Sometimes Less Is More

"Torque Affair" (torqueaffair)
11/29/2014 at 13:12 • Filed to: BMW, M3, M6

Did I hear that someone is looking to buy a car? Yes?

Count me in.

I love it when people I know are shopping around for a car. That means I can tag along, provide unsolicited advice and help them buy a car that is completely impractical, terrible on gas mileage and not a car they should consider buying for daily use.

That's why when our thoughts align (myself and the car-purchaser), it makes for some excellent test driving experiences.

Take this M6 for example...

This was a 2010 M6 with 44K miles on it retailing for $42K.

We also drove this 2008 M3 with 42k miles selling for $34K. It was a hard-top convertible as well which we didn't take advantage of. We didn't have enough time to test it out.

I prefer the looks of the M3 over the M6.

The M6 just resembles a tired whale with droopy eyes - the M3 on the other hand is much sleeker and sportier.

The interior for both cars were similar. It's hard not to be impressed by the build quality of the interior of both the Ms. Even for the 6 year old M3, there wasn't really any rattling to speak of. Everything was put together very well.

Because we were running short on time, we couldn't drive either car as long as we would've wanted. But right away, the M6 didn't strike us as being all that impressive. With a 500 hp V10, you would think that we would be blown away. But we weren't.

Oh wait... we didn't push the "M" button .

No wonder! We were only driving with 400 horses instead of all 500. Actually, even with all the power enabled, the car just didn't have the "oomph" that we were expecting. Maybe it was because there were too many of us in the car. Or maybe it was because of the giant burritos we ate that day for lunch weighing the car down.

Regardless, the M3 actually seemed much more like a driver's car; it was lighter and more agile. I didn't think I would like the DCT as much as I did but it shifted so quickly and effortlessly that I think I prefer it over the manual - at least when it comes to the M3.

Out on a track, I can see the DCT making a track day much more enjoyable. If you like to occasionally go to the track like myself (and by occasional I mean going once every 2 years), then a DCT would be preferable. When you're headed into a turn at 80 mph, it would be much easier to concentrate on not crashing the car, than have to worry about a third pedal and shifting a lever. That's just too much thinking.

The best thing about the M3 was its 4.0L V8. Not only do the V8s have the low-end grunt and the rumble that the V10s lack, the M3 exhaust note was much more audible than the M6.

Revving the V8 past 7000 rpms emanated a sound that was to die for. Downshifting with the DCT was awesome since you could hear the quick rev-matching blips in the throttle.

It seemed like with the M6, there was way too much emphasis on luxury which meant that the car was too quiet. With the windows rolled up I could hardly hear the V10 until we were in the higher RPMs. But even then, the sound was too muted.

It's a shame that when you're driving the M6, you don't think you have a 500 hp V10 under the hood.

So, even though the M3 is less expensive brand new, has less cylinders, less power, and a tad less luxurious, it is actually a better car than the M6.

The BMW M3 is actually so impressive that it's hard to believe you can get a car like this in the low $30K price range. Depreciation is the best...well, it depends on which side of it you're on.

My buddy (who is the reason that we went to drive these beasts in the first place), liked the E92 M3 so much that he will most likely buy the car. I only hope that I can get to drive it every once in a while.

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DISCUSSION (100)

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 13:15

If you really want that V10 to sing, it has to be pushed. At idle, it sounds, I daresay, like a diesel.

Torque Affair > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
11/29/2014 at 13:17

Yeah that's true - also I think it sounds much better from outside the car than inside where you can hardly hear it.

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
11/29/2014 at 13:39

An angry, caged diesel, but I agree.

Arben72 > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 14:57

Make sure he drives the coupe and sedan too, as the convertible has a really noticeable heft to it. Dat roof down driving experience though. Turn off traction control and dct gains another shift speed selector which will kick you in the ass and chirp the tires every time. If he ends up getting the car make sure he gets it updated to 240e if it isn't already, and gets a different air filter to remove the charcoal filter the 08s have. Both of those will gain a respectable amount of induction noise (from the filter) and depending how old his software is 1-3mpg and 15ish whp with just the software update alone.

EleventhFromHeaven > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 15:25

Make sure you drive the manual coupes as well. Before buying a car, you might think you'll be doing at least 10 track days every year, but then reality strikes and you end up lucky if you can go once or twice a year. Also note that Car and Driver didn't find the dct in their m3 very responsive on the track. I'd suggest test driving the m3 DCT on a track first.

