soul...

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 11/19/2016 at 17:40

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My e36 would be up there. Zero grip in rain, I darent take it out if it snows.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > BarryDanger 11/19/2016 at 17:42

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I’d still drive it though.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > Honeybunchesofgoats 11/19/2016 at 17:45

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The car I had for my first ever winter driving (in New England, so legit winter) was an ‘88 Mustang GT And it was...shockingly conpetent! 2.73 gears, posi, relatively narrow and deep treaded tires. Sure it lacked ABS and air bags and all that sort of stuff, but it was controllable and had surprising levels of snow traction. It wasn’t great, but it wasn’t nearly as bad as I’d have thought it might be.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > Money Hustard 11/19/2016 at 17:46

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Open diff only does that when one wheel starts slipping. With an lsd, if one wheel starts to slip, it transfers some of that to the other wheel and gives you more stability. You will do better powerslides and they are much more controllable.

I did a rally on ice with an open diff. Going in a straight line in 4th gear, sometimes one wheel would start to spin and the whole car would wobble side to side. Now I have an LSD and it’s much better

loki03xlh > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 11/19/2016 at 17:49

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3rd gen F-bodies suck in snow. Mine would get stuck in a damn parking lot. Lots of times I’d be sitting at a light, let off the brakes, and the ass end would come sliding around before I even touched the gas.

Captain of the Enterprise > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 11/19/2016 at 17:58

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My old 2005 crown Vic which had the open diff and bald tires all the way around and bad suspension and brakes

lone_liberal > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 11/19/2016 at 18:02

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An El Camino or Ranchero. V8 torque and absolutely no weight in the back of an RWD vehicle pus no ground clearance.

V12 Jake- Hittin' Switches > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 11/19/2016 at 18:23

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The S600 is awful...

OPPOsaurus WRX > Klaus Schmoll 11/19/2016 at 18:24

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I was all confused. I didn’t remember posting that, then I saw 2014?!?

Klaus Schmoll > OPPOsaurus WRX 11/19/2016 at 18:32

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How the Fuck did that post jump up two years? Is SM70 that desperate?

Frenchlicker > Mercedes Streeter 11/19/2016 at 19:09

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That’s exactly what I was thinking.

PWRandSPD > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 11/19/2016 at 19:49

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The last line in the blog here is true. I had an STI on the stock summer tires. A dusting came in early fall. The thing could not move on a level driveway. A dusting, not even real snow. Granted, when I put the snow tires on, the thing was a tank and a hoot to drive.

DipodomysDeserti > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 11/19/2016 at 23:41

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My ‘66 GMC longbed with an LSD would be pretty terrible in the snow.

cberg > Money Hustard 11/21/2016 at 00:35

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Same reason my Haldex Volvo has both diffs open & a clutch-type e locker on the center shaft.

cberg > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 11/21/2016 at 00:37

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My mom got an Olds 88 mechanic loaner instead of her Outback when I was a kid and we spun that thing 4x down the street ONE BLOCK from home. It didn’t see any more use until the whole driveway melted.

cberg > itschrome 11/21/2016 at 00:43

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Yeah every Jetta, GTI and Passat I’ve tried was a solid 7/10 on ice. Still nowhere near as good as Saab though.

cberg > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms 11/21/2016 at 00:45

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You really should know how much steering lock those things have. Cop a set of any Nokians or Gislaveds and this becomes damn near unbeatable.

cberg > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms 11/21/2016 at 00:46

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Yeah my buddy just uses his ‘86 with a bunch of flagstone in the back. Works awesome, almost as good as a 240DL. Feels vaguely Jeepish actually.