Oppo, I challenge you...

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390)
11/30/2014 at 17:02 • Filed to: Debate

To argue/debate/convince me that this THING is actually worth something; that it's not terrible rubbish without any bias(or maybe not) compared to a V6 or GT. I have no idea why I felt the urge to post something so idiotic.

DISCUSSION (91)

Michael Maguire > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:06

It beats driving a prius?

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:06

Easy. Give it a couple of months and someone will have released a tune to make it more powerful than the Coyote. Plus, it's already turbo'd so upgrading turbo's will be easier. AND, with this you don't have to get the rental spec poverty package.

bob and john > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:07

the motor itself is a decent engine. I have no problems with it at all.

the fact that its stuffed into a mustang is my issue. its a muscle car FFS. no 4 cylinder belongs in those.

and before you mention the 4-banger fox-body: I have the exact same issue with that car.

I'm annoyed that they more or less force you to "upgrade" to the 4 cylinder. the base V6 has almost no options on it.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:09

Fuel economy. It was built mostly to appeal to the European market. We don't get the V6 here for example.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
11/30/2014 at 17:11

But it's going to be the new rental spec poverty package once the V6 is gone.

Big Bubba Ray > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:11

Are you just posting this because you hate the idea of it in a Mustang? haha

I love the idea of that engine sitting in there.

310 horsepower
320 lb-ft torque
30+ MPG on the highway
Sub 6 second 0-60

Sounds like a good time to me!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > bob and john
11/30/2014 at 17:12

This car is in no way related to an SVO, nor should it have ever been related to it at all. And the V6 optionless cars piss me off too.

PS9 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:12

Worth is relative. Do you want an explanation as to why FoMoCo thinks it's worth something? Because that's easy; On a sheet of paper, it's the same car as the V6, + some MPG (which is good for CAFE and other global equivalents), -some weight.

Do you want an explanation as to why enthusiasts will think it's worth something? Because, again, that's easy; You might be a downpipe and a tune away from legitimately challenging the GT, and you can get a Mustang without spending $40k

Do you want me to explain why you should think it's worth something? Because you don't like snails, and this has a snail, and the other altenative (that is available for now until it is phased out like it or not) does not have a snail. Is it even possible to convince you that this engine is worthy of your time and energy? If not, that's cool. You don't have to buy one with this engine in it, you know...

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:12

Not really. I don't see the V6 going away for a while, due to being cheaper to build and maintain. That is what rental companies want. It also will be easier to adapt the Ecoboost to meet future emissions regulations.

PushToStart > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:14

Well, I'm wondering why you seem to hate it so much.

PS9 > bob and john
11/30/2014 at 17:15

Kinja'd!!!

No options below the V8 = dead muscle car.

bob and john > PS9
11/30/2014 at 17:18

I never said no option below the V8.

no 4 bangers is what I'm saying. V6's or I6s are fine by me

also, the GTO I think had more of a problem with the name and marketing VS it being V8 only. ah well.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
11/30/2014 at 17:20

To meet more stupid regulations. We both know it'll eventually be what the V6 was, because it'll eventually be the base engine.

 V8 Rustler > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:21

It is not worth it, you are adding a lot of complexity to a car well known for its simplicity and reliability. They will disappear in the future years because of the complexity of a turbo, like all of those 80-90 turbo Chsryslers. That and the lame sound of the 4 cylinder. V6 sounds way better. Also I have not seen huge gains from a tune yet.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > PushToStart
11/30/2014 at 17:21

I just can't jump on the praise-bandwagon that that thing has. I don't like the idea of having a RWD pony car that sounds no better than my ST does.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:21

It's worth nothing to me because it's a Mustang. Now, if Chevy puts something similar in the 2016 Camaro (2.5T, 320 horsepower) I'd be all over it. I love the idea of a turbo 4 in these cars. They're moving more towards sports cars and away from muscle cars.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:22

Yes, and hopefully there will be a V6 Ecoboost...

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:24

You know how I feel. If you want to see it again go back to that OppoTalk picture.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > V8 Rustler
11/30/2014 at 17:24

I agree, but Ford has been Ecoboost-ing everything, I fear. I don't think it's going away.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
11/30/2014 at 17:26

That will eventually replace the 5.0L...