GoKart_MoZart > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 15:26

Ask the GM of the service center which one is least likely to come back. And that M6 is the shit. Make it a Great Day.

toecutter (so grey, I gotta wear shades) > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 15:33

That's why the windows roll down.

bobrayner > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 15:34

Emphasising things like RPM and power-to-weight is great on the track. Emphasising things like luxury, that's great for driving on real roads with traffic and distractions and stress.

What is this car going to be used for? If all you care about is lap times, then buy an M3. Oh, no, wait, you can cut another minute off your lap time if you buy some Caterfield that cuts out even more luxuries. Or buy a Hayabusa.

But if this car is going to drive to the office every day, and maybe pick up some groceries on the way home, or get the kids from school, then comfort actually matters. Shaving 0.1s off your 0-60 time doesn't make a difference when you're stuck in traffic.

4x4AZ > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 15:37

Thank you! Someone gets it. manual isn't the always-better-without-any-possible-drawbacks option everyone here thinks it is.

siememe > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 15:43

Although I wish the e9* m3 was about 300 lbs lighter I still love it .. but only in coupe or sedan. the Convertible is truly awful in comparison. Like it was designed for trophy wife. Much, slower than the other two and off balance.

HemiJKU > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 15:53

Yeah I agree completely, a buddy of mine has a convertible and it sounds MUCH better with the top down.

VasyaKurolesov > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 16:04

not much into mustachioed cars

Kinja'd!!!

Rawbar > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 16:17

I have my e46 m3 hardtop vert posted for sale with the intent of replacing it with a 2008 M6 vert. Though the (lack of) gas mileage scares me a bit.

9brghtn4 > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 16:37

An exhaust for the M6 solves it all. Both in sound and low-end torque (better headers increase low rpms torque, amirite?).

GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 16:39

When you're headed into a turn at 80 mph, it would be much easier to concentrate on not crashing the car, than have to worry about a third pedal and shifting a lever. That's just too much thinking.

That's the same way I feel about my E46. Occasionally on spirited drives I have had the same thought but at least with my car I feel as though if I got some more advanced driver training it wouldn't be an issue. It kinda makes me understand why the CSL was only offered with the SMG though.

9brghtn4 > 4x4AZ
11/29/2014 at 16:41

WWWRRRROOOOONNNNNGGGGG!!!!!!!

9brghtn4 > siememe
11/29/2014 at 16:44

"Designed for trophy wife", that's funny because GTA V and Sentinel Cabrio and Amanda.

Mikeypbeezy > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 16:55

I totally disagree. an M6 IMO is just a better car. Buy an m6, throw a set of straight pipes on or a meisterschaft gt2. Go flat out through a tunnel. Priceless.

Mr Ordinary > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
11/29/2014 at 17:02

Completely agree. I've stood outside a few and they sounds clattery.

A full chat though they sound fabulous particularly with an after market exhaust.

jeebus > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 17:10

I bought a competition pack M3 sedan with a DCT a few months ago because I fell in love with it after driving it....and I've owned 18 cars with manual transmissions and 2 with autos so I was very surprised I chose not to have a third pedal this time around.

jalop1991 > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 17:38

The hardest thing to do is to make the right fit happen. Too many people jump on the numbers—MOAR IS BETTER—and a few days later come to regret not taking the time to make the right fit.

(Come to think about it, it's kinda like marriage...yeah, she looked great on the pole, but always remember the cardinal rule: never stick your dick in crazy. Cars are the same way.)

20394089234089234 > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 17:38

I must be weird, but I love the looks of the M6 but feel really indifferent towards the M3. The E93 just looks really dull in my eyes, unlike both newer and older 3-series.

Eyemightbewrong > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 17:45

A third pedal and shifting a lever is too much thinking? God help you, sir.

samssun > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 17:46

What made me do a double take was the price differential. 34 vs 42k, so the 6 figure M6 is only 8k more than a 2 year older M3.

Brett C. Willis > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 17:46

Start working at home with Google! It's by-far the best job I've had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this - 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringing home at least $77 per hour. I work through this link, go to tech tab for work detail

———————————> http://www.jobs700.com

Torque Affair > samssun
11/29/2014 at 17:48

Oh yea...the M6 depreciates way quicker.

Torque Affair > 20394089234089234
11/29/2014 at 17:52

Yeah, it's more of a "love it" or "hate it" type of look

Torque Affair > jalop1991
11/29/2014 at 17:57

Hahaha

Torque Affair > jeebus
11/29/2014 at 17:58

Awesome - have you tracked your M3?

Torque Affair > GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo
11/29/2014 at 18:02

Yeah, to really attack the corners and exit out of them correctly you need to be pretty good at heel-to-toe to rev match. I can do it on regular roads but doing that on a track is a whole different thing.

Torque Affair > 9brghtn4
11/29/2014 at 18:02

Good point. I don't think I've ever seen or heard a modified M6...should look one up on youtube.

Torque Affair > Rawbar
11/29/2014 at 18:05

The mileage is actually terrible on both. I think on the M3 it displayed 11.7 mpg on the dash!

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 18:05

You just described my day today. http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/got-done-looki…

Torque Affair > HemiJKU
11/29/2014 at 18:06

Makes me wish we had driven with the top down!

Torque Affair > 4x4AZ
11/29/2014 at 18:09

Totally...if you get a ton of practice out at the track then a manual is fine, but if you don't go that much then it can take away from some of the enjoyment of racing your car.

Torque Affair > siememe
11/29/2014 at 18:10

That's a good point - wish we had driven a hardtop instead. Probably would've felt a little quicker.

Torque Affair > Arben72
11/29/2014 at 18:14

Thanks for the info. Will let him know!

Torque Affair > EleventhFromHeaven
11/29/2014 at 18:15

Yeah I think he wants to give the manual a shot. I'd want to drive one too to compare the experiences.

Torque Affair > sm70- why not Duesenberg?
11/29/2014 at 18:19

That's awesome! I do like the looks of the M5 a lot more than the M6.

GewoW > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 18:37

e93* ;)

And I agree :)

However an exhaust changes everything.

Art > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 18:48

I was looking to buy a Boss 302 yet its cheaper go buy a used M3 go figure. I like both cars but I think I will be getting the Boss instead. I am not too sure buying a used M3 is a good idea in terms of how expensive they are to fix.

John > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 19:08

Great choice on the E9x M3. Best all around car money can buy at the moment, especially the sedan version. Love mine. They just stopped building those and they already started to develop a cult following.

Dr. Strangegun > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
11/29/2014 at 19:26

That's partly... well, mostly to do with the basic structure of engines.

All V10s are cross-plane, there's a firing event on each bank every other time. LRLRLRLRLR.

It's very likely the V8s are cross-plane, like almost every other street V8 on the planet. With duals, a cross-plane V8 does some firing that's not nominal for power... there's always a time when two cylinders fire on the same bank. All cross-plane V8s have an exhaust series that goes like this: LRLLRLRRLRLLRLRRLRLLRLRRLRLLRLRR

That LL and RR are what makes that distinctive V8 rumble.

jeebus > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 19:39

Haven't tracked this one yet. Soon. Holidays have made weekends pretty much useless for car stuffs. The DCT is a great trans and I don't feel any less manly for owning it. That said, I still enjoy driving my other cars (which are manual). DCT gives you a one-up in the speed dept but loses a point in feel by not having a clutch to manipulate. And no matter how good the computers are (they are damn good), there are still times when a human is superior at judging clutch engagement points, etc.

Etta G. Oglesby > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 19:40

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Chris Hadley > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 20:03

M3 for the win

Jack Does Cars > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 20:22

I love depreciation so much, that I even wrote a thing about it: http://jackdoescars.wordpress.com/2014/10/25/why…

Andrew T. Maness > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 20:54

unsolicited advice is the best kind of advice.

Really want an E90 slick stop 6spd without nav for my next car.

Unbearable Pain > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 21:00

All I want is a cheap car to learn manual on...

Sadly, there's nothing semi-decent that's under $4k...

College probs.

Kyree S. Williams > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 21:16

I'd love to say that I'd pick the M3—I really would—but something about a powerful (if not particularly exhilarating) grand tourer really does it for me. So I'd probably go with the M6, and then resign to blowing all of my retirement fund on maintaining and repairing it.

I love big coupes, and I cannot lie.

Thomas L. Stapleton > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 21:58

———————————> http://www.jobs700.com

Torque Affair > Kyree S. Williams
11/29/2014 at 22:12

Definitely - the M6 has its fan base for sure.

Torque Affair > Unbearable Pain
11/29/2014 at 22:13

Learning stick on a cheap underpowered car is the best way to go. Good luck in your search!

Torque Affair > Andrew T. Maness
11/29/2014 at 22:14

haha...the manual M3s are surprisingly hard to find!

Torque Affair > Jack Does Cars
11/29/2014 at 22:16

That's awesome ...the only thing you have to watch out for maintenance. It can totally screw you over if you're not careful.

Torque Affair > John
11/29/2014 at 22:16

I bet...what year is yours?