Yeah yeah yeah, we know. -_-

PS9 > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
11/30/2014 at 17:26

It's worth nothing to me because it's a Mustang.

SHOTS FUCKING FIRED

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:30

I just see the change to boost like the change to fuel injection. Turbos started out unrefined like early mechanical fuel injection but are getting more advanced like EFI did. With EFI you lost some character admittedly, but you also gained efficiency, power, tunability etc etc.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > PS9
11/30/2014 at 17:35

It's not that I don't like snails! It's something else I really can't explain.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Big Bubba Ray
11/30/2014 at 17:36

I don't hate the idea, it's something else I can't put into words right. But the fact that it's nothing more than a RWD ST in a Mustang body does bother me some.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
11/30/2014 at 17:37

What's wrong with muscle cars? Which the Mustang is not, it's a pony car, and it's different.

PS9 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:37

Stop overthinking it and just get the GT350.

Übel > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:38

So what? That statement is meaningless. They're not going to make the ecoboost worse to fit in the V6 slot, they'll just be making the base model better.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
11/30/2014 at 17:39

So what you're saying, is with everyone moving to turbos, cars are losing their character because of it. Cars are now all becoming the same? I kinda agree with this.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > PS9
11/30/2014 at 17:40

Cannot, nor will I ever be able to afford.

PS9 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:41

Nuh-uhh. You'll get monies for shiny stuffs when you become an engineer, and used GT350s will depreciate just like the previous Shelby's did...

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:42

Not quite. Cars will lose a specific aspect of their character, but gain something else. For example the torque curve might be less linear, but you'll get a better punch of torque lower in the rev range. It's a case of it not being worse, just different.

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:43

I thought I was going to love the 4 cylinder Mustang.

Then I learned it weighs only 173 pounds less than the V8.

What's the point of having a smaller, lighter, forced induction engine if the car isn't any lighter, and you're still making less power?!

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:43

Pony car, muscle car, whatever. They're sports cars now. And not everyone wants a V8. The I4 has more power than the 6. More torque and it's down lower on the rev band. It's just... Better. The only thing that's worse is the noise, and that's whatever.

DoYouEvenShift > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:43

I dont like Mustangs, but I also dont hate them. So consider me unbiased.

Turbo I4 is better than the V6. More HP, more TQ, better mpg when driven normally. Both 4 and 6 cylinders sound awful, but at least you get to enjoy the turbo sound in this case. Maybe Ford will offer performance tunes that retain warranty, like some brands have done.

With that said, if Ford offered the 3.5 TT in this car, then maybe I would agree with you. But thats probably not gonna happen, performance would be too close to the GT.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro
11/30/2014 at 17:46

Silvestro,

Are you telling me something I thought I'd never hear YOU say?

Would you rather have a V6?

PS9 > Brian Silvestro
11/30/2014 at 17:47

What's the point of having a smaller, lighter, forced induction engine if the car isn't any lighter, and you're still making less power?!

About $10k or so.

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:48

FUCK NO WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU

Also, why are you surprised to hear me say I want the more capable car?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DoYouEvenShift
11/30/2014 at 17:49

I talked to a friend at Ford, the 3.5 Ecoboost wouldn't work right now because it doesn't fit, and it would overheat. But performance would be an issue too.

Brian Silvestro > PS9
11/30/2014 at 17:50

$7k actually. But you make a valid point.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
11/30/2014 at 17:50

A noise that sounds like a cheaper hot hatch. That actually is a cheaper hot hatch. I know that no one cares about that other than me.

bhardoin > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:51

Suppose Toyota made a new AE86 with 300 hp turbo four, relatively cheap, pretty quick. It's awesome. Slap a Ford badge on it and somehow everyone hates it. I don't really get what's not to love. I wouldn't call it a muscle car, but its still badass.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
11/30/2014 at 17:51

They gain the same thing every other car has or will soon have, they'll all be the same. Clones of one another, all with Turbo-4s.

Kanaric > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:52

"But the fact that it's nothing more than a RWD ST in a Mustang body does bother me some."

lol wut? It's not even the same engine, it's 2.3 liter and makes over 300hp. What does that have to do with the 2.0l FWD ST? Also what is bad about the ST?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > PS9
11/30/2014 at 17:52

If I ever make it that far.

Kanaric > Brian Silvestro
11/30/2014 at 17:53

The point is that it costs less money. If you have V8 Mustang money you don't buy this.

Brian Silvestro > Kanaric
11/30/2014 at 17:53

THE V6 NEEDS TO DIE

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro
11/30/2014 at 17:53

Well, I figured you'd jump on the "K-Roll is a stubborn fool" bandwagon and say what everyone else is telling me.

Kanaric > DoYouEvenShift
11/30/2014 at 17:54

lol 4 and 6 cylinders sound awful? 'murican?

Kanaric > bhardoin
11/30/2014 at 17:54

Yes, I agree, it's seriously silly thinking.

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:55

Well most of the time you are. But a turbo-4 sports coupe shouldn't weight 3532 pounds. At least, not the type I'd ever consider buying.

Kaizer Soze > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:55

Times change, its got a fuck load of power even compared to even the last generation V8, with half the cylinders. That means better fuel economy and better emissions. Justify to me why there should be a gas guzzling V8 in a two door sedan at all, especially with ever-constraining CAFE standards.

I say we should drop the V8 for the EcoBoost V6 altogether. In my mind if they offer a V8 it should be making hellcat numbers.

We need to stop looking to the past and embrace the future. The future brings wonderful things.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Kanaric
11/30/2014 at 17:56

Same thing: .3L increase in displacement, longitudinally mounted, same thing.

Ignorance aside, it sounds like an ST, ST's can be made to be fast, and faster than it, I don't like that. I said nothing bad about the ST at all, where'd you get that from?

DoYouEvenShift > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:57

That makes sense then. A turbo I4 fits fine in there just fine I guess. I havent had a look under the hood of a 15 yet. But I figured it may fit in the previous gen, they seem to have quite a bit of room.

Cadillac fit a TT V6 in the ATS, but apples to oranges.

Übel > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:57

You mean other than the different engine, increased horsepower, completely different platform, and entirely different mechanicals? Based on that logic, the ST is just a FWD Golf R with a Ford badge.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:58

That's a strange thing to say because cars always have things in common. Cars will always have different engine configurations they just all take a step down. V8 to turbo V6, V6 to 4 etc. Even the 500 has a turbo 2 cylinder available in place of a small 4 cylinder. It doesnt eliminate diversity at all, you'll still have many different engines, it's just different to how it is now.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Brian Silvestro
11/30/2014 at 17:59

Yes, yes to all of that, but it doesn't answer my question.

Would you take a V6 over it?

PushToStart > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 17:59

The people that are praising it have driven it, so I imagine that it's probably a really great driving car, and at the end of the day, that's what counts. Maybe it's not a "Mustang" in the traditional sense (not a typical muscle car) but if it's good to drive, that's ultimately what matters.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Kaizer Soze
11/30/2014 at 18:00

Embrace a future of synonymous turbocharged cars.... -_-

Also, it's not a sedan...

Brian Silvestro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 18:01

I'm not sure you read my first reply closely enough. But that's okay, I'll quote it for you:

FUCK NO WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU

Kanaric > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 18:03

it seems be kind of implied. You are saying it's like a ST like its a bad thing "nothing more than a RWD ST", when in reality it's nothing like an ST due to the chassis alone. It's making the same power as like a 1990s supra with a turbocharged engine for like $26k and is RWD. It's a car that people who like imports have been hoping Nissan, Toyota, or Mazda bene making for years, except Ford is making it now.

In fact Ford has stolen a lot of import fans with their lineup. They are producing all the cars that companies like Nissan used to make. This turbo Mustang is just another notch on that belt.

Saying this is like a ST is like saying a 1992 Maxima is the same thing as a 300zx.

Kanaric > Brian Silvestro
11/30/2014 at 18:04

not saying the V6, talking about the 4.

Kanaric > Brian Silvestro
11/30/2014 at 18:05

Sadly this is the era we're in now. Nobody is making any car like this at 3000lbs or less. 3500lbs is the new 3000lbs. Look at the Germans all of them are making cars like this now. So is GM with the ATS.

Pretty much if you want to go back to those days you need to buy a 90s car like a Silvia or something.

Wouldn't be surprised if when this Mustang is eventually refreshed the V8 might be 4000lbs like the Camaro is.