Torque Affair > Art
11/29/2014 at 22:17

I think you're right...the Boss 302 should be cheaper to fix...especially replacing tires and brakes after a hard run at the track.

Treemendous > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 22:27

I respect what you're doing. Whenever someone is shopping for a car, I always suggest, unsolicited of course, that they buy an NSX; regardless of their actual car needs. Emphasizing that its trunk will hold golf clubs and that is has Honda reliability. My success rate is 0%, but I'm undeterred.

Torque Affair > Treemendous
11/29/2014 at 22:35

What a great suggestion! One of these days someone will go with your recommendation and it will feel awesome.

seoultrain > Unbearable Pain
11/29/2014 at 22:44

Plenty of Miatas under $4k

Treemendous > Torque Affair
11/29/2014 at 22:44

It would feel awesome. Ideally I'd have the money to go with my own suggestion, but until then...

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Unbearable Pain
11/29/2014 at 22:53

Interesting stuff is out there. Back when I was in college in 2007 I bought an old Lexus ES300 with a stick to learn on that had decent power and features for $6k. Have to imagine those cant be more than $4k now.

Torque Affair > Treemendous
11/29/2014 at 23:35

hah, yeah I'm in the same boat!

Magic Beef Cruiser GT > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 00:20

What the heck did Bangle do to these cars? It's like they were young perfect cigarette cartridge and then he made them like video game cars. How could such a man beset the record upon himself to drive one of these machinations? Unholy night, beyond thee!

Magic Beef Cruiser GT > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
11/30/2014 at 00:20

Hey. Diesels make great torque, also they come in nice tractor for pullin' the land. So if you ever want to set foot in Texas again, Beware My Chopper! Comin' for youbecasue you disparage the diesel engine of our time

Magic Beef Cruiser GT > GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo
11/30/2014 at 00:21

It sounds a lot better with the external transmission - Let's say you just had a birthday party, Now come your friend in her little Cadillac, Come along side, Hear your external transmission - More cake for you later, littleboy!

Magic Beef Cruiser GT > Andrew T. Maness
11/30/2014 at 00:22

You just described my perfect day. I like Volvos the best because they have minimalist swedish design.

66ChevelleSS > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
11/30/2014 at 00:56

There are some after market exhausts for that engine that make it sound truly epic. Maybe a bit much for a daily driver, but it would be hard to resist.

JStaton > Art
11/30/2014 at 01:50

Let me chime in by saying that you have much better aftermarket support with the Boss. Not as refined as the M3, obviously, but a hell of a car. I have 15k miles on mine, and aside from a bad pinion flange and seal early on, no problems yet. Some third gear issues at high revs, but a short throw shifter sorted it out. A lot of the mods to the Boss I can do myself, don't really know about how I feel about mods on an M3. Road noise is an issue though... but I just turn the radio up on the highway hah

Mary I. Anderson > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 03:05

———————————> http://www.jobs700.com

Pvrkcr > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 03:26

From the title, i thought this was obvious. I mean i believe most will agree that the e30 m3 is much more "HUZZAH" than any of its successors. Same for the m5 and m6.

Art > JStaton
11/30/2014 at 03:54

I am just waiting until they Shelby GT350 comes out and see how low the Boss 302 drops in value. I am in no rush since I already own a 2011 Mustang GT so I am very happy with it at the moment but I still want a Boss. So it all depends how long I can wait or whenever I find a good deal on a Boss. I saw this 2012 Boss 302 for 33k at CarMax the problem was that it was Blue and white. I like the orange and red 2012, and the yellow and grabber blue 2013.

Rx_37 > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 05:37

I wouldn't mind having an E92 M3, if it weren't for the "He's got a flashy BMW, he's a complete douche" mentality.

Even tho not everyone thinks like this, i still would know it myself and i couldn't live with that. It's a shame.

djb215 > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 06:50

Sometimes less is more... this looks like a decent deal atm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2616813134…

Mike C > Unbearable Pain
11/30/2014 at 07:39

Stay diligent. I was looking daily on eBay and Craigslist and it took me 6 mos to find something that wasn't a complete shit box. Wound up with an awesome 2001 Corolla 5 speed for 3k and only 78k miles and in great shape. Stuff is out there!

GearHeadfromBrazil > Unbearable Pain
11/30/2014 at 07:51

just rent a car and call a friend who knows how to do it. In one day you'll learn the basics.

Torque Affair > Rx_37
11/30/2014 at 09:09

If you really like the car you should get it! People will always have some sort of opinion no matter what you drive...