DoYouEvenShift > Kanaric
11/30/2014 at 18:06

Very American here sir. Muscle cars, guns, and trucks to prove it! Very healthy and in shape though, so the stereotype falls short there haha.

Anyways, yes NA 4-6 engines sound awful in my opinion. Throw a turbo or two in there and I'll allow it.

lone_liberal > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 18:07

While I don't know that it's rubbish I certainly wouldn't get it if I was buying a Mustang. Give me that sweet, sweet V8 sound every time.

Brian Silvestro > Kanaric
11/30/2014 at 18:09

That makes me very sad. Very, very sad.

promoted by the color red > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 18:11

Sports cars have adapted to and evolved with the times. They will never be Camrys nor Accords. Enthusiasts fell in love with the Miata with its EFI, airbags, ABS, and inability to catch fire and we're still in love.

Plus it's not like your average car company can afford to make an engine only for the performance line. No way they could afford that. The Toyota Supra's twin-turbo mill was offered with the Japanese Lexus GS and the Dodge Viper's V10 engine is nothing more than a Dodge Ram engine made in aluminium.

Kanaric > Brian Silvestro
11/30/2014 at 18:11

Me as well. I bought a RWD Skyline to get the car I really wanted. 2800lbs 220hp easily tunable I6. Nonexistent now.

I hold out hope for the next gen Nissan Z but I doubt Nissan is going to downsize that car. I was excited for that Kia, of all companies, their 2800lb 300hp concept. Unfortunately no news on it since.

Bought a Mustang GT myself for my daily. I am pro turbo-4 Mustang but I couldn't see myself buying it.

Brian Silvestro > Kanaric
11/30/2014 at 18:12

I LOVE the looks of the current Nismo Z, but it's just so heavy. And it'll only get heavier in the future. Skylines4life!

Kaizer Soze > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 18:15

It really is a pony car but its a sedan too.

I'm not quite sure how all turboed cars are synonymous. Yes, they have no real engine note but the power and fuel economy tradeoffs make it worth it by far.

Jayhawk Jake > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 18:18

Doesn't it have more power and torque than the V6? Probably gets better gas mileage too. Oh, and give some shots a few weeks/months and I bet it's a click away from gobs of power.

The V6 is the worthless engine of the lineup, not the Eco-boost. Can you give me any reason it isn't worth something, that it isn't 'terrible rubbish', without some kind of bias?

Jayhawk Jake > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 18:19

Your point? The V8 is available in rental cars too, does that mean it's bad?

Jayhawk Jake > V8 Rustler
11/30/2014 at 18:24

Turbos aren't really that much more complicated than a modern fuel injected engine is. I mean hell, there are V8 engines that can shut off cylinders and run as a 4 cylinder, do you really think that's super simple compared to a 4 cylinder with some turbos?

Disregarding a modern turbo because of turbos from 20+ years ago is like saying cell phones are pointless because the Motorola Star-Tac couldn't text message.

Re the sound: I prefer turbo-4s with proper exhausts and intakes to V6s. Especially with audible blowoff, that just makes it more interesting.

Jayhawk Jake > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
11/30/2014 at 18:26

Best answer. The engine is fine, the Mustang is not

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Brian Silvestro
11/30/2014 at 18:26

I thought the next gen Z is supposed to get smaller?

Brian Silvestro > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
11/30/2014 at 18:28

I have no idea, is it?

Jayhawk Jake > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
11/30/2014 at 18:28

I really don't understand your 'synonymous cars' bit. It's not like the Mustang is the only car with a V8.

I don't see the V8 going anywhere BTW, it's as much a part of the Mustang as the Mustang logo. However if Ford is going to keep making the V8 they'll beed engines like the Ecoboost to meet CAFE regulations

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Brian Silvestro
11/30/2014 at 18:34

According to Patrick, yes. http://jalopnik.com/the-next-nissa…

Brian Silvestro > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
11/30/2014 at 18:35

We haven't heard shit about that little car in forever though

 V8 Rustler > Jayhawk Jake
11/30/2014 at 18:35

You are right, modern engines are very complicated. Hell, the Coyote is a quad cam with some very complicated VVT. But with a turbo you add another mechanical thing to a yet very complicated engine. Turbos are expensive and have a limited life, can't deny that.

The StarTac was cool as hell.

Kinja'd!!!