ThatbastardKurtis > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 09:18

If he wants an M3, he needs to get the e92 coupe, not the e93 hardtop convertible. The coupe weighs a lot less. And because, carbon fiber roof (they did come without it as well).

Torque Affair > ThatbastardKurtis
11/30/2014 at 09:25

You're right..the convertible was the only one they and available but the coupe would be the one to get.

ThatbastardKurtis > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 09:47

M5 as well. I like the E92 M3 and E60/63 M5/M6, but it seems like the pinnacle or sweet spot for the M Division was the e46 M3 and e39 M5. But, this will be like arguing which Jordans were the best...

ThatbastardKurtis > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 09:54

I also know of someone who only gets manuals, and has had 2 e46 M3s, and was looking at the e92 M3 a few yrs back. He had said that the reason why he gets manuals is that they are way less expensive to fix than a SMG, and chances are that would go for manual vs. DCT. If your friend checks bimmerpost and asks the guys who track the M3 with the DCT, I think they have complaints about it.

Torque Affair > ThatbastardKurtis
11/30/2014 at 09:58

Ah, thanks for the tip. I'll let him know - I don't think he has plans to track the car so he may opt for the manual anyway.

Torque Affair > ThatbastardKurtis
11/30/2014 at 09:59

Haha...surprisingly I haven't driven the E46 M3 although I really want to. I love the E39 M5 has well but it's hard to find one used that's in good condition.

ThatbastardKurtis > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 10:12

The e46 M3 (or rather the M3 in general) will be the car that in the future a Magnus Walker type will turn the car into far more than a cult symbol, but what M Division was all about. That, the first M5 and the e39 M5. They hit all the right spots—-Car enthusiast's erogenous zones.

Jonathan Harper > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 10:52

Not only do the V8s have the low-end grunt and the rumble that the V10s lack

Neither the V8 or V10 have much low end torque worth noting. Plus, the V10 has almost 100 lb-ft more of it more than the V8 (380 vs 295).

Rockchops > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 10:53

make sure you have a towel handy

Jonathan Harper > 4x4AZ
11/30/2014 at 10:54

You shouldn't be on track if that's too much thinking for you. Going to the race track is about learning to control your car and drive it quickly, if you can't master the basics then you have no business being there in the first place.

Jonathan Harper > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 10:57

I disagree. If 500-hp is too much for you on track, then start with lower horsepower, and completely manual controls. You master the basics there in something like a Mazda Miata, then when you are in the situation with more power and a car that is more of a handful, you are much better prepared than you would be just jumping right in to a track day with an "easier" car to drive but with more horsepower than you know how to exploit.

Jonathan Harper > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 11:00

There's one with an aftermarket exhaust in my neighborhood and I can always hear it coming. Low hollow sound normally, unless he's on the throttle in which case it really shrieks.

Jonathan Harper > Rawbar
11/30/2014 at 11:21

Expect sub 10 mpg returns.

R W > 4x4AZ
11/30/2014 at 11:43

you own a truck.

your opinion is invalid forever.

JStaton > Art
11/30/2014 at 12:06

Hopefully it doesn't drop in price too much :p

FastAndLight > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 12:24

All I can say is, Duh. This is obvious to anyone with a little knowledge of the BMW product line. The e90 M3 is an outstanding car, but don't saddle it with the weight of the convertible top.

jasonbo > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 12:27

Just wait till next year. There were a record number of leases 5 years ago and when they hit the market there will be a implosion of prices due to so much stock.

dollabillyall > Jonathan Harper
11/30/2014 at 12:28

"Too much thinking" and "lack of time to practice because real world" are two very different things.

I'll be a manual driver 'til the day I die, but you really need to get off your high horse.

FastAndLight > Unbearable Pain
11/30/2014 at 12:30

E30 BMW. (82 - 91 BMW 3 Series, 318 or 325). http://www.autotempest.com/ .

Problem solved.

Torque Affair > jasonbo
11/30/2014 at 12:50

Good point! Will need to keep my eye out for them...

bimmerbenz1 > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
11/30/2014 at 13:04

And slap and exhaust system on that puppy, give it some more breathing room from intake to exhaust and a quick little tune and you will be amazed how that car will rip. This is some bullshit in this article.

bimmerbenz1 > Torque Affair
11/30/2014 at 13:06

Enough said. Wrong you are sir.

Jonathan Harper > dollabillyall
11/30/2014 at 13:31

It's not being on a high horse, it's caring about safety. And going fast safely. Track days are not for driving a car faster than you're capable of, they're for getting good at driving fast in a safe environment.